The VAR thread

[Yes N'Didi]

We can all agree that it was a foul on Konsa by Fernandes. The Premier League has confirmed this by saying 'It was the wrong decision. It should have been overturned by VAR but wasn't and should actually be a foul on Konsa.'

 

If Fernandes hadn't thrown himself to the ground feigning injury (with the leg he stamped on Konsa with), then it is almost a certainty that Jon Moss would not have pointed to the sport. Surely this then falls under the charge of successful deception of a match official? I bet at least one on the panel (if it even gets that far) would agree there is not clear evidence. And this is exactly why people are convinced of bias.

 

Where there is clear and overwhelming evidence to suggest a match official has been deceived by an act of simulation, and as a direct result, the offending player’s team has been awarded a penalty and/or an opposing player has been dismissed, The FA will be able to act retrospectively under its Fast Track system.

 

EDIT Should add JWP to this list for southampton. Either they both will or neither will surely.

Edited 10 July 2020 by Yes N'Didi

[davieG]

Quote

 

VAR officials must be wary of 'wrong kind of solidarity' with referees, says Fifa's referees' chief Pierluigi Collina
3 hours agoFrom the sectionPremier League

Video assistant referees must not show the "wrong kind of solidarity" with colleagues by failing to correct their mistakes, says Pierluigi Collina.

VAR oversaw three penalty decisions in Thursday's Premier League games and all were later deemed to be incorrect.

Collina, Fifa's referees' chief, has called for consistency in the use of VAR all over the world.

"If you belong to a team, you always try to protect your team-mates," said the 60-year-old Italian.

"If your team-mate made a mistake, you try to find everything to say 'no, no, no, he was correct'."

Fifa has taken over the implementation of VAR from the game's law-making body the International Football Association Board.

Collina warned of a "sort of wrong idea of solidarity" and wants referees to use pitchside monitors to review decisions.

"It's a sort of friendship I would say," he told the World Football Summit.

"Referees must understand the solidarity and the friendship that they want to show is to tell their colleague, 'Be careful, you might have made a mistake - it's better that you have another chance watching the incident on a monitor, you have assessed probably wrongly,' so that finally you can avoid a mistake."

In Thursday's Premier League games, Bruno Fernandes won a spot-kick which he scored in Manchester United's 3-0 win over Aston Villa, James Ward-Prowse hit the bar after a disputed penalty as Southampton drew 1-1 with Everton and Tottenham should have had a penalty for a Joshua King shove on Harry Kane in a 0-0 draw with Bournemouth.

Ex-Premier League official Dermot Gallagher advised that United and Southampton should not have been given penalties, but Tottenham should have been awarded one.

What do the managers say?
Arsenal boss Mikel Arteta: "I never have any concerns about the intentions of the referees. Now everything is so professional, dedicated and they are under so much pressure and criticism.

"I know they try their best with the decisions they have to make. They are getting more and more complicated because of the speed of the game, how quickly they have to react and the pressure with the new system of VAR. We are here to support them. We need them.

"I'm sure they have the right intentions but at the end of the season there is something that has to go into debate and I agree certain principles are going to apply so at least every decision will have the same level of determination."

 

Tottenham manager Jose Mourinho: "I think you should have access to them [VAR officials]. I think you should have access to them to ask directly, 'Why?'.

"It is very important. They are very important in the game. It would stop nothing, make things much more open, much more clear.

"It would give the ref the chance to say, 'Yes, I made a mistake - I feel sorry for that', or, 'Yes, I had an incredible performance'."

 

Liverpool boss Jurgen Klopp, on the penalty awarded to Manchester United: "I can 100% see that [Aston Villa manager] Dean Smith is struggling to accept what happened last night.

"It should just be the right decision. What I don't understand is overruling is so complicated that it must be a clear and obvious mistake. It's difficult but I didn't think last night was too difficult. It's obviously not good.

"I really would like to think that three people watch it - a ref, the VAR and another VAR - and they should find the right decision in the end."

 

 

[Spudulike]

I cannot believe that VAR officials will deliberately give a wrong decision to protect one of their mates. That's quite an accusation and very concerning. 

[Corky]

Hadn't seen it until earlier this evening but that Ward-Prowse dive being given as a penalty then upheld by VAR was worse than Fernandes.

[st albans fox]

6 hours ago, Yes N'Didi said:

We can all agree that it was a foul on Konsa by Fernandes. The Premier League has confirmed this by saying 'It was the wrong decision. It should have been overturned by VAR but wasn't and should actually be a foul on Konsa.'

 

If Fernandes hadn't thrown himself to the ground feigning injury (with the leg he stamped on Konsa with), then it is almost a certainty that Jon Moss would not have pointed to the sport. Surely this then falls under the charge of successful deception of a match official? I bet at least one on the panel (if it even gets that far) would agree there is not clear evidence. And this is exactly why people are convinced of bias.

 

Where there is clear and overwhelming evidence to suggest a match official has been deceived by an act of simulation, and as a direct result, the offending player’s team has been awarded a penalty and/or an opposing player has been dismissed, The FA will be able to act retrospectively under its Fast Track system.

 

EDIT Should add JWP to this list for southampton. Either they both will or neither will surely.

Fernandes falls because he stands on konsa (which wasn’t intentional- he just screwed up the roulette and went off balance) 

BUT his reaction where he rolls around clutching his calf which had no contact with konsa should be highlighted - it’s not the first time that he has appealed for a pen when he would be fully aware there wasn’t one 

 

make sure the refs realise he is a diver and he will get less decisions - like Ashley young .....

[Legend_in_blue]

The problem with the VAR officials is that they themselves are the referees.  It's all very closed shop and because of that it's wide open to inconsistencies as we have seen.

