The Politics Thread 2020

[Voll Blau]

1 hour ago, StanSP said:

The Tories run the media so its no surprise there's a lack of attention on it. 

Even so, I reckon any previous Tory PM would have (rightly) got absolute pelters from all sides over something like this. Seems the acceptance of sleaze is now just the done thing when that wasn't always the case.

[Bellend Sebastian]

1 hour ago, Voll Blau said:

Rebranding the Slave Trade as the "Caribbean Experience" really is quite the thing. 

The Facebook racists are thrilled at this outcome, which they are expressing through their individual racism

[Greg2607]

4 hours ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

The view on Starmer and the conclusions drawn from polls remind me of how a football manager is viewed in the first part of the season after a few losses. 
 

There’s a very long time to the next election and issues will be zoned into the previous eighteen months. As much as the current lot have annoyed with COVID, it won’t be that what decides the next election. 
 

Thoroughly depressingly the lack of scrunity Johnson has faced with the Arcuri affair 

I quite like Starmer.  He is much more statesmanlike than the current buffoon.  He's also had quite a strong career prior to politics as opposed to writing a newspaper column.  It's like having the equivalent of Dear Deirdre in charge of our bloody country.

[CosbehFox]

4 hours ago, Innovindil said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56597771

 

One of the UK's leading brain surgeons, who has advanced prostate cancer, has said an inquiry into assisted dying is "absolutely essential".

 

Spot on. Long past time we had a proper talk about this. Instead of it being shut down on "but but but vulnerable people..." arguments. Get doctors involved, get discussing safeguards and get discussing giving people the choice of when they want to die. 

Would be very welcome here - I really wish I'd have been able to give my Mum the choice to do this. 

 

2 hours ago, StanSP said:

The Tories run the media so its no surprise there's a lack of attention on it. 

Yet similar examples ended the Tories time in power in the early 90s

[Stoopid]

1 hour ago, Greg2607 said:

I quite like Starmer.  He is much more statesmanlike than the current buffoon.  He's also had quite a strong career prior to politics as opposed to writing a newspaper column.  It's like having the equivalent of Dear Deirdre in charge of our bloody country.

I've always been a Labour voter,  but I have to say Sir Keir Starmer (steer calmer) is a dull fellow. 

I mean dull. 

What I'm saying is - God,  is he dull! 

[bovril]

Just now, Stoopid said:

I've always been a Labour voter,  but I have to say Sir Keir Starmer (steer calmer) is a dull fellow. 

I mean dull. 

What I'm saying is - God,  is he dull! 

I wouldn't mind a dull decade in the UK after what's happened recently. 

[Stoopid]

4 minutes ago, bovril said:

I wouldn't mind a dull decade in the UK after what's happened recently. 

Hmm...

You may have a point! 

[Finnaldo]

What frustrates me more than anything politically at the moment is just how lethargic politics is. I understand it’s a case where for optics sake we’re focusing on the Covid roadmap and all that comes with it. But in a time that’s post-Brexit and hopefully very soon, post-pandemic, we’re just as reactive as we always were. 
 

For an example, there was the story recently about Boris encouraging employees to get workers back into the office, basically sacrificing off any progress in productivity or worker QoL that’s came as one of the few happy byproducts of the lockdown and using it as life support for the high street model that was dying a death anyway. Flexi-WFH is clearly the future for those where it’s applicable and it’s simply self harm to the productivity of the nation to scrap it in a panic. 
 

If we’re worried about local economies, why don’t we look at proactive solutions? A well-funded, nationalised rail service, with ALL regions electrified? Bus systems similar to London and recently Manchester, where bus timetables and fares are set by local government and tendered for contract as such? Potential tram systems where available? All these transport systems consolidated in a Oyster card-like system across county and regional levels? 
 

This is just one example and yeah it takes investment, but we were promised a new direction under Brexit, and we’re currently heading in the same direction as before, but worse, stamping on work culture breakthroughs just to ensure the old way endures. I’m a believe in now we’re out of the EU, we’re out; but there needs to be incentives and clear proactive policy to show we’re actually serious about creating a new Britain outside the EU, and until that happens there’s going to be more cynicism and polarisation in across British society. 
 

And this doesn’t just go for government (although they are, as the ones with the power to change it, the bigger culprits) but if Labour is serious about winning back voters then it needs to prove it has a broad policy and plan to work for all. Sure we’ve seen you can’t promise the world but it needs to start offering a bold alternative in a new era. Currently, the government plod on whilst the opposition offer very little in substance to break the lethargy. 

