The VAR thread

[UniFox21]

7 minutes ago, urban fox said:

In my opinion, these are all correct decisions. However, i totally agree with you that where we have been "unlucky" is with the decisions that have not been overturned, such as the Mane dive, Vardy yellow and a high percentage of those handball not given.

The latter 3 decisions on that list; Praet, Nacho and Ndidi are all handballs which I'm putting under "unlucky" as well given they're all similar to decisions we havent got

[Dan]

1 hour ago, UniFox21 said:

Leicester City 0

Overturns: 14
Leading to goals for: 1
Disallowed goals for: 3
Leading to goals against: 1
Disallowed goals against: 4
Net goal score: +1
Subjective decisions for: 2
Subjective decisions against: 3
Net subjective score: -1

 

Game: Wolves (H; Aug. 11)
Incident: Wolves goal for Leander Dendoncker disallowed for handball in build-up by Willy Boly, 51st minute - FOR

 

Game: Tottenham (H; Sept. 21)
Incident: Goal disallowed for offside against Ayoze Perez, 16th minute - AGAINST
Incident: Son Heung-Min offside in build-up to Serge Aurier goal, 64th minute - FOR

 

Game: Burnley (H; Oct. 21)
Incident: Jonny Evans own goal ruled out due to a foul by Chris Wood, 80th minute - FOR

 

Game: Southampton (A; Oct. 25)
Incident: Ryan Bertrand sent off for challenge on Ayoze Perez, 12th minute - FOR

 

Game: Brighton (A; Nov. 23)
Incident: Jamie Vardy penalty retaken after James Maddison scored the rebound with encroachment, 80th minute - AGAINST

 

Game: Everton (H; Dec. 1)
Incident: Penalty for foul on Ben Chilwell by Mason Holgate cancelled, 34th minute - AGAINST
Incident: Kelechi Iheanacho effort, originally ruled offside, given as a goal, 94th minute - FOR

 

Game: Southampton (H; Jan. 11)
Incident: Penalty for Southampton cancelled for offside against Shane Long in build-up, 63rd minute - FOR
Incident: Jonny Evans goal ruled out for offside, 90th minute - AGAINST

 

Game: Wolves (A; Feb. 14)
Incident: Wolves goal for Willy Boly disallowed for offside in build-up by Pedro Neto, 44th minute - FOR

 

Game: Man City (H; Feb. 22)
Incident: Penalty (missed by Sergio Aguero) awarded for handball against Dennis Praet - AGAINST

 

Game: Norwich (A; Feb. 28)
Incident: Goal for Kelechi Iheanacho disallowed for handball, 49th minute - AGAINST

 

Game: Everton (A; July 1)
Incident: Penalty awarded (scored by Gylfi Sigurdsson) for handball against Wilfred Ndidi, 13th minute - AGAINST

 

Source: https://www.espn.co.uk/football/english-premier-league/story/3929823/how-var-decisions-have-affected-every-premier-league-club

 

 

These stats only take into account the decisions actually overturned by VAR. This doesn't include any of the decisions that weren't impacted, so the Vardy "dive" against Watford, the numerous ridiculous handballs etc. 

It's like when people used to say there was bias towards us and Bournemouth in the Championship because we both got loads of penalties - or we just happened to get fouled in the box more than anybody else. Granted I will admit Vardy definitely bought a few.

 

I can believe errors are made with diving and whatnot but handball remains the most grey area of a rule where they really do appear to make it up as they go along.

[AKCJ]

Can anyone think of any time we've really been let off the hook?

 

I'm the most biased person alive so it's difficult for me to say.

 

Was the Tielemans tackle against Bournemouth from this season? That's about the only real one I can think of.

 

The Wolves one was because of that insane handball rule (the rule is wrong but rightly implemented).

 

Anything else?

[Corky]

4 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

Can anyone think of any time we've really been let off the hook?

 

I'm the most biased person alive so it's difficult for me to say.

 

Was the Tielemans tackle against Bournemouth from this season? That's about the only real one I can think of.

 

The Wolves one was because of that insane handball rule (the rule is wrong but rightly implemented).

 

Anything else?

Tielemans v Bournemouth yes, but then Lerma made a similarly poor challenge later on that was ignored. Most of the calls earlier were correct but came under the without VAR they wouldn't be given banner.

[Dan]

1 minute ago, AKCJ said:

Can anyone think of any time we've really been let off the hook?

 

I'm the most biased person alive so it's difficult for me to say.

 

Was the Tielemans tackle against Bournemouth from this season? That's about the only real one I can think of.

 

The Wolves one was because of that insane handball rule (the rule is wrong but rightly implemented).

 

Anything else?

