The Politics Thread 2020

[Leicester_Loyal]

5 hours ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

 

Getting this thread back on topic! I think it depends on the actual question, ask me if I believe a vaccine passport is right for going abroad, I'd support it, but going to the dry cleaners? Nopey!

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/03/time-discussion-covid-certification/

 

Read the comments under this article, they're still rolling in 24 hours later!

[Strokes]

3 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Getting this thread back on topic! I think it depends on the actual question, ask me if I believe a vaccine passport is right for going abroad, I'd support it, but going to the dry cleaners? Nopey!

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/03/time-discussion-covid-certification/

 

Read the comments under this article, they're still rolling in 24 hours later!

It’s punishing people who’ve waited patiently, not had the opportunity of a vaccine and followed all the rules. We’ve done everything so far as a collective, it’s not right.

If everyone had been offered a vaccine, and those without a pass had chosen their fate, I might be more sympathetic. 

[Finnaldo]

Just now, Leicester_Loyal said:

Getting this thread back on topic! I think it depends on the actual question, ask me if I believe a vaccine passport is right for going abroad, I'd support it, but going to the dry cleaners? Nopey!

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/03/time-discussion-covid-certification/

 

Read the comments under this article, they're still rolling in 24 hours later!

There was a poll the other day suggesting a good portion (25-50%) would support vaccine passports on everything down to public transport.

 

Its an utterly bizarre. When’s this being introduced? If it’s not before everyone has been vaccinated your resigning then youngest in the U.K. to months of what is practically lockdown. There’d be riots and rightly so. What if you set it for July but vaccine supply delays full vaccination until August/September? You have the same outcome. I’ve not even factored in those with genuine allergies stopping them from even having the vaccine. 
 

Just goes to show the public can’t be directly trusted with important decisions. Absolute maniac authoritarians amongst us.

[Leicester_Loyal]

Just now, Finnaldo said:

There was a poll the other day suggesting a good portion (25-50%) would support vaccine passports on everything down to public transport.

 

Its an utterly bizarre. When’s this being introduced? If it’s not before everyone has been vaccinated your resigning then youngest in the U.K. to months of what is practically lockdown. There’d be riots and rightly so. What if you set it for July but vaccine supply delays full vaccination until August/September? You have the same outcome. I’ve not even factored in those with genuine allergies stopping them from even having the vaccine. 
 

Just goes to show the public can’t be directly trusted with important decisions. Absolute maniac authoritarians amongst us.

It does hugely depend on the actual question though.

 

'Would you support the use of vaccine passports on public transport?' is a lot different to 'Would you support the use of vaccine passports on public transport if it allowed us to get rid of masks and social distancing rules, rather than have to keep them in place indefinitely?'

 

I don't know the actual question from those polls, but they may have just been as simple as do you support them. My folks would probably support them in theatres, cinemas, football games etc. How often do they go to these places? Never.

 

But yeah, by the time the passport will come into place, pubs and nightclubs etc. will probably have been operating normally for 2 months already, which logically means why do we need them in the first place? Vaccine uptake is already higher than they imagined, so what's changed?

 

It's all a bit of a minefield at the minute, we'll see what Boris says tomorrow.

[Finnaldo]

5 minutes ago, Strokes said:

It’s punishing people who’ve waited patiently, not had the opportunity of a vaccine and followed all the rules. We’ve done everything so far as a collective, it’s not right.

If everyone had been offered a vaccine, and those without a pass had chosen their fate, I might be more sympathetic. 

I do see your point, but I think that would just embolden those conspiracy theorists. Also, as a precedent once we’ve decided restrictions are done with, they’re done with (as was suggested on the roadmap should we get to July without major incident).

I don’t think it’s good to leave these things floating around as the longer it lingers the harder it becomes to get rid of them, didn’t it take decades to get rid of pub curfews after the end of the war? This country has a strange obsession with taking the hard line, I think we’re better served letting peer pressure get to the naysayers as we’re one of the more sensible nations in vaccine uptake.

[Strokes]

7 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

It does hugely depend on the actual question though.

 

'Would you support the use of vaccine passports on public transport?' is a lot different to 'Would you support the use of vaccine passports on public transport if it allowed us to get rid of masks and social distancing rules, rather than have to keep them in place indefinitely?'

 

I don't know the actual question from those polls, but they may have just been as simple as do you support them. My folks would probably support them in theatres, cinemas, football games etc. How often do they go to these places? Never.

 

But yeah, by the time the passport will come into place, pubs and nightclubs etc. will probably have been operating normally for 2 months already, which logically means why do we need them in the first place? Vaccine uptake is already higher than they imagined, so what's changed?

 

It's all a bit of a minefield at the minute, we'll see what Boris says tomorrow.

If I was in the non passport holders position, I’d be making damn sure I spent as little money in an economy that wasn’t prepared to accept parity. They need us to spend when the country opens up and if they close it off to some, I’d definitely be disinclined to get in the spirit off it.

