Our system detected that your browser is blocking advertisements on our site. Please help support FoxesTalk by disabling any kind of ad blocker while browsing this site. Thank you.
Jump to content
 Share
MPH

How would you improve the team in January?

By MPH, in Transfer Talk

Recommended Posts

Strokes

Strokes

Posted
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Not disagreeing with you, but he has a wealth of experience, especially in the CL, he could be a useful signing. Rodgers isn't opposed to buying older players, Milner at Liverpool springs to mind. 

 

Evident for me in the Man U, Liverpool, Man City, performance is a lack of experience of how to cope with a big game environment, I think we still need a blend of youth and experience. 

I don’t think anyone is saying we should only buy players that are sub 22 years old. It’s just that players on the decline, are not always great assets unless it’s a special case.

Like the one you’ve highlighted, Milner is

- a great character/leader.

- probably the most versatile player of a generation.

- available for free

Its not just low risk, that was a no brainer.

Edited by Strokes
Link to comment
Share on other sites
coolhandfox

coolhandfox

Posted
Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I don’t think anyone is saying we should only buy players that are sub 22 years old. It’s just that players on the decline, are not always great assets unless it’s a special case.

Like the one you’ve highlighted, Milner is

- a great character/leader.

- probably the most versatile player of a generation.

- available for free

Its not just low risk, that was a no brainer.

Is he on the decline?

 

5 goals in six CL games this season, two against Liverpool in a draw and a win? 

16 goals in 35 Serie A last season, not as good this season but Napoli have been poor in the league in general, nut still 4 goals and 2 assists in 16 games. 

 

If he's available at 8 million as rumored its not really high risk.

 

To be fair, I'd be surprised if we had a chance to sign him 

 

Edited by coolhandfox
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Strokes

Strokes

Posted
Posted
51 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Is he on the decline?

 

5 goals in six CL games this season, two against Liverpool in a draw and a win? 

16 goals in 35 Serie A last season, not as good this season but Napoli have been poor in the league in general, nut still 4 goals and 2 assists in 16 games. 

 

If he's available at 8 million as rumored its not really high risk.

 

To be fair, I'd be surprised if we had a chance to sign him 

 

Is it not possible Napoli are not doing so well in the league because certain players are declining?

Also when we sign a striker I’d like one that can develop into the next Jamie Vardy (impossible I know), not someone who is likely to fade at the same time as him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
coolhandfox

coolhandfox

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Is it not possible Napoli are not doing so well in the league because certain players are declining?

Also when we sign a striker I’d like one that can develop into the next Jamie Vardy (impossible I know), not someone who is likely to fade at the same time as him.

Of course its possible, but then were Kasper and Vardy on the decline because we did poorly under Puel and Shakespeare?

 

Sometimes recruitment is about the here and now and the future, for example like last summers CB recruitment Evans (now), benkovic, Soyuncu (Future) 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Strokes

Strokes

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, coolhandfox said:

Of course its possible, but then were Kasper and Vardy on the decline because we did poorly under Puel and Shakespeare?

 

Sometimes recruitment is about the here and now and the future, for example like last summers CB recruitment Evans (now), benkovic, Soyuncu (Future) 

Vardy is on the decline and has been for a while, his game has adapted quite considerably as age goes on. He has been able to achieve better stats due to an intelligent manager that has removed the inefficiencies from his game.

I don’t think we need Mertens in the here and now.

Edited by Strokes
  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
pazzerfox

pazzerfox

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Vardy is on the decline and has been for a while, his game has adapted quite considerably as age goes on. He has been able to achieve better stats due to an intelligent manager that has removed the inefficiencies from his game.

I don’t think we need him in the here and now.

Are you on drugs!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
wardyfox86

wardyfox86

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Strokes said:

Vardy is on the decline and has been for a while, his game has adapted quite considerably as age goes on. He has been able to achieve better stats due to an intelligent manager that has removed the inefficiencies from his game.

I don’t think we need him in the here and now.

