Coronavirus Thread

[fuchsntf]

3 hours ago, simFox said:

A sensible alternative would be to social distance, put sensible and reasonable measures in place, shield and protect the susceptible, use what's been shown to work best with the least economic shock, saving millions of people's livelihoods.

 

 

I would say those so called "susceptible" have now been proven to be an unknown ,plus a bit more wide spread.

Simular to those few young fit People who have been drawn into the equation......

 

@simFox I Enjoy your posts on This subject. You bring other Perspectives & View points....Some of them like other posters,I disagree with,

others that can be seen as valuable unknowns,then some that run against the tide,where the agrieved, would like to Invite  you to their own ICU-party

You have taken a hardened open path you want to Run with, but  still show  some flexabilty..

 

In this Covid-period  where many unknowns abound ,plus politicans totally ignoring facts, and in UK especially, few if any  wise descisions coming from the corridors of power. Where it seems more Advisors have too much (incompetent) clout..!!

Though to be fair..Joe Public/the electorate cant Cover themselves in Glory,having also shown what ignoramious ,undisciplined self-centred cretins they are... 

 

Not having the mental-discipline capability in a pandemic just to sit and wait 2020 out , though still being able to have movement.

Actually trying to do a Dell-boy,and by their actions saying " ****-you"!!!

Just to steal a few months as self-opinionated , immature know-all ASBOS.....Then crying like Babies when quarantine is thrown at them.One cant Blame here

the governments...They People their choice, knowing we were in the Middle of the Covid-unknowns & pandemic-society issues,but  are/were not prepared to

take on the obvious consequences...I

No wise or clever, Working-class,middle-class, toff-nosed-class, thoughts among the whole Civilised educated populations....

We are only as wise,clever & strong as our weakest.....!!

 

 

[davieG]

 

 

This portrait is made with the pictures of all the doctors and nurses who passed away in this pandemic. Enlarge it and you will see.

[simFox]

1 hour ago, WigstonWanderer said:

The US situation is still evolving. They still have a long way to go before they are out of the mess they’ve created. 

Which could in fairness show perceived incompetence as being the correct path. In the context of achieving herd immunity and the ability put this sorry episode behind them quicker than many yet to begin.

 

It will be an interesting how we look back and contemplate what we've been through. If anything, future reactions in the way we handle pandemics should make put us in a better place, so there is some good to be extrapolated out of the worst approaches.

[zorro en españa]

Hello all - I have a reason to go on the Bluemoon forum and just recently I have seen their “coronavirus thread” ... worth a look if you have the time.  A contributor seems to spend a lot of time delving into statistics and, having dissected a lot of the NW information has posted this:
 

“Other watch areas.

Blackburn - just 6 cases - down from 16 and 12 last 2 days. Pop score 1127. 

Bradford - 24 cases - down from 43 and 26 last 2 days. Pop score 1063.

Leicester - 17 cases (lowest in some time) - down from 35 and 21 last 2 days. Pop score 1536.


All three places here following the same steady drop we saw in Greater Manchester. 

Hopefully this is not just a blip but an ongoing trend. Coming days will show.“

[simFox]

1 hour ago, fuchsntf said:

I would say those so called "susceptible" have now been proven to be an unknown ,plus a bit more wide spread.

Simular to those few young fit People who have been drawn into the equation......

 

@simFox I Enjoy your posts on This subject. You bring other Perspectives & View points....Some of them like other posters,I disagree with,

others that can be seen as valuable unknowns,then some that run against the tide,where the agrieved, would like to Invite  you to their own ICU-party

You have taken a hardened open path you want to Run with, but  still show  some flexabilty..

 

In this Covid-period  where many unknowns abound ,plus politicans totally ignoring facts, and in UK especially, few if any  wise descisions coming from the corridors of power. Where it seems more Advisors have too much (incompetent) clout..!!

Though to be fair..Joe Public/the electorate cant Cover themselves in Glory,having also shown what ignoramious ,undisciplined self-centred cretins they are... 

