FA Cup 4th Round - Brentford Away

[volpeazzurro]

2 hours ago, Voll Blau said:

 

As a supporter, winning trophies and the memories that come as a result of that is what it's all about. The idea that we should bottle the best chance we've arguably ever had to win trophies, with a manager who seems keen to win them, on the off-chance it'll keep the vultures from the door of our best players (newsflash - it won't) is a slightly gut-wrenching idea if I'm honest.

 

The idea that Cups mean nothing to foreign players is also slightly condescending, I think. Even if they don't "get it" in the early rounds (I appreciate the culture and structure of the FA Cup is fairly unique compared to their European counterparts), they certainly would with 40k-odd Blues cheering them on a lap of honour around Wembley.

 

As fans, we need to stop worrying about our fears of what the future may hold and just enjoy the present! If players leave, they leave - but right now Leicester City have never been better placed to go for any silverware they can lay their hands on. It's time to live for the moment!

I'm talking one early round cup match against top four and a cup semifinal, you simply can't out your best team every match can you so, how would you prioritise?

[volpeazzurro]

2 hours ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

We could qualify for the Champions League and we still be playing Championship football in so many years time. Various examples across Europe where this has occurred. 

 

But there's a lot less chance of it if you've recruited better players and have sound finances.

[CosbehFox]

2 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

But there's a lot less chance of it if you've recruited better players and have sound finances.

But equally Champions League qualification alone doesn’t make any more attractive than the other 31 qualifiers to the main draw. 

 

A history of silverware helps you stand out when going for those better players. 

[Voll Blau]

1 hour ago, volpeazzurro said:

I agree it would be nice to have it all but in our current position we have to prioritise and to jeopardise two real good opportunities for an early round fa cup match is a no brainer for me. Maybe next season with an even better squad but it's about building slowly and realising opportunities withan eye on the future. Without the money and glamour from Europe next season I fear us slipping into mediocrity again. Get into the top 4 again next season with a reasonable showing in Europe and I see us challenging for years to come. One more FA cupless season will make no difference,  not finishing in the top four could have dire consequences. 

 

We managed to slip into mediocrity pretty well while we were playing in the Champions League last time. To say there'll be "dire consequences" for something none of us expected at the start of the season is ridiculous.

 

1 hour ago, volpeazzurro said:

I'm talking one early round cup match against top four and a cup semifinal, you simply can't out your best team every match can you so, how would you prioritise?

It's an early round Cup match in a Cup we can win! The priority should be winning stuff because we're capable of winning stuff. As others have mentioned, we lost top quality players even when we had Champions League football and were champions of England. If players decide to leave, they will no matter what. For a club like us, serious challenges for silverware are a much bigger statement of intent than trying to act like fvcking Spurs or Arsenal in thinking league placings are more important.

 

I've been hearing the "let's take the Cup seriously" excuse since we were challenging for promotion. We've literally never been in a better position (comfortable in the league but with no chance of winning it) to make it a priority.

[Stadt]

If we saw another side in the exact same position not take the cups seriously, we’d laugh. We’ve already showed that we can rest players fairly well and nobody aside from Evans has played too much.

 

Losing a premier league game with the cushion to 5th we have is fairly inconsequential, losing against Brentford isn’t. 

[volpeazzurro]

1 hour ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

But equally Champions League qualification alone doesn’t make any more attractive than the other 31 qualifiers to the main draw. 

 

A history of silverware helps you stand out when going for those better players. 

Do you really think that a foreign player will be more attracted by the fact you've won a Caribou cup for example than you've qualified for the Champions League?

[volpeazzurro]

5 hours ago, Voll Blau said:

 

We managed to slip into mediocrity pretty well while we were playing in the Champions League last time. To say there'll be "dire consequences" for something none of us expected at the start of the season is ridiculous.

 

It's an early round Cup match in a Cup we can win! The priority should be winning stuff because we're capable of winning stuff. As others have mentioned, we lost top quality players even when we had Champions League football and were champions of England. If players decide to leave, they will no matter what. For a club like us, serious challenges for silverware are a much bigger statement of intent than trying to act like fvcking Spurs or Arsenal in thinking league placings are more important.

 

I've been hearing the "let's take the Cup seriously" excuse since we were challenging for promotion. We've literally never been in a better position (comfortable in the league but with no chance of winning it) to make it a priority.