I think decline is the wrong word to use. Rodgers has made no secret of the fact he's adapted his game to manage his energy more efficiently. I'd wager that if he was asked to play a similar game to 2015/16 then we'd all be saying "he's losing it."

 

He spends less energy chasing down lost causes, and focuses his movement more on finding space inside the box, he has become a more "traditional" striker in the last year. 

 

That is testiment to both the management and the player. He's a completely different animal to back then and the fact that he's been top class on both occasions shows how professional he is.

 

Edit: I suppose I agree with you on the whole, just worded it differently lol

Edited by wardyfox86
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
MC Prussian

MC Prussian

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Strokes said:

Vardy is on the decline and has been for a while, his game has adapted quite considerably as age goes on. He has been able to achieve better stats due to an intelligent manager that has removed the inefficiencies from his game.

I don’t think we need him in the here and now.

Define "decline".

 

I'm not sure it's that clear-cut in Vardy's case. As others have mentioned, he didn't start playing proper pro football until he was 27. By that time, most strikers in the top divisions already have seven, eight years behind them at fast pace, their bodies more degraded due to constant challenges from defenders.

As an attacker, you're lucky to spend ten years in a top division. Most fade after seven or eight years on the trot. Because they can no longer cope.

 

Vardy's pro career is somewhere at the mid-point, maybe slightly past it. We'll have some more fun with him in the near future. And we ought to cherish that time.

 

He's also so wily, positions himself cleverly on the pitch and has this odd metabolism. I'm sure he's working out daily, but he already comes with this slender physique. Good genes, I suppose. All in all, a great combo and one that will carry him the distance. He's a marathon runner in a sport that is so keen on sprinters, if you get my allegory.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Strokes

Strokes

Posted
Posted
42 minutes ago, wardyfox86 said:

I think decline is the wrong word to use. Rodgers has made no secret of the fact he's adapted his game to manage his energy more efficiently. I'd wager that if he was asked to play a similar game to 2015/16 then we'd all be saying "he's losing it."

 

He spends less energy chasing down lost causes, and focuses his movement more on finding space inside the box, he has become a more "traditional" striker in the last year. 

 

That is testiment to both the management and the player. He's a completely different animal to back then and the fact that he's been top class on both occasions shows how professional he is.

 

Edit: I suppose I agree with you on the whole, just worded it differently lol

Ha, yeah that’s pretty much what I’m getting at.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Strokes

Strokes

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, MC Prussian said:

Define "decline".

 

I'm not sure it's that clear-cut in Vardy's case. As others have mentioned, he didn't start playing proper pro football until he was 27. By that time, most strikers in the top divisions already have seven, eight years behind them at fast pace, their bodies more degraded due to constant challenges from defenders.

As an attacker, you're lucky to spend ten years in a top division. Most fade after seven or eight years on the trot. Because they can no longer cope.

 

Vardy's pro career is somewhere at the mid-point, maybe slightly past it. We'll have some more fun with him in the near future. And we ought to cherish that time.

 

He's also so wily, positions himself cleverly on the pitch and has this odd metabolism. I'm sure he's working out daily, but he already comes with this slender physique. Good genes, I suppose. All in all, a great combo and one that will carry him the distance. He's a marathon runner in a sport that is so keen on sprinters, if you get my allegory.

 

Previously we used Vardy in a way he cannot be used now, as physically it would be to his detriment. His stats haven’t declined, they’ve improved, largely due to a smarter game plan/tactics with Vardy being incredibly adaptable and determined. I’m not taking anything away from Vardy, quite the opposite, it’s incredible he can play the way he does at this age (some of that might be due to not playing professionally until 25 like you say). To think he isn’t being managed in a protective way due to age related fatigue would be beyond naive in my opinion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
MC Prussian

MC Prussian

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Previously we used Vardy in a way he cannot be used now, as physically it would be to his detriment. His stats haven’t declined, they’ve improved, largely due to a smarter game plan/tactics with Vardy being incredibly adaptable and determined. I’m not taking anything away from Vardy, quite the opposite, it’s incredible he can play the way he does at this age (some of that might be due to not playing professionally until 25 like you say). To think he isn’t being managed in a protective way due to age related fatigue would be beyond naive in my opinion.