[leicsmac]

21 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

What frustrates me more than anything politically at the moment is just how lethargic politics is. I understand it’s a case where for optics sake we’re focusing on the Covid roadmap and all that comes with it. But in a time that’s post-Brexit and hopefully very soon, post-pandemic, we’re just as reactive as we always were. 
 

For an example, there was the story recently about Boris encouraging employees to get workers back into the office, basically sacrificing off any progress in productivity or worker QoL that’s came as one of the few happy byproducts of the lockdown and using it as life support for the high street model that was dying a death anyway. Flexi-WFH is clearly the future for those where it’s applicable and it’s simply self harm to the productivity of the nation to scrap it in a panic. 
 

If we’re worried about local economies, why don’t we look at proactive solutions? A well-funded, nationalised rail service, with ALL regions electrified? Bus systems similar to London and recently Manchester, where bus timetables and fares are set by local government and tendered for contract as such? Potential tram systems where available? All these transport systems consolidated in a Oyster card-like system across county and regional levels? 
 

This is just one example and yeah it takes investment, but we were promised a new direction under Brexit, and we’re currently heading in the same direction as before, but worse, stamping on work culture breakthroughs just to ensure the old way endures. I’m a believe in now we’re out of the EU, we’re out; but there needs to be incentives and clear proactive policy to show we’re actually serious about creating a new Britain outside the EU, and until that happens there’s going to be more cynicism and polarisation in across British society. 
 

And this doesn’t just go for government (although they are, as the ones with the power to change it, the bigger culprits) but if Labour is serious about winning back voters then it needs to prove it has a broad policy and plan to work for all. Sure we’ve seen you can’t promise the world but it needs to start offering a bold alternative in a new era. Currently, the government plod on whilst the opposition offer very little in substance to break the lethargy. 

To be honest, when it comes to public transportation all the UK need do is look over here at a country with similar land area, population numbers, population centres and one of the best networks on the planet.

 

Copy it wholesale.

[Claridge]

2 hours ago, Stoopid said:

I've always been a Labour voter,  but I have to say Sir Keir Starmer (steer calmer) is a dull fellow. 

I mean dull. 

What I'm saying is - God,  is he dull! 

Its almost laughable hearing people trying to defend him.He is so boring and pompous at the same time. Labour needs to admit their mistake and try anybody else. When Boris is a Tory liability they will dump him ASAP.

Labour just seems to appeal to middle class public sector/media types, all this WOKE nonsense is a vote loser in working class areas. An election tomorrow and the Tories would have a 100 seat majority

[LiberalFox]

5 hours ago, Finnaldo said:

What frustrates me more than anything politically at the moment is just how lethargic politics is. I understand it’s a case where for optics sake we’re focusing on the Covid roadmap and all that comes with it. But in a time that’s post-Brexit and hopefully very soon, post-pandemic, we’re just as reactive as we always were. 
 

For an example, there was the story recently about Boris encouraging employees to get workers back into the office, basically sacrificing off any progress in productivity or worker QoL that’s came as one of the few happy byproducts of the lockdown and using it as life support for the high street model that was dying a death anyway. Flexi-WFH is clearly the future for those where it’s applicable and it’s simply self harm to the productivity of the nation to scrap it in a panic. 
 

If we’re worried about local economies, why don’t we look at proactive solutions? A well-funded, nationalised rail service, with ALL regions electrified? Bus systems similar to London and recently Manchester, where bus timetables and fares are set by local government and tendered for contract as such? Potential tram systems where available? All these transport systems consolidated in a Oyster card-like system across county and regional levels? 
 

This is just one example and yeah it takes investment, but we were promised a new direction under Brexit, and we’re currently heading in the same direction as before, but worse, stamping on work culture breakthroughs just to ensure the old way endures. I’m a believe in now we’re out of the EU, we’re out; but there needs to be incentives and clear proactive policy to show we’re actually serious about creating a new Britain outside the EU, and until that happens there’s going to be more cynicism and polarisation in across British society. 
 

And this doesn’t just go for government (although they are, as the ones with the power to change it, the bigger culprits) but if Labour is serious about winning back voters then it needs to prove it has a broad policy and plan to work for all. Sure we’ve seen you can’t promise the world but it needs to start offering a bold alternative in a new era. Currently, the government plod on whilst the opposition offer very little in substance to break the lethargy. 