 

Does Collina understand this?  Not sure he fully does with the way he comes across in that piece although it's hard to tell.

 

Brilliant referee he was, if everyone was as good as him, we wouldn't even need VAR.  😆

[shailen]

[KrefelderFox666]

20 hours ago, StanSP said:

Peter Walton is a bellend. Never comes across as being able to have an opinion and just toes the party line about everything. Tiresome listening to him. BT Sport just use him as filler on their matches. 

 

'let's bring in Peter Walton in' 

 

*Peter agrees with the referee*

 

'Thanks Peter!' 

Exactly this, nailed on. Every time I have watched it he's saying the ref got it spot on, or VAR got it spot on for reversing a decision. He adds nothing to BT's coverage.

[st albans fox]

10 hours ago, shailen said:

Looks like It’s been complied by aftv ......

[Aus Fox]

On 11/07/2020 at 07:11, shailen said:

 No way has that not been done by an Arsenal fan and no way can you say that’s what the table would look like. 
A goal completely changes a game, it changes the mentally of players and the suns made. 
Whose to say a 0-0 draw where Team A has a goal incorrectly ruled out in the first half, wouldn’t have pushed Team B to make changes and different tactics in the 2nd half and win the game 2-1.

Just because in a draw you missed a decision doesn’t mean you would have won that game.

[st albans fox]

9 hours ago, Aus Fox said:

 No way has that not been done by an Arsenal fan and no way can you say that’s what the table would look like. 
A goal completely changes a game, it changes the mentally of players and the suns made. 
Whose to say a 0-0 draw where Team A has a goal incorrectly ruled out in the first half, wouldn’t have pushed Team B to make changes and different tactics in the 2nd half and win the game 2-1.

Just because in a draw you missed a decision doesn’t mean you would have won that game.

This ....

 

I guess you could say that Burnley would have drawn with us if woods goal wasn’t disallowed ......but it’s just impossible to make judgments across the board 

 

so number of decisions overturned in favour v number of decisions overturned against is the only measure and I suspect over a few years it will be no different to not having VAR at all !!!!

[Spudulike]

3 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

This ....

 

I guess you could say that Burnley would have drawn with us if woods goal wasn’t disallowed ......but it’s just impossible to make judgments across the board 

 

so number of decisions overturned in favour v number of decisions overturned against is the only measure and I suspect over a few years it will be no different to not having VAR at all !!!!

It will always remain the same whilst humans are involved. 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

[Ian Nacho]

 

[StanSP]

What kind of VAR fvckery are we going to expect to go against us tonight then?

[Hollyfox]

3 minutes ago, StanSP said:

What kind of VAR fvckery are we going to expect to go against us tonight then?

I'm not sure but they'll definitely be something unbelievably shite against us

[Dirkster the Fox]

2 Great Bets for the last game v Man U (before VAR is against us tomorrow anyway):

 

1) Man U to get a penalty awarded by Referee/VAR

2) Leicester to have a goal disallowed by Referee/VAR

 

Forget the score, these are the best 2 bets.

 

 

[goody2028]

5 minutes ago, Dirkster the Fox said:

2 Great Bets for the last game v Man U (before VAR is against us tomorrow anyway):

 

1) Man U to get a penalty awarded by Referee/VAR

2) Leicester to have a goal disallowed by Referee/VAR

 

Forget the score, these are the best 2 bets.

 

 

Bad odds on them as it’s all but guaranteed. 

[Dirkster the Fox]

17 minutes ago, goody2028 said:

Bad odds on them as it’s all but guaranteed. 

Exactly.............

[dayday]

Should the first Spurs goal stand yesterday?, Everton had a similar situation with Calvert-Lewin having his shot deflected in by Harry MaGuire, but Gylfi Sigurdsson was stood in the keepers path and was deemed offside.

 

 

[lcfcfoz]

40 minutes ago, dayday said:

Should the first Spurs goal stand yesterday?, Everton had a similar situation with Calvert-Lewin having his shot deflected in by Harry MaGuire, but Gylfi Sigurdsson was stood in the keepers path and was deemed offside.

 

 

No, son was close of being offside too but no replays his knee would of be been so close, I personally think probably off, that's why we didn't get to see it again

Edited 20 July 2020 by lcfcfoz

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, lcfcfoz said:

No, son was close of being offside too but no replays his knee would of be been so close, I personally think probably off, that's why we didn't get to see it again

He isn’t talking about that - you are arguing that black is white - everyone has now have accepted son was onside.  The issue was Kane when the shot was deflected and that’s the key. No deflection and Kane is not active as the ball is heading the other side of the goal  ....he only becomes active because of the deflection and that was off our player ... so there is no conspiracy .....

[Facecloth]

40 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

He isn’t talking about that - you are arguing that black is white - everyone has now have accepted son was onside.  The issue was Kane when the shot was deflected and that’s the key. No deflection and Kane is not active as the ball is heading the other side of the goal  ....he only becomes active because of the deflection and that was off our player ... so there is no conspiracy .....

Actually if you watch the flight of the ball the initial shot is going round the back of him and passing his right side, and the deflection takes it to his left side. He's clearly in the path of both the initial shot and the deflection, and also obscuring Schmeichel’s view of the the ball hitting Justin.

[lcfcfoz]

1 hour ago, st albans fox said:

He isn’t talking about that - you are arguing that black is white - everyone has now have accepted son was onside.  The issue was Kane when the shot was deflected and that’s the key. No deflection and Kane is not active as the ball is heading the other side of the goal  ....he only becomes active because of the deflection and that was off our player ... so there is no conspiracy .....

I said no

[Facecloth]

I know that west ham penalty helps us, but make me think of the De Bruyne hand ball that wasn't given because apparently he was allowed to protect his face.