 

Not having the mental-discipline capability in a pandemic just to sit and wait 2020 out , though still being able to have movement.

Actually trying to do a Dell-boy,and by their actions saying " ****-you"!!!

Just to steal a few months as self-opinionated , immature know-all ASBOS.....Then crying like Babies when quarantine is thrown at them.One cant Blame here

the governments...They People their choice, knowing we were in the Middle of the Covid-unknowns & pandemic-society issues,but  are/were not prepared to

take on the obvious consequences...I

No wise or clever, Working-class,middle-class, toff-nosed-class, thoughts among the whole Civilised educated populations....

We are only as wise,clever & strong as our weakest.....!!

 

 

Thanks for the semi complement. It does feel like me against the forum at times, but that's ok.

 

Like I said, I could understand the lockdown and why we did it, I supported the decision, though I was disappointed we followed the rest of Europe into lockdown, rather than take a more "British" steely approach after listening to Chris Whitty's alternative strategy, which seemed to infer a heard immunity as an objective to get us out on the other side quickly. I'm ex army and proud to be British, stepping into the beach and taking things head on is what this nation is built on, instead we basically hid behind the couch, but not only that, we've blimmin stayed there!

 

So sod it, I'm sticking my head above the parapet. 

 

 

[zorro en españa]

It is crucially important that we look for alternative ways forward and I would like to think the debates in the “advanced” countries was taking it forward. To do this effectively you need the Mavericks and not the sycophants to be at the head of govt.

 

But I will always maintain the way forward can not be conjecture.  There is plenty information out there but, I fear, govts have all moved towards being ultra cautious and are more interested in manipulating the information rather than using it (I will exempt Belgium from this and, possibly, Ireland).

 

I would love to see govts adopt a coherent approach across the political spectrum, clearly spelled out to its citizens, about how it will take forward the next steps.  The debate, as can be seen here, is worth having.  Unfortunately egos get in the way of advancing such a prospect and I fear we are going to be swaying between “ideas” for some time to come.

 

SimFox - as you have stepped to the mantle ...... what five things would you be advising the UK govt to do in the next month.

 

Others .... please feel free to join in.   I don’t think the concept is particularly easy

[Chrysalis]

So the government did answer the FOI.

 

I will attach the spreadsheet they provided which shows test count per local authority.  

 

 

I had a quick glance

 

17k tests in Derby population 256k Tests per 1000 people 0.06

84k in Leicester population 330k Tests per 1000 people 0.25

40k tests in Manchester population 510k Tests per 1000 people 0.07

 

City of London 295 Population 9401 Tests per 1000 people, brain is farting at doing this because the low number, but this looks like a high % of people.

 

If we had same test count as Derby in my opinion we wouldnt be in lockdown.

FOI 1238042 attachment.xlsx

Edited 17 August 2020 by Chrysalis

[Lionator]

Our daily statistics would indicate that we're just about keeping a lid on things where other countries in Europe are struggling. Only (lol) 713 cases today with a very high number of tests and it seems to be a lot less than last week. Furthermore our hospitalisations and deaths are still reducing which is a positive sign. It seems our track n trace (although I would thank local public health teams rather than Dido Harding's numpties) is doing an effective job. 

[Chrysalis]

On 15/08/2020 at 22:28, stix said:

100% agree with this. And the real problem here is....if this continues past the scheduled term start date, I think my girls will turn into actual vegetables!!!

Easy to agree with it when you not in a local lockdown area, my rule is simple, if you have to tell people they not allowed to see their loved ones, then schools shouldnt be opening, you pair the two things up, want to open schools? then remove local lockdown.  

 

So your girls who have had effectively a month or so off school (summer holidays accounts for rest) are about to turn into vegetables, it does help if you dont exaggerate things.

 

Edited 17 August 2020 by Chrysalis

[WigstonWanderer]

2 hours ago, simFox said:

Which could in fairness show perceived incompetence as being the correct path. In the context of achieving herd immunity and the ability put this sorry episode behind them quicker than many yet to begin.