[Strokes]

3 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

I do see your point, but I think that would just embolden those conspiracy theorists. Also, as a precedent once we’ve decided restrictions are done with, they’re done with (as was suggested on the roadmap should we get to July without major incident).

I don’t think it’s good to leave these things floating around as the longer it lingers the harder it becomes to get rid of them, didn’t it take decades to get rid of pub curfews after the end of the war? This country has a strange obsession with taking the hard line, I think we’re better served letting peer pressure get to the naysayers as we’re one of the more sensible nations in vaccine uptake.

Yeah you make a very good case, it’s nigh on impossible to argue with. 

[Chocolate Teapot]

1 hour ago, Strokes said:

It’s punishing people who’ve waited patiently, not had the opportunity of a vaccine and followed all the rules. We’ve done everything so far as a collective, it’s not right.

If everyone had been offered a vaccine, and those without a pass had chosen their fate, I might be more sympathetic. 

Absolutely this, I don't see how you can roll it out until everyone has an opportunity to have a vaccine, particularly given we're consistently told its low risk in younger age groups.

[Tuna]

Thread title needs changing to 2021.

[StanSP]

 

 

Did @UpTheLeagueFox forget this one ? (yes I know KEIR Starmer is still behind, but doesn't paint the prettiest picture for the Tories compared to when Starmer took over...) 

[UpTheLeagueFox]

15 minutes ago, StanSP said:

 

 

Did @UpTheLeagueFox forget this one ? (yes I know KEIR Starmer is still behind, but doesn't paint the prettiest picture for the Tories compared to when Starmer took over...) 

Sorry to gently sprinkle on your chips, Stanley, but I did actually post it earlier.  

There seems to be a ton of posts chopped out of this thread by the mods today as a few people went off topic and one poster in particular worked himself into a needless fury.

[ozleicester]

cant believe anyone supports a show your papers before you can get on a bus idea.

[Gordon the Great]

15 hours ago, ozleicester said:

cant believe anyone supports a show your papers before you can get on a bus idea.

And then when you`ve shown them, the Crafty old officer will say "Good luck" in English and you , without thinking, will reply "Thank you" and then........You vill be back to stalag Luft III Swinehund !!

Edited 5 April 2021 by Gordon the Great
SPELLING

[UpTheLeagueFox]

 

A result like this would a serious tick in the keeth for Starmer and Labour.

[Dunge]

30 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

 

A result like this would a serious tick in the keeth for Starmer and Labour.

I wasn’t expecting a poll like that.

 

I had a Tory leaflet through the door the other day, “vote X in the upcoming council election”, that sort of thing. Circulars like that head to the recycling in my house as I’m sure they do in most, but I do generally have a cursory glance to see what messages the parties are leading with - to see what they decide to put in the limited number of words that they can use in their summary headlines. The things that stood out to me in this one were:

 

- At least two mentions of working alongside the police;

- Commitment to tackling climate change;

- A mention of “protecting our way of life”.

 

I think these things are interesting because these are things that the party are choosing carefully because they believe they will resonate with people. In this case, policing may be a traditional Tory area but there have been controversies recently, yet it seems they really want to lead with it in Barrow & Quorn. Climate change is an interesting addition away from the more traditional narratives that they believe needs to be in there too. But that phrase “protecting our way of life” stood out to me most. That, to me, is worth noting because it’s linked to pace of change, and is also linked to the common mistake I see people make about thinking people in the provinces are obsessed with immigration. I don’t believe they are really. They just don’t want their lives uprooted and immigration is seen as a precursor to that.

 

I mention it because maybe that’s something where Labour won’t resonate with the people of Hartlepool, the red wall and the like. Back in the 70s and 80s, they represented the miners, the workers, but moreover continuation of way of life rather than the change of Thatcherism. Now they represent - or are seen to represent - the metropolitan, the changing of values, the casting aside of the old ways before people are through with them. Maybe they’ll want to carry on with that and maybe it’d serve them well eventually. Change is inevitable after all*. But maybe also that’s why the Conservatives are now amazingly being projected to win the Hartlepool by-election in this poll.

 

 

*except from vending machines.

[Heathrow fox]

50 minutes ago, Dunge said:

I wasn’t expecting a poll like that.

 

I had a Tory leaflet through the door the other day, “vote X in the upcoming council election”, that sort of thing. Circulars like that head to the recycling in my house as I’m sure they do in most, but I do generally have a cursory glance to see what messages the parties are leading with - to see what they decide to put in the limited number of words that they can use in their summary headlines. The things that stood out to me in this one were:

 

- At least two mentions of working alongside the police;

- Commitment to tackling climate change;

- A mention of “protecting our way of life”.

