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BigWesMorgan

Aston Villa post match thread 2-1

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2 hours ago, inckley fox said:

I understand all the reaction and over-reaction, but some of the conclusions people come to are pure daft. In both directions. We seem to be all or nothing here on Foxestalk at times, it's either 'slate them all' or 'pardon them for everything and pretend it was fine'.

 

The criticism of Gray is excessive. I'm not a fan, personally, and he has a share of the blame for the goal because - between Chilwell and him - they didn't figure out who was picking up who. But he's not the first to struggle to work alongside Chilwell on that side of the pitch, and in all fairness to the pair of them the (possibly) greater problem was the two-on-two at the far post. If you watch the movement before the goal, Wilf follows a man out and Youri fails to see the danger and join the two defending players. As a direct result of that, and in the absence of a right winger tracking back, there's an over-load at the far post.

 

It's an on-going theme, in recent weeks, that too many of our players don't carry out a significant defensive function. And when they do, they don't do it effectively enough. Very few teams can afford to have a Perez, a Maddison, a Youri and a forward on the pitch, not to mention two of the most attacking full backs in the EPL. Regardless of where they're stationed on the pitch, they simply aren't effective enough in their defensive roles. Those fans talking about 'balance' are quite right.

 

And people saying Schmeichel is past it are going way too far. For most of the season he's been fantastic despite the dodgy distribution (some of which is clearly an ill-thought strategy, and has been an issue for Ward too) and the question marks over the first goal tonight. I can't believe how flippant people are in thinking we can go and upgrade one of the best keepers in our history just like that. Not to mention the fact that he's hardly our biggest headache right now. Poor tonight? Yes. A major flaw in the side? God no. And the over-elaborate moving of the ball in our own half has been a problem for lots of people of late, not only Kasper.

 

I'd agree that we were the better side. That the refereeing was poor. That if our midfielders looked at the options in front of them instead of going for gold we'd probably walk a game like this.

 

But you can't go overboard with the excuses. Nearly 50 shots over two games? Maybe that's the case, but who's taking those shots? Where from? Villa had almost as many gilt-edged chances as us over the two ties, and we should be looking at that.

 

It's wrong to paper over the cracks. Sides have seen that they can get in behind our full backs. That our build-up crumbles when we're pressed. That we can be out-muscled and out-worked in the centre of the park. Not all of the aforementioned were a huge issue tonight, but collectively these factors have been the story of the last month or so.

 

So there are question marks about some of these players when it comes to the proverbial crunch. And, at EPL level, about Rodgers too. Tonight highlighted the need for the manager to address certain problems with a more open mind; and for the likes of Maddison, Chilwell, Youri, Riccy and Perez to prove that they're not simply pretty-on-the-eye - and, in their own right, excellent players - but also winners, capable of sustaining success.

 

For me, the logical reaction is neither to feel that the world has come to an end, nor that all is well and we were damn hard done by. It's true we were far from dog**** tonight. Equally, we should be looking at ourselves before feeling too aggrieved. If we accept that, all told, we need to do better on occasions like this, explore new ways to win games, address on-going problems and generally toughen the hell up, then it could be a great springboard.

Appreciative of the effort of a thoughtful post...

 

But even everything else you wrote is spot on, if Gray puts any pressure on El Mohammedy that cross would not be delivered as precisely as it was. Sometimes, it's one momentary act.

 

As for Schmeichel, he's a stellar shot-blocker, but we can either be stuck with his inability to aerially dominate his box or upgrade. If we get to Europe, this shortcoming will be magnified.

>

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1 hour ago, Dan LCFC said:

Allardyce was spot on. We are the new Tottenham. I wish I was joking but we are aren't we?

I apologise for doubting you in a previous thread. We are becoming very Spursy. Where has our bottle gone? (I just hate the comparison)

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1 hour ago, Dan LCFC said:

Allardyce was spot on. We are the new Tottenham. I wish I was joking but we are aren't we?

We can’t handle big games and have failed in most this season.

 

That said, if being the new Spurs means we have a run of 3/4 seasons in the champions league then you have to say we would take it. I know some people will say we need to win trophy’s and id love that to happen as well but the above would be huge.

 

I’m not convinced any of that will happen though being honest.

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7 hours ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

We were not the better team.

 

Our abilities created more shots, more possesion, but we were second best tactically, in effort we were way behind and played below par when some effort and grit was required. 
 

That is a recurring theme which doesn’t bode well.

Absolutely 100 per cent disagree. Please tell me how we were tactically inept? They got goals against the run of the play to lead in both legs then played on the break and relied on Grealish and a randomly invincible goalie. Those THREE fingertip saves first half were ridiculous. We had about 40 to 50 efforts on goal over the two legs and the players worked their socks off. As I keep saying it hurts its annoying, it's gutting but it was unlucky not a bottle hob or other dramatic shite people are spouting. We are still in the FA cup and 3rd in the league I slept fine last night. 