 

It will be an interesting how we look back and contemplate what we've been through. If anything, future reactions in the way we handle pandemics should make put us in a better place, so there is some good to be extrapolated out of the worst approaches.

I agree that the best strategy won’t be clear perhaps for many years. I doubt that there will be any one clear strategy, as what is good or even possible for New Zealand won’t be the same as that for say India.

 

However, I do believe that for those jurisdictions that have decided to actively suppress and control the spread of the virus, it is quite clear that to make this strategy work it is necessary to take strong action early on whenever control has been lost and the Test and Trace scheme has been overwhelmed. That was the original point I was making. This is what Jacinda Ardern is attempting to do in New Zealand, and hopefully it will allow them to regain control in Auckland at relatively low cost, both in lives and economically.

Edited 17 August 2020 by WigstonWanderer

[Paninistickers]

7 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

Easy to agree with it when you not in a local lockdown area, my rule is simple, if you have to tell people they not allowed to see their loved ones, then schools shouldnt be opening, you pair the two things up, want to open schools? then remove local lockdown.  

 

So your girls who have had effectively a month or so off school (summer holidays accounts for rest) are about to turn into vegetables, it does help if you dont exaggerate things.

 

15 weeks off school. Slightly more than a 'month or so'. Plus of course 7 weeks summer holiday. 5 months of no education. That's not on. 

 

I repeat a point I've made, one way or another, these last few months. 

 

Children's education (particularly vulnerable kids)

Hundreds of billions of quid borrowed

An almost total destruction of some industries and massive damage to most of the surviving economy.

Huge unemployment

Civil liberties, freedom of travel, leisure activities and.personal privacy totally bulldozed.  

 

...all for a virus that generally speaking, kills a small  % of the over 80s  - and most of those fatalities  caused by multiple co-morbidities. 

 

The trade off is way way too much

 

 

 

 

[simFox]

51 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Our daily statistics would indicate that we're just about keeping a lid on things where other countries in Europe are struggling. Only (lol) 713 cases today with a very high number of tests and it seems to be a lot less than last week. Furthermore our hospitalisations and deaths are still reducing which is a positive sign. It seems our track n trace (although I would thank local public health teams rather than Dido Harding's numpties) is doing an effective job. 

I've always been impressed with the UK's track and trace. They got in touch with me once when I was on my to the clinic with a dose, no idea how they got my number because I rarely gave it out. They asked me who i'd slept with those last few weeks and I was a bit vague, most notably as it included a few fatties, but they found them soon enough. Got my drunk excuses in early though.

Edited 17 August 2020 by simFox

[Chrysalis]

21 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

15 weeks off school. Slightly more than a 'month or so'. Plus of course 7 weeks summer holiday. 5 months of no education. That's not on. 

 

I repeat a point I've made, one way or another, these last few months. 

 

Children's education (particularly vulnerable kids)

Hundreds of billions of quid borrowed

An almost total destruction of some industries and massive damage to most of the surviving economy.

Huge unemployment

Civil liberties, freedom of travel, leisure activities and.personal privacy totally bulldozed.  

 

...all for a virus that generally speaking, kills a small  % of the over 80s  - and most of those fatalities  caused by multiple co-morbidities. 

 

The trade off is way way too much

 

 

 

 

Schools closed March 20

Reopened First week of June

 

So granted it was 2 months, but not 15 weeks. (6 weeks actually due to half term)

 

As I said though 2 months is easy to make up, you add a year to schooling, or reduce holidays for a few years. 

 

I will never agree to the idea that on one hand you telling people they cannot meet close family, but you letting kids go to school, kids going to school is about as risky as it gets, if you allow that. there is no excuse for the former really.

 

People have also forgotten the Leicester spike started in a school.

 

If you are agreeing with me though that you let them back then the civil liberties should also be lifted, then I agree.  The issue I have is kids going back to school in areas of local lockdown that the government is claiming are risky numbers of infections.