Well it's all about opinions and who am I to think I'm right, I respect yours and do see your point. I just feel a bit different about qualification this time and the potential consequences of it. We can only put our strongest team out on so many occasions,  we'll just have to go with what Brendan does and support him and the team regardless. Good luck in all of them eh!

Edited 7 January 2020 by volpeazzurro

[CosbehFox]

27 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

Do you really think that a foreign player will be more attracted by the fact you've won a Caribou cup for example than you've qualified for the Champions League?

Why is it one or the other ?

 

Considering the top clubs have generally won the League Cup for a consistent period. It suggest foreign players just want to win things. 

 

We are fourteen points clear of 5th. The games congestion calms after January. At worst we will still have a 5 points lead. Three of the chasing clubs have 

 

 

[gurru991]

2 hours ago, volpeazzurro said:

Do you really think that a foreign player will be more attracted by the fact you've won a Caribou cup for example than you've qualified for the Champions League?

That sounds like something that should be played in Canada.

[The boy Linacre]

4 hours ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

But equally Champions League qualification alone doesn’t make any more attractive than the other 31 qualifiers to the main draw. 

 

A history of silverware helps you stand out when going for those better players. 

I supposed what you're saying here is that if a player has to choose NOW between 2 clubs who are offering the same wages then he is going to choose based on the above.

 

So which one would the player choose:

Leicester City or.....

Everton

 

Maybe the trophies aren't so important........but when all said and done they choose on money I suspect, generally manipulated by their agents

[volpeazzurro]

3 hours ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Why is it one or the other ?

 

Considering the top clubs have generally won the League Cup for a consistent period. It suggest foreign players just want to win things. 

 

We are fourteen points clear of 5th. The games congestion calms after January. At worst we will still have a 5 points lead. Three of the chasing clubs have 

 

 

Still missing the point I think. Our management team have to pick their strongest team for particular matches. That team can't physically play all of them. They will have to prioritise, they can't simply do all three. So how would you prioritise ? Would you pick your strongest side for an early round FA cup tie or prioritise a semifinal or Premiership match. You can't do everything. If you pick a mix and match in every match you risk blowing the lot. We'll just have to see how our owners and management team prioritise and get behind them whatever. 

[The boy Linacre]

5 hours ago, Detroit Blues said:

 

Here's a good example. We just went through a rough patch in the league, losing to Liverpool and Man City. Let's take a look at how much ground other teams gained on us in our last 5 games:

 

 

 

Man City beat us, gained 5 pts on us. Fair play to them.

Chelsea, Manchester United, Tottenham and Sheffield United all gained exactly 0 pts on us

Wolves actually lost a point on us.

 

So if that was our worst 5 game stretch of the season, how likely is it that three other premier league teams will each gain 14 points on us over the final 17 games? It would have to take a complete and unmitigated disaster.

Spot on.

 

Lets do the math.....

To start with, We have 1pt for the goal difference on the 3 teams that could disrupt the top 4, Manure, Spuds & Wolves.

All 3 have 17 games left, United & Spurs lose 1 game in 3, that's just what they do, Wolves draw too many.

 

70pts will probably do, that's 25pts in 17 games for us, 1 win in 2 amongst the rest of our fixtures.  But also 40pts+ for them, well over 2pts per game.

Do we really think those 3, that none of the rest of the League fear, will achieve that with European campaigns as well they hope will crown or rescue their season.

 

Course it can go wrong, but the difference I think between between Brendan and Claude is that Brendan almost exclusively ensures that we don't drop points against teams that we would beat or we are better than.

[HighPeakFox]

I'm glad we've found something to argue over  

[KingsX]

16 hours ago, Voll Blau said:

As a supporter, winning trophies and the memories that come as a result of that is what it's all about. The idea that we should bottle the best chance we've arguably ever had to win trophies, with a manager who seems keen to win them, on the off-chance it'll keep the vultures from the door of our best players (newsflash - it won't) is a slightly gut-wrenching idea if I'm honest.

 

If players leave, they leave - but right now Leicester City have never been better placed to go for any silverware they can lay their hands on. It's time to live for the moment!

 

This is true.  And this discussion about priorities has no one answer … it’s about opinion and uncertainty.  (Who can predict if x rotations in y cup tie will help us in z league game 2-3 days later?)  But things have changed beneath our feet.