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This weekend becomes suddenly far more important. We need to see a positive reaction. If this forum is gutted, the players will be more so. We’re still a quality side, should have won this tie comfortably but didn’t. No point blaming a handful of players for the last goal...we had 180 mins to win it.

 

I’ve loved this season and there are 17 other teams that would rather be in our position. 
 

Move on and look forward to Chelsea.

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No mental nous at all in this team. That starts with flapper in goal. Brendan has a poor history of winning important and big games, so who can instil the strength into the young team that’s required if no one has it? 
James Maddison is slow in the pass and far too hurried in the shooting, he lacks composure and it shows in the big games. 
Tielemans is like a deer in the headlights when the pressure is on but who can he turn to for a reassuring nod or words of encouragement? No one, least of all Brendan. 
This team is lacking mettle and that is down to management I’m afraid. I only ever see Kolo Toure looking at an iPad. Is he allowed to do anything else? Does the smallest man in Leicestershire let him have a word with the players? 

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27 minutes ago, FoxyJim1987 said:

Absolutely 100 per cent disagree. Please tell me how we were tactically inept? They got goals against the run of the play to lead in both legs then played on the break and relied on Grealish and a randomly invincible goalie. Those THREE fingertip saves first half were ridiculous. We had about 40 to 50 efforts on goal over the two legs and the players worked their socks off. As I keep saying it hurts its annoying, it's gutting but it was unlucky not a bottle hob or other dramatic shite people are spouting. We are still in the FA cup and 3rd in the league I slept fine last night. 

What a daft comment. They have him under contract and pay him handsomely, of course they can expect to rely on him a little bit. 

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4 hours ago, inckley fox said:

I understand all the reaction and over-reaction, but some of the conclusions people come to are pure daft. In both directions. We seem to be all or nothing here on Foxestalk at times, it's either 'slate them all' or 'pardon them for everything and pretend it was fine'.

 

The criticism of Gray is excessive. I'm not a fan, personally, and he has a share of the blame for the goal because - between Chilwell and him - they didn't figure out who was picking up who. But he's not the first to struggle to work alongside Chilwell on that side of the pitch, and in all fairness to the pair of them the (possibly) greater problem was the two-on-two at the far post. If you watch the movement before the goal, Wilf follows a man out and Youri fails to see the danger and join the two defending players. As a direct result of that, and in the absence of a right winger tracking back, there's an over-load at the far post.

 

It's an on-going theme, in recent weeks, that too many of our players don't carry out a significant defensive function. And when they do, they don't do it effectively enough. Very few teams can afford to have a Perez, a Maddison, a Youri and a forward on the pitch, not to mention two of the most attacking full backs in the EPL. Regardless of where they're stationed on the pitch, they simply aren't effective enough in their defensive roles. Those fans talking about 'balance' are quite right.

 

And people saying Schmeichel is past it are going way too far. For most of the season he's been fantastic despite the dodgy distribution (some of which is clearly an ill-thought strategy, and has been an issue for Ward too) and the question marks over the first goal tonight. I can't believe how flippant people are in thinking we can go and upgrade one of the best keepers in our history just like that. Not to mention the fact that he's hardly our biggest headache right now. Poor tonight? Yes. A major flaw in the side? God no. And the over-elaborate moving of the ball in our own half has been a problem for lots of people of late, not only Kasper.

 

I'd agree that we were the better side. That the refereeing was poor. That if our midfielders looked at the options in front of them instead of going for gold we'd probably walk a game like this.

 

But you can't go overboard with the excuses. Nearly 50 shots over two games? Maybe that's the case, but who's taking those shots? Where from? Villa had almost as many gilt-edged chances as us over the two ties, and we should be looking at that.

 

It's wrong to paper over the cracks. Sides have seen that they can get in behind our full backs. That our build-up crumbles when we're pressed. That we can be out-muscled and out-worked in the centre of the park. Not all of the aforementioned were a huge issue tonight, but collectively these factors have been the story of the last month or so.

 

So there are question marks about some of these players when it comes to the proverbial crunch. And, at EPL level, about Rodgers too. Tonight highlighted the need for the manager to address certain problems with a more open mind; and for the likes of Maddison, Chilwell, Youri, Riccy and Perez to prove that they're not simply pretty-on-the-eye - and, in their own right, excellent players - but also winners, capable of sustaining success.

 

For me, the logical reaction is neither to feel that the world has come to an end, nor that all is well and we were damn hard done by. It's true we were far from dog**** tonight. Equally, we should be looking at ourselves before feeling too aggrieved. If we accept that, all told, we need to do better on occasions like this, explore new ways to win games, address on-going problems and generally toughen the hell up, then it could be a great springboard.

