Maguire to Man Utd / Man City

[Dahnsouff]

Just now, KFS said:

It only males things difficult if we don’t go on to success this season. Keep our best players and get into Europe, the whole world would agree we did the right thing. Keep our players and cock it up, ending up in 9th, then we’ll have a hard time with future player attraction. 

 

We’ve been a path to the England team recently, so you’ve seen a lot of exciting English youngsters join. Go on and do something big this season and we start writing additional narrative as to why we’re a good fit for any aspiring top players.

 

We need to do well this year for many reasons.

I would say a definitive maybe to that 

One season does not make you eat at the top table (As we know too well)

We would need to be a continuous top 4-6 player to make that happen

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, Mehrez said:

I get the point he is making and somewhat agree but I think the ambition is for us not to not be a stepping stone, it’s not written anywhere that those 6 clubs have a divine right to always be in their current position and it’s not unthinkable that they can be replaced, selling our best players every season goes against that and means we won’t ever consistently fulfil the ambition that we have 

Although I don`t disagree, see my recent response to @KFS

[LinekersApples]

When he scores the winner at Wembley in the Sherpa Van reincarnation for the U23s against Bristol Rovers, the world will take note.

[Xen]

3 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Excellent post (in my opinion) on Red Cafe

 

 

This to me is the crux of the issue. Making a stand on Harry, could very impact the attractiveness of the club to other potential suitors. I agree we should get the best possible price were he to leave, but it should not be treated in pure isolation of other factors that progress the club.

 

Would have replied, but my ridiculous 3 posts a day limit has been met.

I think if we were consistently being obstructive to players careers unjustly then this argument would have some weight, but we're not. 

 

 

Mahrez was the only player we obstructed from a move, but that had extenuating factors to it. He was arguably one of the best players in the league and our valuation reflected that - but the offers didnt. His behaviour and Man City's low offers riled us and made us unwilling to sell (which would thereby set a precedent for future transfers). 

 

Harry's situation is completely different. Firstly, he hasn't handed in a transfer request so we're not blocking anything at all - if he did then we may well be more open to discussions. The market has exploded and he's one of our key players, so with that in mind the valuation makes sense (although of course it's on the high side - we'd be naive if it wasnt). And finally, we're potentially on the cusp of one of the most pivotal seasons in the club's history. If we fail (or are in the process of missing out, come January) then we'll be more receptive rather than reluctant to sell. And don't forget, HM signed a 5-year contract last summer despite heavy interest from Man Utd, so he was well aware of the situation and seemingly happy to commit.

 

We've made our position clear from the get go and said if another club matches our valuation (high but managable for the mega-rich clubs) then we'll sell, no argument. That doesn't sound like a club unwilling to allow players to develop.

 

[Dahnsouff]

8 minutes ago, Xen said:

I think if we were consistently being obstructive to players careers unjustly then this argument would have some weight, but we're not. 

 

 

Mahrez was the only player we obstructed from a move, but that had extenuating factors to it. He was arguably one of the best players in the league and our valuation reflected that - but the offers didnt. His behaviour and Man City's low offers riled us and made us unwilling to sell (which would thereby set a precedent for future transfers). 

 

Harry's situation is completely different. Firstly, he hasn't handed in a transfer request so we're not blocking anything at all - if he did then we may well be more open to discussions. The market has exploded and he's one of our key players, so with that in mind the valuation makes sense (although of course it's on the high side - we'd be naive if it wasnt). And finally, we're potentially on the cusp of one of the most pivotal seasons in the club's history. If we fail (or are in the process of missing out, come January) then we'll be more receptive rather than reluctant to sell. And don't forget, HM signed a 5-year contract last summer despite heavy interest from Man Utd, so he was well aware of the situation and seemingly happy to commit.

 

We've made our position clear from the get go and said if another club matches our valuation (high but managable for the mega-rich clubs) then we'll sell, no argument. That doesn't sound like a club unwilling to allow players to develop.

 

I get what you are saying and tend to agree.

Are we blocking him? No, not really, because as you say a price we have set is there if anyone wants to take him.

My concern here is that people feel this season will in some way define us as a club, and whilst I agree with @Babylon's point that this season represents a rare opportunity to progress to top 6 due to many factors, both external (State of some top 6 teams) and internal (Vardy is actually not immortal, high potential players like Chilwell, etc may get itchy feet) it is just as important to preserve the longer term aim's of the club, keep progressing the team, and this can only be done when the club is held in such a light.

That light demonstrating to potential transfers that coming to Leicester is a great opportunity to progress your career.

Even if we got top 4 this season, we won`t automatically become a top 4 club, we know this better than most after all. We are a progressive team, and this more than most things is critical to preserve.

Part of that, until we are consistently top 4 at least, is letting players know that when they come here, they will develop, they will be part of a club thats going places, but if you work hard and you progress you will be allowed you "dream move" at a cost set by the club.

