Maguire to Man Utd / Man City

[FrankieADZ]

1 hour ago, st albans fox said:

There is no strong evidence that Calgar can do this (although the manager will see plenty of him in training so can judge) ..... he certainly didn’t impress in the U23 early on but can forgive him that as adapting ...... benko seems to be a decent option but my concern is his fitness. Considering  Evans is a tad injury prone, so I guess Wes will get quite a few games next season ........

that is true but its not like CS has been giving a bucket load of start to actually show what he can do(like some have and flattered to deceive so to speak) , and doing well in the U23's certainly isnt the be all and end all, as the like of George Thomas can show, did well in our U23's and was alright in league 1.

 

 

Edited 24 June 2019 by FrankieADZ

[Haywood_6]

We re-invest the Maguire money in attack. Benkovic or Soyuncu look like good players that just need a chance, so play them and let's have a look at them. There's too much pressure on Vardy to score our goals again next year I think. People forget he's 32 now. Not exactly a spring chicken. Maddison will chip in with a few and Barnes. But I hope we're in the market for a top quality winger. Rodriguez would be a good bit of business at 5 million too IMO.

[shailen]

29 minutes ago, Deeg67 said:

Disagree.  Evans and Benko are injury risks, Benko and Caglar are untested in the PL, and Wes is basically unplayable against any side with pace in attack.  I'd absolutely give Soyuncu and Benkovic first crack, but I'd 100% sign another proven CB for depth.  Just not a 40 million one.

We so have pascanu who has done well in the u21 tournaments for depth albeit we don't know how he will perform in the first team. I can see the argument for another CB, but for me it's Tielemans, winger, backup RB and then a backup CB in the priority list.

 

I think Maguire has at times also been exploited by pace just as much as Wes has. Both of their defensive positioning are at times questionable but playing with Evans changes that as he has the intelligence to cover positionally and lead by example. 

[Babylon]

59 minutes ago, TaggertvsWise said:

We can’t keep judging his value in the context of ‘the most expensive defender in history’ the clubs are so awash with money nowadays that all comparisons are off. Prices are now driven purely buy how much a club needs to sell (in our case not at all) and how much another club needs to buy that is the only criteria you can judge it on. With that in mind 80mill is about right. We want to keep him, Man City need to replace Kompany.

I’ll make a judgement on all factors... I’ve looked, and it’s still silly money. If Man U weren’t in panic mode, I don’t think anyone would pay close to that.

[mozartfox]

9 hours ago, Viva said:

 Currently we don’t have any cover that is anywhere near as good as Maguire. 

 

And if we did Man City or Man Utd would be in them too!    We have plenty of potential cover, just needs to tested and developed by BR.   With the cash we can improve more needy areas.   

Edited 24 June 2019 by mozartfox

[Babylon]

In terms of replacements... if you seriously think we have a chance to challenge the top 6, then we need someone else as we can’t risk it. Happy with another making up the numbers season then you can press on with what we have.

[surrifox]

Benkovic is our player but seems to have gone from hero to zero without playing a single game for us as a result of injuries playing for Celtic and U21 . Perhaps we should just take him back and get some proper medical assessments and rehab done before any more messing about 

[Ric Flair]

30 minutes ago, Babylon said:

In terms of replacements... if you seriously think we have a chance to challenge the top 6, then we need someone else as we can’t risk it. Happy with another making up the numbers season then you can press on with what we have.

For any chance of top 6 we need to add another 20-30 league goals throughout that team. Defensively we aren't a team to try and pinch 1-0 wins so our strengths lie in trying to win games the right way, which is exactly the football Rodgers is known for. 

 

If we get Tielemans and at least one top drawer winger, plus another forward who chips in with a few goals and assists where possible then we'll be better equipped to score enough. Losing

 

Maguire would leave us with a weaker defence initially but unless the finances are there to buy a proven CB players like Soyuncu and Benkovic are the exact types you'd expect us to buy. The difference here is, rather than us signing them now as we approach Maguire leaving, we tried to plan by bringing them in last summer instead. Our fans seem to have made their minds up that Soyuncu is a bomb scare and Benkovic is the Croatian Lee Morris. Perhaps they aren't going to make it here, but both their profiles fit exactly the recruitment model we should are are operating. 

 

 

[Ric Flair]

33 minutes ago, Babylon said:

In terms of replacements... if you seriously think we have a chance to challenge the top 6, then we need someone else as we can’t risk it. Happy with another making up the numbers season then you can press on with what we have.

Even without Maguire we have a better defence than Arsenal and Man Utd.

[Rusko187]

2 hours ago, Babylon said:

We are unlikely to EVER consistently challenge for the top 4. We simply do not have the financial backing and (pre player trading) income to do so. That is quite simply the long and short of it.

 

Once you accept that, you realise you have to go about things another way to ever hope of making a break through. Smart management, good scouting and player dealings is our only hope. That includes selling assets to fund other purchases, selling and buying at the right time is a skill in itself.

 

 

I'd have felt alot better about this model if it wasn't for Congerton.

 

I'm hoping he will prove me wrong.