 

Start with this fact: CL places are worth 50 to 100 million pounds to top PL clubs, and there are only four.  Arsenal, Tottenham, Liverpool, probably even Chelsea cannot maintain their spending habits without them.  An LCFC that is a yearly contender for them is more of a mortal threat than a nuisance. 

 

If Southampton beat Norwich, that’s a relegation six-pointer.  If LCFC snatch a CL place from Tottenham or Arsenal, that’s a revenue 150-million-pounder.  They do NOT want that.  This is the land of the giants, people.  The old yo-yo mentality will get you killed.

 

This month the big dogs chasing us will fix weaknesses.  And the summer window will be brutal.  Our squad is full of players who would improve them.  If you’re Chelsea, do you buy a Serie A star and hope he can make it?  Or poach proven talent AND weaken the upstart who took the last 150-million-pounder off you?  Well, if that upstart is allowed to keep putting on muscle, he could end up owning your ass.

 

This club and its supporters were always just glad to be here, hoping to make a memory to warm an inevitable cold future.  Now we are trying to sustain a place at the grown-ups table, well able to create memories year after year.  What will best attract/retain players and position the club for future success?  A Carabao Cup and its booby prize of summer EL qualifying?  Or a CL place, its prestige and exposure and enormous revenue?  If you have to think hard about that, you cannot see the real world from your location.

 

To fans, one piece of silverware means decades of bragging rights.  Players’ horizon is their few peak earning years.  That trophy means less than high pay, good coaching, and a club strong enough to compete going forward. 

 

In this hostile environment, the club have to put every resource into sustaining growth.  Right now, CL qualification best accomplishes that.  If that means favoring league position should it come into conflict with cup prospects, so be it.

[Reg Vardy]

9 hours ago, The boy Linacre said:

Spot on.

 

Lets do the math.....

To start with, We have 1pt for the goal difference on the 3 teams that could disrupt the top 4, Manure, Spuds & Wolves.

All 3 have 17 games left, United & Spurs lose 1 game in 3, that's just what they do, Wolves draw too many.

 

70pts will probably do, that's 25pts in 17 games for us, 1 win in 2 amongst the rest of our fixtures.  But also 40pts+ for them, well over 2pts per game.

Do we really think those 3, that none of the rest of the League fear, will achieve that with European campaigns as well they hope will crown or rescue their season.

 

Course it can go wrong, but the difference I think between between Brendan and Claude is that Brendan almost exclusively ensures that we don't drop points against teams that we would beat or we are better than.

On top of this all three have Liverpool to play ( we don’t) and of course they play each other, 3 games of the remaining fixtures where pointS should, or definitely will be lost.....Chelsea got 71 points last year and qualified, that has to be the target...

[norwichfox]

52 minutes ago, KingsX said:

 

This is true.  And this discussion about priorities has no one answer … it’s about opinion and uncertainty.  (Who can predict if x rotations in y cup tie will help us in z league game 2-3 days later?)  But things have changed beneath our feet.

 

Start with this fact: CL places are worth 50 to 100 million pounds to top PL clubs, and there are only four.  Arsenal, Tottenham, Liverpool, probably even Chelsea cannot maintain their spending habits without them.  An LCFC that is a yearly contender for them is more of a mortal threat than a nuisance. 

 

If Southampton beat Norwich, that’s a relegation six-pointer.  If LCFC snatch a CL place from Tottenham or Arsenal, that’s a revenue 150-million-pounder.  They do NOT want that.  This is the land of the giants, people.  The old yo-yo mentality will get you killed.

 

This month the big dogs chasing us will fix weaknesses.  And the summer window will be brutal.  Our squad is full of players who would improve them.  If you’re Chelsea, do you buy a Serie A star and hope he can make it?  Or poach proven talent AND weaken the upstart who took the last 150-million-pounder off you?  Well, if that upstart is allowed to keep putting on muscle, he could end up owning your ass.

 

This club and its supporters were always just glad to be here, hoping to make a memory to warm an inevitable cold future.  Now we are trying to sustain a place at the grown-ups table, well able to create memories year after year.  What will best attract/retain players and position the club for future success?  A Carabao Cup and its booby prize of summer EL qualifying?  Or a CL place, its prestige and exposure and enormous revenue?  If you have to think hard about that, you cannot see the real world from your location.