 

[crisp packet]

24 minutes ago, LinekersApples said:

When he scores the winner at Wembley in the Sherpa Van reincarnation for the U23s against Bristol Rovers, the world will take note.

Going no where ? At any cost...

[turtmcfly]

19 minutes ago, mozartfox said:

It saddens me sometimes how some quarters on FT write players off so quickly.

 

We have not seen Benkovic play yet and Soyuncu just for a handful of games.  Yet already there is talk of spunking cash on Burnley and Brighton CB’s.   I appreciate that if Harry goes and we do not replace, our fortunes could be fundamentally influenced by a weaker defence.  On the other hand, we may be pleasantly surprised!

 

Foreign players do need to time to become accustomed to the EPL, but they have to start somewhere and hopefully we  will all get behind these younger players if they are chucked in because HM leaves on Dead-line day.

 

But, ah f*** it. Let's roll the dice, cross our fingers and console ourselves by looking at the bank balance if it all goes horribly wrong. I'm not sure this call would appear in the billionaire's playbook.

 

No quarters on FT have written those two off. People are rightly questioning whether they're up to the job, given scant evidence. One appears to be injury prone and has most recently played in a league which you have roundly abused in threads mentioning the possibility of buying players from it. The other has minimal minutes under his belt and has hardly appeared to be a failsafe option.

 

The fact you admit it may not work out makes it clear you're not convinced either. Based on this I'm at a loss to understand why you're so 'animated' on this specific subject - you must be in double figures now for posts saying exactly the same thing.

[ealingfox]

Hope we jack up the price now

 

Also big Chaggy Soyuncu will be the breakout star of this season just you watch

[Dames]

1 hour ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

That wouldn't make a difference on our stance, he wouldn't be allowed to leave, as our valuation hasn't been met and our own personal deadline will have passed.

 

I'd say that come the start of next week, I believe our deadline will have passed and that'll be the end of it from our side.

I believe they hope if they successfully unsettle a player last minute before the season starts we might be more open to selling for a slightly lower price.

 

They will know about our deadline but they probably don't care and will press ahead regardless in the hopes of outwitting us. I personally believe that if it was Man City Maguire would throw his toys out and strong arm us into selling but not for Man Utd.

[urban.spaceman]

 

[ClaphamFox]

18 minutes ago, turtmcfly said:

 

But, ah f*** it. Let's roll the dice, cross our fingers and console ourselves by looking at the bank balance if it all goes horribly wrong. I'm not sure this call would appear in the billionaire's playbook.

 

No quarters on FT have written those two off. People are rightly questioning whether they're up to the job, given scant evidence. One appears to be injury prone and has most recently played in a league which you have roundly abused in threads mentioning the possibility of buying players from it. The other has minimal minutes under his belt and has hardly appeared to be a failsafe option.

 

The fact you admit it may not work out makes it clear you're not convinced either. Based on this I'm at a loss to understand why you're so 'animated' on this specific subject - you must be in double figures now for posts saying exactly the same thing.

It's bizarre, isn't it? If Maguire goes, our remaining senior CBs will be Evans, Morgan, Benkovic and Soyuncu. Of those, three are question marks: Morgan is slowing and approaching the end of his career, Benkovic is unproven in the Premier League and known to be injury-prone, while Soyuncu is also unproven and has looked raw whenever he's played. Which leaves us massively reliant on Evans staying fit and hoping that he manages to form a successful partnership with one of the others. A supremely risky strategy for a club that supposedly has big ambitions this season.

Edited 26 July 2019 by ClaphamFox

[Legend_in_blue]

Should Man U raise a bid which matches our price, I still think we'll tell them to go away.  This deal won't happen.

[Dahnsouff]

9 minutes ago, Legend_in_blue said:

Should Man U raise a bid which matches our price, I still think we'll tell them to go away.  This deal won't happen.

Why do you think that? Too close to the end of the window?

[Legend_in_blue]

1 minute ago, Dahnsouff said:

Why do you think that? Too close to the end of the window?

Not only that, if a bid comes in, we ignore it until 10 minutes of the window remaining and tell them no.

 

That's what you get for stirring up the media when you mess us about.

[drew]

1 minute ago, Legend_in_blue said:

Not only that, if a bid comes in, we ignore it until 10 minutes of the window remaining and tell them no.

 

That's what you get for stirring up the media when you mess us about.

Absolutely agree with this, we need to send a message to other clubs and agents that we won't be bullied into selling our best assets via the media.

 

Next year will be worse as no doubt they will come knocking for Maddison, Chilwell and Ricardo.

[ARM1968]

I really think our future depends on how we handle Maguire. If we hold firm and refuse to sell unless Utd hit the £85 million mark, then it sends a message to other players in the squad, their agents and bigger teams. They will think twice about raising us. However it is a fine balancing act all round. 