[UniFox21]

 

They are a strange club in all honesty; why would they have a gossip column?

[Dahnsouff]

4 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

 

They are a strange club in all honesty; why would they have a gossip column?

Because it allows indirect tapping up. ("Nah, Nah, its just gossip aggregation, well thats what Pep said anyway")

[Babylon]

36 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

For any chance of top 6 we need to add another 20-30 league goals throughout that team. Defensively we aren't a team to try and pinch 1-0 wins so our strengths lie in trying to win games the right way, which is exactly the football Rodgers is known for. 

 

If we get Tielemans and at least one top drawer winger, plus another forward who chips in with a few goals and assists where possible then we'll be better equipped to score enough. Losing

 

Maguire would leave us with a weaker defence initially but unless the finances are there to buy a proven CB players like Soyuncu and Benkovic are the exact types you'd expect us to buy. The difference here is, rather than us signing them now as we approach Maguire leaving, we tried to plan by bringing them in last summer instead. Our fans seem to have made their minds up that Soyuncu is a bomb scare and Benkovic is the Croatian Lee Morris. Perhaps they aren't going to make it here, but both their profiles fit exactly the recruitment model we should are are operating. 

I'd have thought the point of selling Maguire was exactly that, to free up the money to allow us to do all of those things. We'll already have a budget to spend, the Maguire money means we can sort some of those issues now. BUT... Going into a season with Wes, who is hanging on by a thread. Benkovic, who seems almost incapable of going 3 months without an injury, Evans and Soyuncu, who whilst promising pretty much gifted the opposition a goal or a massive massive chance through a terrible error every game he played does not fill me with confidence. 

Edited 24 June 2019 by Babylon

[sylofox]

9 hours ago, Deeg67 said:

Surely this eventuality is why we dropped the coin for Soyuncu and Benkovic?  Benkovic’s injury problems are one thing, but I really want to see those two get a chance rather than spend half the haul on another CB.  Evans will probably be one starter anyway, so you really only need one of the two kids to be ready.

 

Rather than 40 million or more on someone like Dunk, I’d just sign a vet in the “better than Wes” bracket for insurance.

You're going to sign a vet? 

 

To put Wes down? 

[Merchant_Banker]

£430m for Raphael Varane, so £80m for Harry is cheap.

 

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/787380/Man-Utd-Real-Madrid-transfer-update-latest-news-Raphael-Varane

[Gerard]

1 hour ago, surrifox said:

Benkovic is our player but seems to have gone from hero to zero without playing a single game for us as a result of injuries playing for Celtic and U21 . Perhaps we should just take him back and get some proper medical assessments and rehab done before any more messing about 

 

Apparently Benkovic may be fit for tomorrows match vs England U21's. 

 

BR knows all about Evans and has seen Benkovic and Soyuncu close up for months. As far as bringing in a replacement CB then as far as I'm concerned Brendan knows what to do for the best.

 

We also have Morgan and Knight and Pascanu have performed well recently so it may be a case that one of those get promoted to 4th or 5th choice CB. There is also Amartey to consider as he made team of the tournament playing CB in the AFCON for Ghana.

 

We certainly have the numbers at CB if Maguire goes but the question is do we have top quality in those numbers to find a partner for Evans?

[Chrysalis]

9 hours ago, Innovindil said:

It would make him the most expensive cb in football history. While I'm a big fan, you can't possibly expect me to believe he's the most expensive cb in the world right now. 

The most expensive possibly wanted yes.  If every CB in the world was up for sale, there would be others going for more money.

 

He is a proven defender in the top league in the world and his primary language is english, on top of that he is a ball playing defender which is an attribute the top managers go for.

 

So I see 80-90 million on the high side of the expected value.

 

Silly money would be be 120 mill plus.

 

I think you need to get into the current world, inflation in football is pretty high, and even championship players are going for not much less than 30 million.

 

In 10 years time average players will be sold for 100 million, stars 300 million and silly money will be half a billion.

Edited 24 June 2019 by Chrysalis

[Babylon]

1 hour ago, surrifox said:

Benkovic is our player but seems to have gone from hero to zero without playing a single game for us as a result of injuries playing for Celtic and U21 . Perhaps we should just take him back and get some proper medical assessments and rehab done before any more messing about 

The injuries stretch back to his previous club, it was well known that he'd had numerous injuries prior to signing him. So the more recent ones are just a continuation of the trend. The club will do whatever they think is correct, but we'll never know what the outcome of such assessments are so we can only discuss what we know... and that is that it's a worry going into a season with 4 centre backs of the make up we currently have IMO. 

[Babylon]

9 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

The most expensive possibly wanted yes.  If every CB in the world was up for sale, there would be others going for more money.

 

He is a proven defender in the top league in the world and his primary language is english, on top of that he is a ball playing defender which is an attribute the top managers go for.

 

So I see 80-90 million on the high side of the expected value.

 

Silly money would be be 120 mill plus.

 

I think you need to get into the current world, inflation in football is pretty high, and even championship players are going for not much less than 30 million.