Wolves & Spurs offsides were so close, like literally centremetres in it.

 

I do think early doors we found ourselves on the right side of a lot of the calls - but not wrongly, we did just happen to a few times get relatively lucky. The Burnley one for example, I know a Burnley fan who is adamant that goal should've counted but I can actually see why it was disallowed. Evans is tripped before he can do anything about it.

 

I've made this argument about VAR all season but I feel like the trade off just isn't worth it. I will at least concede there are some decisions it is getting that are better than before, the Burnley non-goal a good example of VAR working well, but I feel like the rules have been catered to suit VAR and in doing this common sense has been taken out of the game, it just simply isn't worth the facade and the saddest part of the game to me are instances like Soucek v West Ham, he doesn't even celebrate the goal (that counted). That to me is absolutely sad, that is plain evidence that the emotion is being taken out of the game and if that is the case, the sport deserves to dwindle in popularity, and I really think it might.

 

I was quite sceptical of VAR in general but I'm amazed it's gone quite this badly.

[AKCJ]

Just now, Dan LCFC said:

Wolves & Spurs offsides were so close, like literally centremetres in it.

 

I do think early doors we found ourselves on the right side of a lot of the calls - but not wrongly, we did just happen to a few times get relatively lucky. The Burnley one for example, I know a Burnley fan who is adamant that goal should've counted but I can actually see why it was disallowed. Evans is tripped before he can do anything about it.

 

I've made this argument about VAR all season but I feel like the trade off just isn't worth it. I will at least concede there are some decisions it is getting that are better than before, the Burnley non-goal a good example of VAR working well, but I feel like the rules have been catered to suit VAR and in doing this common sense has been taken out of the game, it just simply isn't worth the facade and the saddest part of the game to me are instances like Soucek v West Ham, he doesn't even celebrate the goal (that counted). That to me is absolutely sad, that is plain evidence that the emotion is being taken out of the game and if that is the case, the sport deserves to dwindle in popularity, and I really think it might.

 

I was quite sceptical of VAR in general but I'm amazed it's gone quite this badly.

The Wolves, Spurs and Everton offsides were all incredibly tight but the replays/technology proved them to be correctly given.

 

I'm talking about where we've had a real dodgy decision go our way even with VAR. The Tielemans one is the only thing I can think of and even then I think a straight red would have been very harsh.

 

I think the Bertrand red was slightly harsh. One of those where it's definitely a red late on in the game but i'd be annoyed if that went against us so early on in the match (I know referees aren't meant to officiate the game like that but they clearly do).

[UniFox21]

2 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

Can anyone think of any time we've really been let off the hook?

 

I'm the most biased person alive so it's difficult for me to say.

 

Was the Tielemans tackle against Bournemouth from this season? That's about the only real one I can think of.

 

The Wolves one was because of that insane handball rule (the rule is wrong but rightly implemented).

 

Anything else?

Tielemans was one for sure, you'd argue Evans made a meal out of minor contact from Wood for that own goal that was ruled out. The pen we were given against Watford as well was extremely soft. 

[Collymore]

Can't remember who did the new poll after the Everton game but if you do a poll straight after we're on the end of a bad VAR decision then you're going to obviously get over Inflated negative results. 

 

 

[Reg Vardy]

bit radical, but as per cricket could teams have two reviews in 90 minutes.......and no more...the Captain leads the review on the views of his players...this makes the process at the very least interesting, possibly entertaining.......puts pressure on the team appealing to be sure they are right, takes pressure of the officials......extra time gets one extra appeal....

 

Three incidents in two days Leicesters penalty (foul on Soyuncu), Spurs disallowed goal (Foul on Moura), Mahrez disallowed goal (not deliberate handball), West Ham Disallowed goal, (nothing wrong with it) all arguably the wrong decision....as many wrong as right......supposed to improve things not make them worse.....

[UniFox21]

3 minutes ago, Reg Vardy said:

bit radical, but as per cricket could teams have two reviews in 90 minutes.......and no more...the Captain leads the review on the views of his players...this makes the process at the very least interesting, possibly entertaining.......puts pressure on the team appealing to be sure they are right, takes pressure of the officials......extra time gets one extra appeal....

 

Three incidents in two days Leicesters penalty (foul on Soyuncu), Spurs disallowed goal (Foul on Moura), Mahrez disallowed goal (not deliberate handball), West Ham Disallowed goal, (nothing wrong with it) all arguably the wrong decision....as many wrong as right......supposed to improve things not make them worse.....

But appeals work in cricket through the phased play/stop-start play of the game where there's a pause in order to review it. The decisions you've given as examples wouldn't be fixed, the issues were rules of VAR and the laws of the game rather than any errors with VAR. 