[fox_favourite]

59 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

Geeze SkySports are getting boring now with their obsession with Man Utd. Nothing is happening, nothing has happened so stop making non stories put of sheer guess work! We've always been in a strong position, it's Man Utd that are faffing! Pay the fee or go look somewhere else!!!! And spot going on about Manchester Utd, SkySports!!!!!!!!!

Edited 26 July 2019 by fox_favourite

[crisp packet]

All very late in the day .. not very long left in the window!

[BKLFox]

55 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Excellent post (in my opinion) on Red Cafe

 

 

This to me is the crux of the issue. Making a stand on Harry, could very impact the attractiveness of the club to other potential suitors. I agree we should get the best possible price were he to leave, but it should not be treated in pure isolation of other factors that progress the club.

 

Would have replied, but my ridiculous 3 posts a day limit has been met.

Maybe in 1 of your 3 posts you could advise the red cafe poster that times are a changing with all the TV money & us little clubs can fight a little harder to keep under contracted players.
Regarding stepping stones remember the top 6 all had to start somewhere, it wasn't very long ago, in the great history of football, that Chelsea, Spurs & Man City were with the rest of us looking up, this fixed top 6 is really in its infancy in the big scheme. It was the start of 90s Man U became dominent for a period, prior to that it was Liverpool but look at the clubs making up the top 3 in these 2 decades the likes of Villa, Forest, Leeds, Blackburn, Newcastle & even Norwich, it wasn't till the turn of 2000 that we start to see the likes of Arsenal more often & Chelsea for the 1st time, coincidently when they become rich & then not until 2011 do we see Man City consistently & again coinciding with their take over.
Man U in Premier lge terms have been out of it for the past 6yrs i'm not sure if we asked Fuchs if he would swap the past 4yrs to say that he played for the great Man U he would say its my 1 regret. I know its not players coming to the end of their careers that the poster on red cafe is probably referring too but our signing of Tielemans would be a great casing point, he had the big options he didn't need the stepping stone, that was done in a 6mth loan period but he still chose little Leicester over these Big clubs.
Finally as he brought up the idea we are pricing Maguire out of a move with an unrealistic valuation on a player who is not the best CB in the world are they aware we actually value him around the 50-55m mark the remaining figure makes up/covers our investment costs, unlike the figure they are putting on Pogba.

As for your concern about possibly standing in players way making us less attractive, i think in the here & now we are a very attractive club with the owners, manager, players & future facilities we have, yes for every Tielemans there will be a Nicolas Anelka keen to bolster the CV to show the grandkids who he played for, despite not having great stats at those clubs suggesting these players & these great clubs sometimes just don't fit but each to their own.

As i mentioned every club has to start somewhere & the blue line on a progression line chart shows very healthy for us currently with huge potential with the set up with have, maybe just maybe in another 6yrs the regular top 6 will look different & our stepping stone percentages will go up also :-)

[Dahnsouff]

4 minutes ago, BKLFox said:

Maybe in 1 of your 3 posts you could advise the red cafe poster that times are a changing with all the TV money & us little clubs can fight a little harder to keep under contracted players.
Regarding stepping stones remember the top 6 all had to start somewhere, it wasn't very long ago, in the great history of football, that Chelsea, Spurs & Man City were with the rest of us looking up, this fixed top 6 is really in its infancy in the big scheme. It was the start of 90s Man U became dominent for a period, prior to that it was Liverpool but look at the clubs making up the top 3 in these 2 decades the likes of Villa, Forest, Leeds, Blackburn, Newcastle & even Norwich, it wasn't till the turn of 2000 that we start to see the likes of Arsenal more often & Chelsea for the 1st time, coincidently when they become rich & then not until 2011 do we see Man City consistently & again coinciding with their take over.
Man U in Premier lge terms have been out of it for the past 6yrs i'm not sure if we asked Fuchs if he would swap the past 4yrs to say that he played for the great Man U he would say its my 1 regret. I know its not players coming to the end of their careers that the poster on red cafe is probably referring too but our signing of Tielemans would be a great casing point, he had the big options he didn't need the stepping stone, that was done in a 6mth loan period but he still chose little Leicester over these Big clubs.
Finally as he brought up the idea we are pricing Maguire out of a move with an unrealistic valuation on a player who is not the best CB in the world are they aware we actually value him around the 50-55m mark the remaining figure makes up/covers our investment costs, unlike the figure they are putting on Pogba.

As for your concern about possibly standing in players way making us less attractive, i think in the here & now we are a very attractive club with the owners, manager, players & future facilities we have, yes for every Tielemans there will be a Nicolas Anelka keen to bolster the CV to show the grandkids who he played for, despite not having great stats at those clubs suggesting these players & these great clubs sometimes just don't fit but each to their own.