Agree with most of it. 
 

 

..... except the bit about Kasper.

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31 minutes ago, Ceirboy said:

What a daft comment. They have him under contract and pay him handsomely, of course they can expect to rely on him a little bit. 

I literally despair of this forum. My point is that someone was saying they were tactically superior to us even though their only game plan was to give Grealish the ball or camp in their own half. 

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10 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

We need to sign 2 or 3 leaders this summer to fill the squad out. Other than Evans, who out there on the pitch comes across as a leader? We need some experience and calm heads at times like last night when we’re under the cosh. 

I agree

I maintain at times we are too ‘nice’ and too easy to play through. Other than Evans there is no obvious leader 

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4 hours ago, inckley fox said:

I understand all the reaction and over-reaction, but some of the conclusions people come to are pure daft. In both directions. We seem to be all or nothing here on Foxestalk at times, it's either 'slate them all' or 'pardon them for everything and pretend it was fine'.

 

The criticism of Gray is excessive. I'm not a fan, personally, and he has a share of the blame for the goal because - between Chilwell and him - they didn't figure out who was picking up who. But he's not the first to struggle to work alongside Chilwell on that side of the pitch, and in all fairness to the pair of them the (possibly) greater problem was the two-on-two at the far post. If you watch the movement before the goal, Wilf follows a man out and Youri fails to see the danger and join the two defending players. As a direct result of that, and in the absence of a right winger tracking back, there's an over-load at the far post.

 

It's an on-going theme, in recent weeks, that too many of our players don't carry out a significant defensive function. And when they do, they don't do it effectively enough. Very few teams can afford to have a Perez, a Maddison, a Youri and a forward on the pitch, not to mention two of the most attacking full backs in the EPL. Regardless of where they're stationed on the pitch, they simply aren't effective enough in their defensive roles. Those fans talking about 'balance' are quite right.

 

And people saying Schmeichel is past it are going way too far. For most of the season he's been fantastic despite the dodgy distribution (some of which is clearly an ill-thought strategy, and has been an issue for Ward too) and the question marks over the first goal tonight. I can't believe how flippant people are in thinking we can go and upgrade one of the best keepers in our history just like that. Not to mention the fact that he's hardly our biggest headache right now. Poor tonight? Yes. A major flaw in the side? God no. And the over-elaborate moving of the ball in our own half has been a problem for lots of people of late, not only Kasper.

 

I'd agree that we were the better side. That the refereeing was poor. That if our midfielders looked at the options in front of them instead of going for gold we'd probably walk a game like this.

 

But you can't go overboard with the excuses. Nearly 50 shots over two games? Maybe that's the case, but who's taking those shots? Where from? Villa had almost as many gilt-edged chances as us over the two ties, and we should be looking at that.

 

It's wrong to paper over the cracks. Sides have seen that they can get in behind our full backs. That our build-up crumbles when we're pressed. That we can be out-muscled and out-worked in the centre of the park. Not all of the aforementioned were a huge issue tonight, but collectively these factors have been the story of the last month or so.

 

So there are question marks about some of these players when it comes to the proverbial crunch. And, at EPL level, about Rodgers too. Tonight highlighted the need for the manager to address certain problems with a more open mind; and for the likes of Maddison, Chilwell, Youri, Riccy and Perez to prove that they're not simply pretty-on-the-eye - and, in their own right, excellent players - but also winners, capable of sustaining success.

 

For me, the logical reaction is neither to feel that the world has come to an end, nor that all is well and we were damn hard done by. It's true we were far from dog**** tonight. Equally, we should be looking at ourselves before feeling too aggrieved. If we accept that, all told, we need to do better on occasions like this, explore new ways to win games, address on-going problems and generally toughen the hell up, then it could be a great springboard.

Villa had as many gilt edged chances? What 2 games were you watching. They had hardly any compared to us. 

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51 minutes ago, HibiscusMark said:

This weekend becomes suddenly far more important. We need to see a positive reaction. If this forum is gutted, the players will be more so. We’re still a quality side, should have won this tie comfortably but didn’t. No point blaming a handful of players for the last goal...we had 180 mins to win it.

 

I’ve loved this season and there are 17 other teams that would rather be in our position. 
 

Move on and look forward to Chelsea.

Agree . Playing great football , competing in all competitions for the most part and scoring loads of goals too . We’ll get our reward and it will still be a great season 

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Sorry had to mention the villa pitch invasion.

did they all just think they won the cup final??

its one thing if they wanna tear up their own turf but pushing and shoving Maddison and goading vardy was stupid and dangerous behaviour. Classless and moronic hope they get a hefty fine from the FA

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15 minutes ago, FoxyJim1987 said:

I literally despair of this forum. My point is that someone was saying they were tactically superior to us even though their only game plan was to give Grealish the ball or camp in their own half. 