 

For some reason the government is clinging onto not allowing family to visit each other, as if they think thats the most risky activity.  What is clear instead is they prioritising based on economic need.  So I effectively dont respect or trust them anymore when it comes to this virus, and this is the reason I dont take this lockdown seriously.  An example as well been you have to wear masks to a shop but you can go to pubs and restaurants without one.

Edited 17 August 2020 by Chrysalis

[Paninistickers]

3 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

Schools closed March 20

Reopened First week of June

 

So granted it was 2 months, but not 15 weeks.

 

As I said though 2 months is easy to make up, you add a year to schooling, or reduce holidays for a few years. 

 

I will never agree to the idea that on one hand you telling people they cannot meet close family, but you letting kids go to school, kids going to school is about as risky as it gets, if you allow that. there is no excuse for the former really.

 

People have also forgotten the Leicester spike started in a school.

 

If you are agreeing with me though that you let them back then the civil liberties should also be lifted, then I agree.  The issue I have is kids going back to school in areas of local lockdown that the government is claiming are risky numbers of infections.

 

For some reason the government is clinging onto not allowing family to visit each other, as if they think thats the most risky activity.  What is clear instead is they prioritising based on economic need.  So I effectively dont respect or trust them anymore when it comes to this virus, and this is the reason I dont take this lockdown seriously.  An example as well been you have to wear masks to a shop but you can go to pubs and restaurants without one.

I agree with almost everything you've put. But have I missed something with the schools?

 

My 2 haven't been to school since late March. Did I miss the chance to send them back?!

 

 

[Izzy]

2 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

I agree with almost everything you've put. But have I missed something with the schools?

 

My 2 haven't been to school since late March. Did I miss the chance to send them back?!

 

Same here.

 

Some primary schools reopened for certain year groups on certain days I think but as far as I know, all secondary schools have been closed for 15 weeks as you say.

 

And you can add my two kids to the list of vegetables. They've both regressed massively and desperately need some structure and discipline back in their lives.

 

Coronavirus: Poor pupils facing 'two-year catch up after lockdown'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-53804740

[stix]

1 hour ago, Chrysalis said:

Easy to agree with it when you not in a local lockdown area, my rule is simple, if you have to tell people they not allowed to see their loved ones, then schools shouldnt be opening, you pair the two things up, want to open schools? then remove local lockdown.  

 

So your girls who have had effectively a month or so off school (summer holidays accounts for rest) are about to turn into vegetables, it does help if you dont exaggerate things.

 

My girls have been off school since the end of March. 
 

Summer holidays started middle of July

Edited 17 August 2020 by stix

[Heathrow fox]

Am I missing something with the schools.Extending for a year would need more teachers wouldn’t it?Where do we get those from then?Reducing holidays would also come with problems.Arent the holidays structured the way they are because kids need a break?15 weeks to drag back is a heck of a long time.How do schools fit in important maintenance work etc?

[yorkie1999]

3 hours ago, Chrysalis said:

So the government did answer the FOI.

 

I will attach the spreadsheet they provided which shows test count per local authority.  

 

 

I had a quick glance

 

17k tests in Derby population 256k Tests per 1000 people 0.06

84k in Leicester population 330k Tests per 1000 people 0.25

40k tests in Manchester population 510k Tests per 1000 people 0.07

 

City of London 295 Population 9401 Tests per 1000 people, brain is farting at doing this because the low number, but this looks like a high % of people.

 

If we had same test count as Derby in my opinion we wouldnt be in lockdown.

FOI 1238042 attachment.xlsx 1.88 MB · 3 downloads

It's because you don't have to live in an area to have a test done there, so i bet there was a test centre in the city of london, which has a small population cos it's not very big.  One of my relations lives near Leicester but was sent to Edgbaston to have a test

[yorkie1999]

1 hour ago, Izzy said:

Same here.

 

Some primary schools reopened for certain year groups on certain days I think but as far as I know, all secondary schools have been closed for 15 weeks as you say.

 

And you can add my two kids to the list of vegetables. They've both regressed massively and desperately need some structure and discipline back in their lives.