 

To fans, one piece of silverware means decades of bragging rights.  Players’ horizon is their few peak earning years.  That trophy means less than high pay, good coaching, and a club strong enough to compete going forward. 

 

In this hostile environment, the club have to put every resource into sustaining growth.  Right now, CL qualification best accomplishes that.  If that means favoring league position should it come into conflict with cup prospects, so be it.

Well written KingsX

[Voll Blau]

3 hours ago, KingsX said:

 

This is true.  And this discussion about priorities has no one answer … it’s about opinion and uncertainty.  (Who can predict if x rotations in y cup tie will help us in z league game 2-3 days later?)  But things have changed beneath our feet.

 

Start with this fact: CL places are worth 50 to 100 million pounds to top PL clubs, and there are only four.  Arsenal, Tottenham, Liverpool, probably even Chelsea cannot maintain their spending habits without them.  An LCFC that is a yearly contender for them is more of a mortal threat than a nuisance. 

 

If Southampton beat Norwich, that’s a relegation six-pointer.  If LCFC snatch a CL place from Tottenham or Arsenal, that’s a revenue 150-million-pounder.  They do NOT want that.  This is the land of the giants, people.  The old yo-yo mentality will get you killed.

 

This month the big dogs chasing us will fix weaknesses.  And the summer window will be brutal.  Our squad is full of players who would improve them.  If you’re Chelsea, do you buy a Serie A star and hope he can make it?  Or poach proven talent AND weaken the upstart who took the last 150-million-pounder off you?  Well, if that upstart is allowed to keep putting on muscle, he could end up owning your ass.

 

This club and its supporters were always just glad to be here, hoping to make a memory to warm an inevitable cold future.  Now we are trying to sustain a place at the grown-ups table, well able to create memories year after year.  What will best attract/retain players and position the club for future success?  A Carabao Cup and its booby prize of summer EL qualifying?  Or a CL place, its prestige and exposure and enormous revenue?  If you have to think hard about that, you cannot see the real world from your location.

 

To fans, one piece of silverware means decades of bragging rights.  Players’ horizon is their few peak earning years.  That trophy means less than high pay, good coaching, and a club strong enough to compete going forward. 

 

In this hostile environment, the club have to put every resource into sustaining growth.  Right now, CL qualification best accomplishes that.  If that means favoring league position should it come into conflict with cup prospects, so be it.

 

If we're going to let our ambitions as a club be held to ransom by what other clubs with more buying/pulling power *might* do, then we might as well all jack in supporting City now because it's absolutely pointless.

 

I support the football club, not its finances. I cheer when we beat big clubs on the pitch, not when we outmanoeuvre them financially. I've news for you - we're at the "grown-ups table" right now, in the league position we're in and with a squad capable of bringing us genuine glory.

 

As I've said, this argument about whether it's the right season to "go for" the FA Cup has been had on here since we were going for promotion. If we were sat in literally any position in the Premier League table, people would make an argument against it (we could win the league/qualify for Europe via the league/need to finish as high up as possible to retain prize money/need to prioritise survival). It's an argument which smacks of a lack of ambition, and like the joy of being a football fan has been totally sucked out of those who make it.

 

Sorry to get twee, but as the song goes "whatever will be, will be". It's time to stop fearing the future and enjoying the present. We've never had it so good.

[Ginger_Filbert]

The train prices for this 

[Footballwipe]

1 hour ago, Voll Blau said:

 

If we're going to let our ambitions as a club be held to ransom by what other clubs with more buying/pulling power *might* do, then we might as well all jack in supporting City now because it's absolutely pointless.

 

I support the football club, not its finances. I cheer when we beat big clubs on the pitch, not when we outmanoeuvre them financially. I've news for you - we're at the "grown-ups table" right now, in the league position we're in and with a squad capable of bringing us genuine glory.

 

As I've said, this argument about whether it's the right season to "go for" the FA Cup has been had on here since we were going for promotion. If we were sat in literally any position in the Premier League table, people would make an argument against it (we could win the league/qualify for Europe via the league/need to finish as high up as possible to retain prize money/need to prioritise survival). It's an argument which smacks of a lack of ambition, and like the joy of being a football fan has been totally sucked out of those who make it.

 

Sorry to get twee, but as the song goes "whatever will be, will be". It's time to stop fearing the future and enjoying the present. We've never had it so good.