So in essence, the tactics they adopted turned out to be better than ours then, regardless of who was pulling the strings and where the players were most likely to be found? 

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3 minutes ago, Ceirboy said:

So in essence, the tactics they adopted turned out to be better than ours then, regardless of who was pulling the strings and where the players were most likely to be found? 

Yes the brummie genius said go on Jack do your thing and even if they have a million chances our keeper will produce world class fingertip saves, those tactics overpower everything 

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5 hours ago, inckley fox said:

I understand all the reaction and over-reaction, but some of the conclusions people come to are pure daft. In both directions. We seem to be all or nothing here on Foxestalk at times, it's either 'slate them all' or 'pardon them for everything and pretend it was fine'.

 

The criticism of Gray is excessive. I'm not a fan, personally, and he has a share of the blame for the goal because - between Chilwell and him - they didn't figure out who was picking up who. But he's not the first to struggle to work alongside Chilwell on that side of the pitch, and in all fairness to the pair of them the (possibly) greater problem was the two-on-two at the far post. If you watch the movement before the goal, Wilf follows a man out and Youri fails to see the danger and join the two defending players. As a direct result of that, and in the absence of a right winger tracking back, there's an over-load at the far post.

 

It's an on-going theme, in recent weeks, that too many of our players don't carry out a significant defensive function. And when they do, they don't do it effectively enough. Very few teams can afford to have a Perez, a Maddison, a Youri and a forward on the pitch, not to mention two of the most attacking full backs in the EPL. Regardless of where they're stationed on the pitch, they simply aren't effective enough in their defensive roles. Those fans talking about 'balance' are quite right.

 

And people saying Schmeichel is past it are going way too far. For most of the season he's been fantastic despite the dodgy distribution (some of which is clearly an ill-thought strategy, and has been an issue for Ward too) and the question marks over the first goal tonight. I can't believe how flippant people are in thinking we can go and upgrade one of the best keepers in our history just like that. Not to mention the fact that he's hardly our biggest headache right now. Poor tonight? Yes. A major flaw in the side? God no. And the over-elaborate moving of the ball in our own half has been a problem for lots of people of late, not only Kasper.

 

I'd agree that we were the better side. That the refereeing was poor. That if our midfielders looked at the options in front of them instead of going for gold we'd probably walk a game like this.

 

But you can't go overboard with the excuses. Nearly 50 shots over two games? Maybe that's the case, but who's taking those shots? Where from? Villa had almost as many gilt-edged chances as us over the two ties, and we should be looking at that.

 

It's wrong to paper over the cracks. Sides have seen that they can get in behind our full backs. That our build-up crumbles when we're pressed. That we can be out-muscled and out-worked in the centre of the park. Not all of the aforementioned were a huge issue tonight, but collectively these factors have been the story of the last month or so.

 

So there are question marks about some of these players when it comes to the proverbial crunch. And, at EPL level, about Rodgers too. Tonight highlighted the need for the manager to address certain problems with a more open mind; and for the likes of Maddison, Chilwell, Youri, Riccy and Perez to prove that they're not simply pretty-on-the-eye - and, in their own right, excellent players - but also winners, capable of sustaining success.

 

For me, the logical reaction is neither to feel that the world has come to an end, nor that all is well and we were damn hard done by. It's true we were far from dog**** tonight. Equally, we should be looking at ourselves before feeling too aggrieved. If we accept that, all told, we need to do better on occasions like this, explore new ways to win games, address on-going problems and generally toughen the hell up, then it could be a great springboard.

Good post. Emotions are running high so I’ll excuse everyone for some over reactions tonight. 

 

The thing that I noticed and even the pundits saw, was that villa simply used their possession better than us. Let’s be honest every time they attacked we basically sh*t the bed. 

 

Football is a game that can go either way, often with a less talented team winning. Villa earned their win and fair play to them. 

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11 minutes ago, cruzFOX said:

Sorry had to mention the villa pitch invasion.

did they all just think they won the cup final??

its one thing if they wanna tear up their own turf but pushing and shoving Maddison and goading vardy was stupid and dangerous behaviour. Classless and moronic hope they get a hefty fine from the FA

I had turned off just before the final whistle but expected a pitch invasion.

 

We played our nice football but came up against a keeper having the 10 minutes of his life. We could have been two or three up and cruising instead we went a goal down and we're up against it. We don't have that steel in the middle of the pitch to fight when the going gets tough. We lose our composure and start playing the low percentage passes.

 

It's another game to be filed next to Spurs, Wycombe, Swindon and Watford. 

 

To be honest I'm not distraught if we turned up at Wembley and put in a performance like some of those over the last six weeks either Manchester club would turn us over.

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