Yeah I would like this from the opposition to be honest. Have some ambition. There's too much focus on fringe issues and the Tories just win because they have the media and the platform and because to be honest they have no conscience. 

[Sharpe's Fox]

6 hours ago, leicsmac said:

To be honest, when it comes to public transportation all the UK need do is look over here at a country with similar land area, population numbers, population centres and one of the best networks on the planet.

 

Copy it wholesale.

We don't need to look at any other country. London has world class public transport. It's probably quicker and cheaper for someone in London to get from Wembley to Greenwich than it is to get across Leicester.

[Claridge]

3 hours ago, LiberalFox said:

Yeah I would like this from the opposition to be honest. Have some ambition. There's too much focus on fringe issues and the Tories just win because they have the media and the platform and because to be honest they have no conscience. 

Nothing to do with labours complete ineptness in almost everything?purple patch when they became Tory under Blair

[leicsmac]

4 hours ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

We don't need to look at any other country. London has world class public transport. It's probably quicker and cheaper for someone in London to get from Wembley to Greenwich than it is to get across Leicester.

And I can get the same distance on the Seoul Underground network for half the price at off-peak times and a quarter of it at peak times, in about the same amount of time (trains every four minutes in the inner city areas, roughly). Additionally, I can get the same distance from Leicester to London on a bus or train for roughly half the price and a bit faster, and I can get the equivalent distance from London to Sheffield (Seoul to Gwangju) in an hour and forty-five minutes and costs 20 quid.

 

I think there's still some things that could be learned.

[Innovindil]

4 hours ago, leicsmac said:

And I can get the same distance on the Seoul Underground network for half the price at off-peak times and a quarter of it at peak times, in about the same amount of time (trains every four minutes in the inner city areas, roughly). Additionally, I can get the same distance from Leicester to London on a bus or train for roughly half the price and a bit faster, and I can get the equivalent distance from London to Sheffield (Seoul to Gwangju) in an hour and forty-five minutes and costs 20 quid.

 

I think there's still some things that could be learned.

Pretty sure our stuff would be cheaper with a £5 minimum wage too tbf. 

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, Innovindil said:

Pretty sure our stuff would be cheaper with a £5 minimum wage too tbf. 

That's a fair point - it is a more complex question than a simple amount comparison.

 

But I stand by what I say in that I think the public transport system here is top notch.

[DennisNedry]

On 01/04/2021 at 09:20, StanSP said:

The Tories run the media so its no surprise there's a lack of attention on it. 

What do you base this on? The (increasingly irrelevant) papers are obviously partisan but seem pretty much split down the middle for me. The Telegraph is the only 'reputable' right-leaning paper. The Mail and Sun are rags that are barely taken seriously and are mocked regularly in popular culture.  The Mirror is a lefty rag. The Guardian and Independent are very lefty and biased but somehow respected - they deserve the same ire as the Mail imo. The BBC is left-leaning.  

[StanSP]

9 minutes ago, DennisNedry said:

The BBC is left-leaning.  

I don't believe this is the case. 

Not when they hire a big Tory as director-general... 

[Voll Blau]

Everyone left and right seems to hate the BBC which is a pretty good indication that's it's not biased either way.

[Heathrow fox]

37 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

Everyone left and right seems to hate the BBC which is a pretty good indication that's it's not biased either way.

I don’t think there’s a more liberal right-on organisation currently in existence than the BBC.It used to be very conservative both politically and in it’s nature.It came across as very straight laced and prim and proper,with incredibly high standards,but also had the ability to jab with a bit of cutting edge programming.I don’t think the BBC liked Thatcher very much,but it definitely didn’t want a Labour government.It took until 1985 for it to lower it’s standards into making it’s first tv soap opera.That sort of muck was for the unwashed masses that watched ITV.

 

Fast forward a few decades.Politically it’s pro EU,anti Trump.Dislikes Johnson Hated Corbyn.Has become totally obsessed with race and gender.Turns everything into a lecture,and double ticks every box possible.No more is this change apparent than Radio 4.So no,it’s got no right wing bias and it’s got no (in my personal definition of) left wing bias either.But let’s not pretend it hasn’t got an agenda.Sticking the new matey up top is an attempt to make it look like it’s been told to tone down a bit.We shall see.

[Brizzle Fox]

1 hour ago, Voll Blau said:

Everyone left and right seems to hate the BBC which is a pretty good indication that's it's not biased either way.

Spot on for me. I think your view of perceived BBC bias very much comes from where you sit on the political spectrum.