Face it, Voll. For some there will always be an excuse not to go for it. To secure a UCL place, to retain the UCL place, being in mid table to "avoid relegation" and down in the Championship so we can win promotion.

 

Revenue and the prestige of finishing top four trumps winning a trophy. Lifting aloft a cup, which is still ingrained in our history, our pre-match video montage of Walsh and Elliott. Now it's been replaced by pumping the club with money on the off chance we might challenge Man Utd for a top Portugese signing. We might one day have a three-year stint in the UCL. This is football now. End of year accounts are what people look forward to, not trips to Wembley Stadium, unforgettable days with friends and unforgettable moments in cup finals.

 

Again, and I've said it three times on here already. Why are people putting the scenario of choosing. We are a lifetime clear of fifth, there literally has been no better time for us to go for domestic trophies. Comfortably in the top four, no challenge to the title to worry about, only putting a shine on the season with two trophies.

[PhillippaT]

1 hour ago, Ginger_Filbert said:

The train prices for this 

At least it's not Southern Rail?

[filbertway]

23 hours ago, David Hankey said:

We can beat Brentford with a team similar in make-up to the Wigan game.

Definitely not. We need way more attacking talent on the pitch than we had in the Wigan game.

[MarriedaLeicesterGirl]

1 hour ago, filbertway said:

Definitely not. We need way more attacking talent on the pitch than we had in the Wigan game.

Heck, we might even consider playing a striker.

[filbertway]

5 minutes ago, MarriedaLeicesterGirl said:

Heck, we might even consider playing a striker.

That's the dream

 

[Fox92]

6 hours ago, KingsX said:

 

This is true.  And this discussion about priorities has no one answer … it’s about opinion and uncertainty.  (Who can predict if x rotations in y cup tie will help us in z league game 2-3 days later?)  But things have changed beneath our feet.

 

Start with this fact: CL places are worth 50 to 100 million pounds to top PL clubs, and there are only four.  Arsenal, Tottenham, Liverpool, probably even Chelsea cannot maintain their spending habits without them.  An LCFC that is a yearly contender for them is more of a mortal threat than a nuisance. 

 

If Southampton beat Norwich, that’s a relegation six-pointer.  If LCFC snatch a CL place from Tottenham or Arsenal, that’s a revenue 150-million-pounder.  They do NOT want that.  This is the land of the giants, people.  The old yo-yo mentality will get you killed.

 

This month the big dogs chasing us will fix weaknesses.  And the summer window will be brutal.  Our squad is full of players who would improve them.  If you’re Chelsea, do you buy a Serie A star and hope he can make it?  Or poach proven talent AND weaken the upstart who took the last 150-million-pounder off you?  Well, if that upstart is allowed to keep putting on muscle, he could end up owning your ass.

 

This club and its supporters were always just glad to be here, hoping to make a memory to warm an inevitable cold future.  Now we are trying to sustain a place at the grown-ups table, well able to create memories year after year.  What will best attract/retain players and position the club for future success?  A Carabao Cup and its booby prize of summer EL qualifying?  Or a CL place, its prestige and exposure and enormous revenue?  If you have to think hard about that, you cannot see the real world from your location.

 

To fans, one piece of silverware means decades of bragging rights.  Players’ horizon is their few peak earning years.  That trophy means less than high pay, good coaching, and a club strong enough to compete going forward. 

 

In this hostile environment, the club have to put every resource into sustaining growth.  Right now, CL qualification best accomplishes that.  If that means favoring league position should it come into conflict with cup prospects, so be it.

 

6 hours ago, norwichfox said:

Well written KingsX

I'd much rather see us lift a trophy than finish financially ahead of other sides. There's no point in going to games if our aim is to be more financially secure than a rival.

[urban fox]

6 hours ago, Reg Vardy said:

On top of this all three have Liverpool to play ( we don’t) and of course they play each other, 3 games of the remaining fixtures where pointS should, or definitely will be lost.....Chelsea got 71 points last year and qualified, that has to be the target...

Not to mention they all have to play us again too. These are key games for those teams because if we take points from them it seriously weakens their ability to catch us. For them they really are six pointers which I believe they simply must win to have any chance of catching us and the way we are playing that is going to be a tall order for any of them. (for what its worth I think we could lose at spurs but will beat Utd at home. Wolves away not sure could go either way)