As i mentioned every club has to start somewhere & the blue line on a progression line chart shows very healthy for us currently with huge potential with the set up with have, maybe just maybe in another 6yrs the regular top 6 will look different & our stepping stone percentages will go up also :-)

Thats a big post  You are almost as bad as me 

 

Good points, and I will respond to each one. (Apologies if I miss one, as I will try to summarise your points)

1. Big 6 haven`t always been Big 6
   1. Yup, quite right. But they are now, the media seems push this more than is the actual truth. Plus London. 
   2. After winning the league we hoped we were there, we weren't
   3. A sizeable duration at that level (Not winning the league, but top 6) is required before sales can with good concious being dismissed out of hand
2. Tielemans
   1. Well this is a good case I agree. What got this over the line IMO, was not the fee, it was the loan. No-one else loaned him in January, got the chance to impress him.
   2. Excellent work by our requirement team
3. How attractive as a club?
   1. In the point about the Big 6 you refer to the Big 6 not always being so, but here you very much allowing only discussion of the hear and now 
   2. Having said that, in the here and now, I fully think we are very attractive club, especially for young talent. We define a clear pathway into the first XI, and this is a very appealing aspect to new recruits
4. In conclusion
   1. Not saying I am biased or owt, but we, as a club, are a tremedously attractive prospect for recruits look to
      1. Make some nice cash
      2. Get some first team experience in the Premier League
      3. Develop in a nurturing and supporting playing environment

I am extremly positive in the direction this club is going (Please do not think otherwise!), but I am also concious that continuing such good work must continue until we have a run of several seasons at the top table.

 

[Filberts Treat]

Somebody surely would of posted this but I think they’ll bid at the end of the window.   Purposefully not leaving us enough time to get a replacement further weakening us in the process. 

[whoareyaaa]

5 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Thats a big post  You are almost as bad as me 

 

Good points, and I will respond to each one. (Apologies if I miss one, as I will try to summarise your points)

1. Big 6 haven`t always been Big 6
   1. Yup, quite right. But they are now, the media seems push this more than is the actual truth. Plus London. 
   2. After winning the league we hoped we were there, we weren't
   3. A sizeable duration at that level (Not winning the league, but top 6) is required before sales can with good concious being dismissed out of hand
2. Tielemans
   1. Well this is a good case I agree. What got this over the line IMO, was not the fee, it was the loan. No-one else loaned him in January, got the chance to impress him.
   2. Excellent work by our requirement team
3. How attractive as a club?
   1. In the point about the Big 6 you refer to the Big 6 not always being so, but here you very much allowing only discussion of the hear and now 
   2. Having said that, in the here and now, I fully think we are very attractive club, especially for young talent. We define a clear pathway into the first XI, and this is a very appealing aspect to new recruits
4. In conclusion
   1. Not saying I am biased or owt, but we, as a club, are a tremedously attractive prospect for recruits look to
      1. Make some nice cash
      2. Get some first team experience in the Premier League
      3. Develop in a nurturing and supporting playing environment

I am extremly positive in the direction this club is going (Please do not think otherwise!), but I am also concious that continuing such good work must continue until we have a run of several seasons at the top table.

 

do you get paid to write this

 

Fair play for your enthusiasm 

[ClaphamFox]

1 minute ago, Filberts Treat said:

Somebody surely would of posted this but I think they’ll bid at the end of the window.   Purposefully not leaving us enough time to get a replacement further weakening us in the process. 

That would be an enormous gamble given that we've already shown how stubborn we can be in negotiations and that Rodgers has already clearly said that our own deadline precedes the official one. Why would we sell at the last minute with no time to find a replacement? We wouldn't. If Man Utd have any sense whatsoever, they'll know that waiting too long will mean they don't get Maguire, so I expect them to make a bid over the next few days.

[Dahnsouff]

2 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

do you get paid to write this

 

Fair play for your enthusiasm 

If I don`t start doing some work, I may need to soon 

[Legend_in_blue]

If they were absolutely serious about bringing Maguire in then their attempted transfer approach should reflect that.  All it says to me is, we're not quite sure who to target, but we're Man United in name, so that's all it should take to make it happen.

 

We've been extremely astute in our transfer dealings so far this window, some of these so called big names in English football (or so we're led to believe) could start to follow suit.  It appears to me that behind the scenes they've got a bunch of people not exactly knowing how to go about it or pulling out all the stops to bring in the right kind of players.

 

And now we've got the latest media frenzy, oh look Bailly is INJ bring in Maguire quick and up the bid.  This isn't FM2019 so cut out this reactive nonsense and get proactive in the market and build a team.  

 

Of course, I'd rather they didn't, gives us a better chance of further upsetting the apple cart when we push for top 6 this season.