Maybe it's down to the fact that he's useless or rather wasted as a winger. And kudos to Pearson for correcting that mistake.

 

I'm sure as a key player, Vardy gest some extra consideration in the treatment room during the week.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Strokes

Strokes

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

Maybe it's down to the fact that he's useless or rather wasted as a winger. And kudos to Pearson for correcting that mistake.

 

I'm sure as a key player, Vardy gest some extra consideration in the treatment room during the week.

I wasn’t really getting at him being used on the wing, more what he is being asked to do on the pitch.

Its much more streamlined and disciplined in his pressing now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
l444ry

l444ry

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, Strokes said:

Is it not possible Napoli are not doing so well in the league because certain players are declining?

Also when we sign a striker I’d like one that can develop into the next Jamie Vardy (impossible I know), not someone who is likely to fade at the same time as him.

Napoli are not in decline because of ageing players. Biggest issue in the last 18 months has been Ancelotti's insistence on adopting a 4-4-2 fast paced English style to a very tactical Serie A. It ain't worked and Mertens isn't the only player to have regressed under Carlo. Shame because everyone had high hopes with his appointment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Chrysalis

Chrysalis

Posted
Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Gerard said:

 

I don't want to see us splashing out huge money for players in their late 20's who have already reached their level. The odd 30 something is fine but I like the model of buying a young player with potential to be better than what we could normally attract.

 

As a club I would prefer it that we are savvy enough to know we can't buy ready made players and compete with the elite clubs but if we buy well and nurture young talent we may have a chance. 

Squad needs balance, mix the right amount of experience with youth.

 

So you think the following players were bad buys?

 

Evans

Fuchs

Huth

Simpson

Cambiasso

Ulloa

Ricardo (brought mid 20s now 26)

 

Young players need to be built up to their prime, and when they get there, they get ambitious, heads get turned , poached etc., and they also weaker mentally, but they are great for the finances as they have nice resale value.  I didnt say anything about paying huge fees, the first 5 players I listed had no fee or a modest fee only.  I also never said we should "only" buy older players.  I just suggested our current balance is wrong and would like to see the "next" player be of that age bracket..

 

Note how we still have Vardy, and Fuchs their age kept the vultures away.  Fuchs was rated very highly if he was 5 years younger he probably would have got poached, same with Vardy.

Edited by Chrysalis
Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Popular Post
Gerard

Gerard

Posted
  • Popular Post
Posted
2 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

Squad needs balance, mix the right amount of experience with youth.

 

So you think the following players were bad buys?

 

Evans

Fuchs

Huth

Cambiasso

Ulloa

Ricardo (brought mid 20s now 26)

 

Young players need to be built up to their prime, and when they get there, they get ambitious, heads get turned , poached etc., and they also weaker mentally, but they are great for the finances as they have nice resale value.  I didnt say anything about paying huge fees, the first 4 players I listed had no fee or a modest fee only.

 

Jesus, talk about a straw man argument.

 

I said I don't want us signing players in their late 20's for huge money citing:

 

Zaha (27) at £75m+

Sigurdsson (28) at £45m

 

And you come up with six players as an example who:

 

One was 24 yo when we signed him.

Two were free transfers

Two were £3m

And the other signed at 28 for £8m the year we got promoted and was rated the best striker in the Championship by our two CB's. 

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Chrysalis

Chrysalis

Posted
Posted (edited)

Yet you said you dont want us signing players for huge money when I never said we should.

 

Quote

A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent.

 

My examples were clearly to point out that you can sign players in their mid to late 20s who were value for money and also to point out they were all players who offered something positive to the team.  It would seem you just argued with me for the sake of it as you not only once did a straw man argument yourself in your first reply, you then repeated what I replied to you that they were good value for money.  

Edited by Chrysalis
  • Like 2
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...