For me it feels like the BBC, specifically from a news / politics perspective, is pretty much a Tory mouthpiece (except for Newsnight), representing the Tory agenda at every opportunity under the guise of 'balance' and forever failing to hold the government to account. 

However I accept this is probably my own bias coming into play, if others regard it as the exact opposite. 

[Lionator]

23 hours ago, Finnaldo said:

What frustrates me more than anything politically at the moment is just how lethargic politics is. I understand it’s a case where for optics sake we’re focusing on the Covid roadmap and all that comes with it. But in a time that’s post-Brexit and hopefully very soon, post-pandemic, we’re just as reactive as we always were. 
 

For an example, there was the story recently about Boris encouraging employees to get workers back into the office, basically sacrificing off any progress in productivity or worker QoL that’s came as one of the few happy byproducts of the lockdown and using it as life support for the high street model that was dying a death anyway. Flexi-WFH is clearly the future for those where it’s applicable and it’s simply self harm to the productivity of the nation to scrap it in a panic. 
 

If we’re worried about local economies, why don’t we look at proactive solutions? A well-funded, nationalised rail service, with ALL regions electrified? Bus systems similar to London and recently Manchester, where bus timetables and fares are set by local government and tendered for contract as such? Potential tram systems where available? All these transport systems consolidated in a Oyster card-like system across county and regional levels? 
 

This is just one example and yeah it takes investment, but we were promised a new direction under Brexit, and we’re currently heading in the same direction as before, but worse, stamping on work culture breakthroughs just to ensure the old way endures. I’m a believe in now we’re out of the EU, we’re out; but there needs to be incentives and clear proactive policy to show we’re actually serious about creating a new Britain outside the EU, and until that happens there’s going to be more cynicism and polarisation in across British society. 
 

And this doesn’t just go for government (although they are, as the ones with the power to change it, the bigger culprits) but if Labour is serious about winning back voters then it needs to prove it has a broad policy and plan to work for all. Sure we’ve seen you can’t promise the world but it needs to start offering a bold alternative in a new era. Currently, the government plod on whilst the opposition offer very little in substance to break the lethargy. 

Without going all Adam Curtis, the general population are content with the way that things are and are scared of change. This works for the government because it means that they can keep the capitalism status quo. Corbyn offered perhaps the only meaningful option to change our way of living for an alternative future and look how that turned out. 

 

I wish Burnham would give Westminster another go, I think he could be good at changing the image of Labour until a genuine star comes along. Sounds like he's happy in Manchester though.

[Claridge]

11 hours ago, Voll Blau said:

Everyone left and right seems to hate the BBC which is a pretty good indication that's it's not biased either way.

Or that it is crap and should be completely de funded from the taxpayer. Although I do like the Archers

[CosbehFox]

19 hours ago, Heathrow fox said:

I don’t think there’s a more liberal right-on organisation currently in existence than the BBC.It used to be very conservative both politically and in it’s nature.It came across as very straight laced and prim and proper,with incredibly high standards,but also had the ability to jab with a bit of cutting edge programming.I don’t think the BBC liked Thatcher very much,but it definitely didn’t want a Labour government.It took until 1985 for it to lower it’s standards into making it’s first tv soap opera.That sort of muck was for the unwashed masses that watched ITV.

 

Fast forward a few decades.Politically it’s pro EU,anti Trump.Dislikes Johnson Hated Corbyn.Has become totally obsessed with race and gender.Turns everything into a lecture,and double ticks every box possible.No more is this change apparent than Radio 4.So no,it’s got no right wing bias and it’s got no (in my personal definition of) left wing bias either.But let’s not pretend it hasn’t got an agenda.Sticking the new matey up top is an attempt to make it look like it’s been told to tone down a bit.We shall see.

Any examples to what you are saying? 
 

Curious to see how people think it’s become ‘right on’

[Mike Oxlong]

Sounds like Alan Duncan’s book could be an entertaining read 

 

 

 

Sir Alan, who quit as an MP in 2019 after 27 years in the Commons, unleashes his barbs in his diaries entitled The Thick Of It, which is being serialised in the Daily Mail.

As well as describing Mr Johnson as a "clown", he claims they had a row over a report about diplomats treating him as an "international joke".

When Mr Johnson is said to have asked, "Why don't they take me seriously?", Sir Alan claims he replied: "Look in the ****ing mirror!"

 

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/boris-johnson-among-top-tories-savaged-in-book-by-pms-former-deputy-12264314