 

In 10 years time average players will be sold for 100 million, stars 300 million and silly money will be half a billion.

The current world is that the most sought after CB in world football is going for £62m. Only one championship player (from a non relegated team) has gone for over £20m and he plays for us.

 

I could understand the Maguire valuation if he was actually genuinely brilliant, but I've never seen that to be honest. 

[Gerard]

Just now, Babylon said:

The current world is that the most sought after CB in world football is going for £62m. Only one championship player (from a non relegated team) has gone for over £20m and he plays for us.

 

I could understand the Maguire valuation if he was actually genuinely brilliant, but I've never seen that to be honest. 

 

This for me as well, he's obviously very good in the air and excellent for a CB with the ball at his feet but I've never felt he was a rock at the back. 

 

I never wanted the club to sell Kante or Mahrez and in both those situations I felt the club didn't either but ended up with little choice in the matter. Selling Drinkwater for £35m and Maguire for £80m I just see as good business. 

 

We did spend £30m on two of the best potential young CB's in Europe last season, I'd like to think at least one of them is ready to progress to the first team as if they aren't then it looks like bad business by us. Maguire is a great bit of business if we can promote from within but no one on here can make that call as we haven't seen enough of Soyuncu and Benkovic but BR has. 

[Rusko187]

Maguires solid, never worth £80m and I would personally prefer to keep him... but you just can't turn down that sort of money. We would absolutely need to recruit for another CB as we don't have the quality in depth to replace him.

 

Evans is guaranteed starter no matter what

Morgan, would like to keep him but we do need to look at moving on from him

Soyunchu, walking red card and very much hit/miss

Benkovic, jury is out and is injury prone

 

I don't know too much about Dunk but if we get him for the right price is sounds like a good deal, we have to be prepared to pay over the odds for a CB now though.

[The Quick Brown Fox]

I love how the media spout all the crap about how Harry is about to join this club or that club then go on to say our valuation hasn't been met. He's either about to sign or they don't want to pay, can't be both. 

[Bluearmyfox28]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

For any chance of top 6 we need to add another 20-30 league goals throughout that team. Defensively we aren't a team to try and pinch 1-0 wins so our strengths lie in trying to win games the right way, which is exactly the football Rodgers is known for. 

 

If we get Tielemans and at least one top drawer winger, plus another forward who chips in with a few goals and assists where possible then we'll be better equipped to score enough. Losing

 

Maguire would leave us with a weaker defence initially but unless the finances are there to buy a proven CB players like Soyuncu and Benkovic are the exact types you'd expect us to buy. The difference here is, rather than us signing them now as we approach Maguire leaving, we tried to plan by bringing them in last summer instead. Our fans seem to have made their minds up that Soyuncu is a bomb scare and Benkovic is the Croatian Lee Morris. Perhaps they aren't going to make it here, but both their profiles fit exactly the recruitment model we should are are operating. 

 

 

For me if Harry goes you need to bring in a physical defender not just another ball playing defender. For me Jonathan Tah or Shane Duffy would be my options to replace Harry. Both can chip in with goals too.

[Babylon]

18 minutes ago, Gerard said:

 

This for me as well, he's obviously very good in the air and excellent for a CB with the ball at his feet but I've never felt he was a rock at the back. 

 

I never wanted the club to sell Kante or Mahrez and in both those situations I felt the club didn't either but ended up with little choice in the matter. Selling Drinkwater for £35m and Maguire for £80m I just see as good business. 

 

We did spend £30m on two of the best potential young CB's in Europe last season, I'd like to think at least one of them is ready to progress to the first team as if they aren't then it looks like bad business by us. Maguire is a great bit of business if we can promote from within but no one on here can make that call as we haven't seen enough of Soyuncu and Benkovic but BR has. 

Looking back at last season, it's a shame more trust wasn't placed in Soyuncu at times. If we'd progressed him a little bit more then the situation would probably look entirely different right now. But with us already putting in so many young players, it was always a big ask to chuck another one in at CB. 

[Ric Flair]

1 hour ago, Babylon said:

I'd have thought the point of selling Maguire was exactly that, to free up the money to allow us to do all of those things. We'll already have a budget to spend, the Maguire money means we can sort some of those issues now. BUT... Going into a season with Wes, who is hanging on by a thread. Benkovic, who seems almost incapable of going 3 months without an injury, Evans and Soyuncu, who whilst promising pretty much gifted the opposition a goal or a massive massive chance through a terrible error every game he played does not fill me with confidence. 

Soyuncu will be sound here, especially given Maguire makes a number of gaffs per season anyway, it won't be a huge shock to the system if we replace him with another defender who is excellent on the ball but every so often has a howler. I do agree we might need to bring in one more as cover but not so sure they need to be of Maguire standard just yet. I'd be willing to give him, Benkovic and possibly Knight/Pascanu the chance. I think we need 2 central midfielders, 2 wingers and a striker to put us in with a sniff of the top 6 year on year. We currently have the 2nd best right back in the league, a hugely talented left back and one of the most underrated but experienced CB's in Evans and likewise a very respected goalkeeper.