 

Coronavirus: Poor pupils facing 'two-year catch up after lockdown'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-53804740

But i thought the teachers were hard at work with online teaching, setting assignments, ensuring their pupils we're continuing to study and doing all that education stuff from home, well that's what they said, maybe now judgement time is upon us, the excuses will start emerging.

[yorkie1999]

1 hour ago, Heathrow fox said:

Am I missing something with the schools.Extending for a year would need more teachers wouldn’t it?Where do we get those from then?Reducing holidays would also come with problems.Arent the holidays structured the way they are because kids need a break?15 weeks to drag back is a heck of a long time.How do schools fit in important maintenance work etc?

Would it be such a hardship to hold the first year back and every student just remain at school for one year, there wouldn't be a problem with all the exam results either.

[BKLFox]

13 hours ago, zorro en españa said:

Hello all - I have a reason to go on the Bluemoon forum and just recently I have seen their “coronavirus thread” ... worth a look if you have the time.  A contributor seems to spend a lot of time delving into statistics and, having dissected a lot of the NW information has posted this:
 

“Other watch areas.

Blackburn - just 6 cases - down from 16 and 12 last 2 days. Pop score 1127. 

Bradford - 24 cases - down from 43 and 26 last 2 days. Pop score 1063.

Leicester - 17 cases (lowest in some time) - down from 35 and 21 last 2 days. Pop score 1536.


All three places here following the same steady drop we saw in Greater Manchester. 

Hopefully this is not just a blip but an ongoing trend. Coming days will show.“

Up the road in Newark will be next to lockdown, 72 new cases reported in a factory.

 

[simFox]

9 hours ago, yorkie1999 said:

Would it be such a hardship to hold the first year back and every student just remain at school for one year, there wouldn't be a problem with all the exam results either.

Forever?

 

You hold everyone back for a year, at what point does everyone catch up? Does that mean my 2yo cant start until she's 5?

[simFox]

11 hours ago, Paninistickers said:

I agree with almost everything you've put. But have I missed something with the schools?

 

My 2 haven't been to school since late March. Did I miss the chance to send them back?!

 

 

We got a questionnaire around April/May time, it was full of leading questions

 

The government has said xxxx, do you want your children to go back to school despite the unknown risk to children and teachers (etc etc)....

 

We basically said yes to everything and my daughter went back a week or so later. I didn't think they would actually, because my wife doesn't work and i'm not a key worker, so its not like it affected us with our working lives, but it turned out that only the people who wanted the children to go back were allowed to and the class sizes were significantly reduced. If we were late or didn't attend, our slot would have been taken away, they seemed quite clear about that.

[yorkie1999]

13 minutes ago, simFox said:

Forever?

 

You hold everyone back for a year, at what point does everyone catch up? Does that mean my 2yo cant start until she's 5?

What's the problem with that, kids don't start school until they're 7 in Finland, yet have the highest education standards in Europe plus have 11 week summer holidays. Most of Europe is the same. School is about education, not just somewhere to stick your kids whilst you go to work, and a child that is just a couple of years more mature is a far better student. If the world is changing it's about time the UK used the opportunity to re-think what we do and  caught up with the rest of Europe instead of relying on victorian ideas that were set up to allow poorer people to be able to work whilst their children had basically a group child minder.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7234578.stm

[filbertway]

11 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

What's the problem with that, kids don't start school until they're 7 in Finland, yet have the highest education standards in Europe plus have 11 week summer holidays. Most of Europe is the same. School is about education, not just somewhere to stick your kids whilst you go to work, and a child that is just a couple of years more mature is a far better student. If the world is changing it's about time the UK used the opportunity to re-think what we do and  caught up with the rest of Europe instead of relying on victorian ideas that were set up to allow poorer people to be able to work whilst their children had basically a group child minder.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7234578.stm

Kids are bad enough at communicating normally now that they're stuck to their devices and it's becoming the norm. Taking another 2 years of meeting new kids from them seems insane to me.