[Reg Vardy]

ball ended up in the net on each occasion......that is a stop isn't it ? accept penalty appeals may be different....

[UniFox21]

'Ref Watch: VAR 'blameless' on Moura but why no free-kick?'

http://www.skysports.com/share/12020291

 

They go through the Mahrez disallowed goal, Spurs disallowed goal and Norwood avoiding a second yellow, the Soucek disallowed goal and Fernandes goal. 

 

The Fernandes explanation is incredible. "The official is unlucky as Greenwood is in his line of sight, and then there's more 10passes so they can't look at it." Also complete bullshit. 10 passes is nothing its 32seconds ahead ffs. The balls gone out

 

Basically clarifies nothing. They didn't bother going through the Ndidi decision given they spent 2 1/2mins looking at it. 

Edited 3 July 2020 by UniFox21

[st albans fox]

so we've had as many decisions for us as against us this season with var - SO WHATS THE FOOKIN POINT !!!! ITS SAPPED THE LIFE OUT OF THE GAME WITH NO FRIGGING BENEFIT!!!

 

JUST SCRAP IT !!!!

 

we end up analysing all the calls just as we would if there was no var ….it makes no difference apart from destroying the moment which is what the game is all about !!!!

[Milo]

2 hours ago, Reg Vardy said:

bit radical, but as per cricket could teams have two reviews in 90 minutes.......and no more...the Captain leads the review on the views of his players...this makes the process at the very least interesting, possibly entertaining.......puts pressure on the team appealing to be sure they are right, takes pressure of the officials......extra time gets one extra appeal....

 

Three incidents in two days Leicesters penalty (foul on Soyuncu), Spurs disallowed goal (Foul on Moura), Mahrez disallowed goal (not deliberate handball), West Ham Disallowed goal, (nothing wrong with it) all arguably the wrong decision....as many wrong as right......supposed to improve things not make them worse.....

But this goes against the whole philosophy of VAR.

 

It was implemented to get the correct result for every close call/incorrect decision - not just reviewed decisions, or a percentage of decisions.

 

I was and still am extremely anti-VAR.

 

It's shit

 

 

[Stadt]

It’s annoying when the broadcasters say shit like, “well people moan about VAR but without it that goal would/wouldn’t have been given and it’s the correct call this time!”. The percentage of positive interventions by VAR must be about 25% surely?  It’s rare that it actually helps with an obviously wrong decision and not an objective one.

 

There’s just two layers of deniability now, bad decisions are legitimised by VAR. It takes some of the joy out of the game, never mind any squabbling over a high bar, low bar, the rules say this blah blah blah.

[Aus Fox]

17 hours ago, UniFox21 said:

Leicester City 0

Overturns: 14
Leading to goals for: 1
Disallowed goals for: 3
Leading to goals against: 1
Disallowed goals against: 4
Net goal score: +1
Subjective decisions for: 2
Subjective decisions against: 3
Net subjective score: -1

 

Game: Wolves (H; Aug. 11)
Incident: Wolves goal for Leander Dendoncker disallowed for handball in build-up by Willy Boly, 51st minute - FOR

 

Game: Tottenham (H; Sept. 21)
Incident: Goal disallowed for offside against Ayoze Perez, 16th minute - AGAINST
Incident: Son Heung-Min offside in build-up to Serge Aurier goal, 64th minute - FOR

 

Game: Burnley (H; Oct. 21)
Incident: Jonny Evans own goal ruled out due to a foul by Chris Wood, 80th minute - FOR

 

Game: Southampton (A; Oct. 25)
Incident: Ryan Bertrand sent off for challenge on Ayoze Perez, 12th minute - FOR

 

Game: Brighton (A; Nov. 23)
Incident: Jamie Vardy penalty retaken after James Maddison scored the rebound with encroachment, 80th minute - AGAINST

 

Game: Everton (H; Dec. 1)
Incident: Penalty for foul on Ben Chilwell by Mason Holgate cancelled, 34th minute - AGAINST
Incident: Kelechi Iheanacho effort, originally ruled offside, given as a goal, 94th minute - FOR

 

Game: Southampton (H; Jan. 11)
Incident: Penalty for Southampton cancelled for offside against Shane Long in build-up, 63rd minute - FOR
Incident: Jonny Evans goal ruled out for offside, 90th minute - AGAINST

 

Game: Wolves (A; Feb. 14)
Incident: Wolves goal for Willy Boly disallowed for offside in build-up by Pedro Neto, 44th minute - FOR

 

Game: Man City (H; Feb. 22)
Incident: Penalty (missed by Sergio Aguero) awarded for handball against Dennis Praet - AGAINST

 

Game: Norwich (A; Feb. 28)
Incident: Goal for Kelechi Iheanacho disallowed for handball, 49th minute - AGAINST

 

Game: Everton (A; July 1)
Incident: Penalty awarded (scored by Gylfi Sigurdsson) for handball against Wilfred Ndidi, 13th minute - AGAINST

 

Source: https://www.espn.co.uk/football/english-premier-league/story/3929823/how-var-decisions-have-affected-every-premier-league-club

 

 

These stats only take into account the decisions actually overturned by VAR. This doesn't include any of the decisions that weren't impacted, so the Vardy "dive" against Watford, the numerous ridiculous handballs etc. 