 

I think these things are interesting because these are things that the party are choosing carefully because they believe they will resonate with people. In this case, policing may be a traditional Tory area but there have been controversies recently, yet it seems they really want to lead with it in Barrow & Quorn. Climate change is an interesting addition away from the more traditional narratives that they believe needs to be in there too. But that phrase “protecting our way of life” stood out to me most. That, to me, is worth noting because it’s linked to pace of change, and is also linked to the common mistake I see people make about thinking people in the provinces are obsessed with immigration. I don’t believe they are really. They just don’t want their lives uprooted and immigration is seen as a precursor to that.

 

I mention it because maybe that’s something where Labour won’t resonate with the people of Hartlepool, the red wall and the like. Back in the 70s and 80s, they represented the miners, the workers, but moreover continuation of way of life rather than the change of Thatcherism. Now they represent - or are seen to represent - the metropolitan, the changing of values, the casting aside of the old ways before people are through with them. Maybe they’ll want to carry on with that and maybe it’d serve them well eventually. Change is inevitable after all*. But maybe also that’s why the Conservatives are now amazingly being projected to win the Hartlepool by-election in this poll.

 

 

*except from vending machines.

Well the likes of George Galloway and Paul Embery have been more than mentioning this for sometime now.Labour should be able to put a bar stool up and win Hartlepool ffs.

[Leicester_Loyal]

1 hour ago, Dunge said:

I mention it because maybe that’s something where Labour won’t resonate with the people of Hartlepool, the red wall and the like. Back in the 70s and 80s, they represented the miners, the workers, but moreover continuation of way of life rather than the change of Thatcherism. Now they represent - or are seen to represent - the metropolitan, the changing of values, the casting aside of the old ways before people are through with them. Maybe they’ll want to carry on with that and maybe it’d serve them well eventually. Change is inevitable after all*. But maybe also that’s why the Conservatives are now amazingly being projected to win the Hartlepool by-election in this poll.

 

This has been said for years, nothing changes, they don't listen.

 

I'd vote against this Government in a heartbeat at the minute, but rather than going to Labour I'd end up going for an independent, which sums it up really. As working class people, it should be easy for us to vote for Labour, but I don't resonate with them at all, something needs to change.

[Leicester_Loyal]

2 hours ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

 

A result like this would a serious tick in the keeth for Starmer and Labour.

Exactly my point.

 

Hartlepool, which voted 70% in favour of Brexit, and what do Labour decide to do, select a candidate who's a staunch remainer, who has told everyone for the past four years the original vote was a mistake and we should have another vote on it. It's laughable how utterly clueless they are. Pick a local lad/lady, working class, someone who is well known within the city and you'll do much better. They shoehorn these cadidates in and they do absolutely nothing, it's truly shocking.

 

No matter how bad the Conservatives do, I think we're stuck with them for the next decade or so.

[CosbehFox]

7 hours ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

 

A result like this would a serious tick in the keeth for Starmer and Labour.

it’s an interesting one because the Tories vote was split by the Brexit Party hence Labour won at the last election. 
 

However, there will be part of that Brexit Party vote which used to be Labour which is now Tory. 
 

You are always struggling when you have a by-election because the previous MP has been a cock too. 

[urban.spaceman]

 

 

[Jon the Hat]

On 05/04/2021 at 02:20, ozleicester said:

cant believe anyone supports a show your papers before you can get on a bus idea.

Un-****ing believable isn't it.  Just mindbending.  Idiots everywhere.

[Jon the Hat]

17 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

 

As all of twitter has said, hidden clearly on the KS3 history syllabus for decades.  

[Sharpe's Fox]

20 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

 

Due to how latitude and longitude lines are drawn on most 2D maps we underestimate how big Africa is. It was a massive undertaking to colonise this continent by the European powers and it's shocking how they peacefully arranged to subjugate and torment native people  for their resources before going and doing it. This continued into living memory for example Britain held Mau Mau Kenyans in concentration camps in the 20th century (after the Holocaust!!!) to proceed to torture the men by ripping off their testicles with pliers.

 

Of course that isn't the worst of it where the entirety of the native peoples and their culture in the Americas and Australia was wiped off the face of the earth in 400 years due to colonialism. It is estimated 100 million people were killed in the Americas alone and their indiginous way of living gone with it. If people ask what "systemic racism" is it is an afterbirth of the brutal ideology that allowed these things to happen.

Edited 6 April 2021 by Sharpe's Fox

[Voll Blau]

Interesting that Starmer thinks he'll be fighting an election by 2023...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/apr/03/we-have-a-once-in-a-generation-chance-to-rethink-our-future-lets-get-britain-working-again

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, Jon the Hat said:

As all of twitter has said, hidden clearly on the KS3 history syllabus for decades.  

I've gotta say, as that is true, seeming apathy is probably worse than ignorance on something like this.

 

And to forestall the question that might get asked, what the nations involved should be doing now is doing more to help those African nations out of the hole their forerunners put them into - and in some cases are keeping them in the same holes today because it's politically expedient to do so.

 

No doubt realpolitik will mean it won't happen, though.

 

 

Edited 6 April 2021 by leicsmac