There in lies the problem with looking at any stats on VAR.

The ones highlighted here are probably all correct decisions, it’s the Vardy not getting a penalty against Watford that is t counted, the Mane Liverpool penalty which wasn’t overturned - both went against us.

The numerous handballs not given in the box and the Soyuncu against Liverpool given. There is zero consistency and I would say at least 10 penalty decisions that are not in here that have gone against us.

If your going to look at incidents you have to look at every incident.

[Dan]

13 hours ago, UniFox21 said:

'Ref Watch: VAR 'blameless' on Moura but why no free-kick?'

http://www.skysports.com/share/12020291

 

They go through the Mahrez disallowed goal, Spurs disallowed goal and Norwood avoiding a second yellow, the Soucek disallowed goal and Fernandes goal. 

 

The Fernandes explanation is incredible. "The official is unlucky as Greenwood is in his line of sight, and then there's more 10passes so they can't look at it." Also complete bullshit. 10 passes is nothing its 32seconds ahead ffs. The balls gone out

 

Basically clarifies nothing. They didn't bother going through the Ndidi decision given they spent 2 1/2mins looking at it. 

They make it up as they go along. How do people tolerate this? It's unprofessional levels of ineptness at this point.

[UniFox21]

4 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

They make it up as they go along. How do people tolerate this? It's unprofessional levels of ineptness at this point.

It's genuinely brilliant. 

The fact the official is 'unlucky' Greenwood blocks the view of the ball, surely then VAR was brought in exactly for this reason? 

 

It's made up as they go along, Kepa can still see, but Antonio is in his field of view so it's offside. I keep track of all these weird explanations for when the events happen again

 

 

 

[st albans fox]

36 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

It's genuinely brilliant. 

The fact the official is 'unlucky' Greenwood blocks the view of the ball, surely then VAR was brought in exactly for this reason? 

 

It's made up as they go along, Kepa can still see, but Antonio is in his field of view so it's offside. I keep track of all these weird explanations for when the events happen again

 

The kepa excuse is nonsense 

 

as an keeper, you want to throw yourself towards the ball and cover the goal but Antonio is occupying that space so you can’t - that’s why I would disallow it .... 

[StanSP]

Where did this 10 pass excuse come from?! 

[UniFox21]

2 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

The kepa excuse is nonsense 

 

as an keeper, you want to throw yourself towards the ball and cover the goal but Antonio is occupying that space so you can’t - that’s why I would disallow it .... 

That's the only reason I'd have for it, but arguably he can still dive at the ball. Not sure its entirely wrong to be rulled out, but the explanation is grade A bullshit.

 

 

Just now, StanSP said:

Where did this 10 pass excuse come from?! 

 

No clue, I think it probably involves their weird phase of play rule.

But i don't understand the logic of it, the balls gone out of play therefore the entire sequence of events afterwards shouldn't have even happened. 

[waylander]

18 hours ago, st albans fox said:

so we've had as many decisions for us as against us this season with var - SO WHATS THE FOOKIN POINT !!!! ITS SAPPED THE LIFE OUT OF THE GAME WITH NO FRIGGING BENEFIT!!!

 

JUST SCRAP IT !!!!

 

we end up analysing all the calls just as we would if there was no var ….it makes no difference apart from destroying the moment which is what the game is all about !!!!

Absolutely agree with this just scrap it 

[Legend_in_blue]

It's taken a long, long time but, finally, the way VAR was used tonight - perfection.

 

Pitch side screen used and the correct decision made.  

 

 

[Shane]

Just now, Legend_in_blue said:

It's taken a long, long time but, finally, the way VAR was used tonight - perfection.

 

Pitch side screen used and the correct decision made.  

 

 

Wouldn’t call it perfection!
 

Iheanacho’s goal should have counted

[Webbo]

1 minute ago, Legend_in_blue said:

It's taken a long, long time but, finally, the way VAR was used tonight - perfection.

 

Pitch side screen used and the correct decision made.  

 

 

Stevie Wonder would have been quicker.