Odsonne Edouard

[Bossman Blessed It]

I think it's perhaps slightly reductive to take the newspaper interpretation that we are going to definitely sell Iheanacho to get Eduoard, given that another quite viable possibility is that the latter might be viewed as a long-term replacement for Vardy over the next couple of years. Although Youtube is by no means gospel, it seems that Eduoard is very different player to Iheanacho - he seems more of a conventional number 9. Sufficed to say, it looks like Brendan doesn't trust Iheanacho to play as the only striker - but I don't think he's lost faith in his usefulness in our team; perhaps looking at him more as a supporting striker. 

[fox_up_north]

I really don't feel like Edouard is going to come here. If any half decent Champs League team look at him he'll go there every time. They can offer bigger money, for a start. 

[TMELcfc]

37 minutes ago, RonnieTodger said:

I can remember getting up early (for me anyway) to watch that game... 

[messerschmitt]

46 minutes ago, murphy said:

I still have high hopes for Benkovic.

 

Forget about the SPL standard.  If we all thought like that the likes of Di Canio, Van Hooijdonk, Viduka, Petrov, VVD, Tierney etc would never have made it.  If we get cold feet because of SPL snobbery we could miss out on a gem.

 

Personally, I think he will end up at a bigger club.

I agree with you, I'm puzzeled by Benkovic, look back at my other posts about him. I've never seen a CB as good on the ball and dribbling and passing. I hope we see the best of him in a Leicester shirt.

I also would love to see Edouard here, but not at the expense of Iheanacho. If we could only have one I'd keep Iheanacho. I'm also surprised we only have 2 real strikers in the squad. We had 4 in the team or on the bench for 2014-15, Ulloa, Nugent, Wood and Vardy. When you consider we've recently had 2 left backs out injured, we've been lucky that Either Iheanacho or Vardy have been available. With the extra fixtures I think we need 3.

[Kevin Russell]

38 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

You're assigning words and ideas to me that aren't mine, I'm not forgetting anything he's done or dismissing his contribution this season. I've spent more time arguing the value of Iheanacho over the last eighteen months than probably any other of our players. 

 

What I mean by peak foxestalk is the crazy phenomena on here of polarisation, players are either Josh Low or Messi at any given time, there's never any balanced view. 

 

The balanced view of Iheanacho is, like I said, he's a tidy top flight footballer. But that doesn't mean there aren't other players in the world better and if we've got a chance to upgrade him we should probably do so while his value has recovered a little. 

 

Edouard is just better, actually watch a few Celtic games, comparing him to Slimani is nonsense, Slimani can barely trap a football, he was always limited even at Sporting. 

 

The notion of "potential" is one of the most frustratingly over hyped ideas in football, perpetuated by the average Internet l football fan's comorbid obsession with fifa or FM. Players don't magically transform in to versions of themselves with better stats. 

 

Iheanacho isn't going to turn in to Ronaldo just because we play him in enough games. He's not a 17 year old apprentice, he's nearly 24 years old, if he gets a solid run under a manager who believes in him I don't doubt he'll grow in confidence, relax in to his role and score a few more goals. 

 

But besides that, eh. He's done nothing this season to demonstrate he could lead the line as our number one striker. He doesn't even function all that well when played alone as a 9, I'm pretty sure when he arrived he identified more as a 10 and it shows. He's infinitely better when played WITH Vardy, which isn't what we need. 

 

We need a 9, an outright 9, someone to alternate with and eventually replace Vards. Edouard is that sort of player. 

I said we need a 9 as well as Nacho. I said Edouard is a good player. I didn’t compare Edouard to Slimani at all...,I said there is always a degree of risk in transferring players from leagues where the standard is not as high as in the English top flight. Actually, I said there is risk in the transfer market in general, which is very well documented.

To be honest, I’m not sure this post responds at all to my previous post at all.

 

Some players do transform with age by the way - see Vardy, Ings, Kane. Some don’t transition as well into their mid 20s from promising starts and fail to fulfil their potential. Th

 
I don’t see why Rogers should let go of Nacho who is playing v well and seems to have a great attitude. Nothing in your post above makes much sense to me; and certainly doesn’t convince me that getting rid of Nacho is a good idea. Personally given the choice I would rather sell Perez.

[Nicolo Barella]

2 hours ago, AKCJ said:

Greenwood has something like 15 goals for Manchester United?

 

Hirst has played about 30 minutes of football for us.

I realise I wasn't clear. What I meant was, Man Utd is the team with the most striker depth that I can think of, and one of them is an 18 year old youth product who can play on the wing and be happy with bench time as he is still extremely young. Ighalo is a player past his prime and happy to be a backup because he loves the club. If we sign Edouard, we would have the reigning golden boot winner and two very talented young players entering their prime who need gametime as striker options. So the only club with comparable depth (Man Utd) actually has a very different situation to us. I wouldn't mind signing Edouard were we planning to use a two striker formation much more next season, but if not, it makes no sense and is not an efficient use of our money, particularly as the lack of gametime would likely seriously devalue whichever of Iheanacho or Edouard missed out more. No other team in the premier league, not even Manchester City, has more than two striker options.

[Nicolo Barella]

20 minutes ago, messerschmitt said:

I agree with you, I'm puzzeled by Benkovic, look back at my other posts about him. I've never seen a CB as good on the ball and dribbling and passing. I hope we see the best of him in a Leicester shirt.

I also would love to see Edouard here, but not at the expense of Iheanacho. If we could only have one I'd keep Iheanacho. I'm also surprised we only have 2 real strikers in the squad. We had 4 in the team or on the bench for 2014-15, Ulloa, Nugent, Wood and Vardy. When you consider we've recently had 2 left backs out injured, we've been lucky that Either Iheanacho or Vardy have been available. With the extra fixtures I think we need 3.

We had 4 strikers because we mostly played 2 up top, no? Now that we mostly play 1 up top, we don't really need more than two

[Finnegan]

Vardy, Ings and Kane are pretty solid examples of players that didn't magically develop, they were always good. 

 

In fact, Vards really backs up the point on Edouard. Vards was banging them in at lower league, racing off the shoulder of the last man and scoring across the keeper. Then he signed for a Championship club and after a short crisis of confidence adjusting, went straight on racing off the shoulder of the last man and scoring across the keeper. That wasn't Vards magically growing at a player, it was just him adjusting to a step up then carrying straight on doing what he does.

 

Then he was promoted to the Premier League where, you guessed it, in one of his first Premier League games, against Manchester United, he absolutely tore them apart racing off the shoulder of the last man and, aw, we all know the rest. The following season, against the same club, he broke the Premier League record got consecutive goals and fired a team to the title in only his second ever top flight season. 

 

Vardy didn't need to find any untapped potential, he was always class, he just needed to step up and show it. From non league, of all places, yet Edouard can't do the same from a club that plays in Europe? 

 

Then you want to talk about Harry Kane. That's even worse for your argument, he'd played a small handful of loan games at Championship clubs and Tottenham threw him straight in the deep end as an untested 21 hear old to start alone up front. We all laughed, thinking he was crap because he played two games on loan here out of position. 

 

He took to Premier League football instantly like a duck to water and went on an absolute goal scoring rampage straight off the bat. 21 goals in 34 league games in his first full season. We all kept calling it a purple patch, waiting for his bubble to burst and now however many years later we look pretty dumb. 

 

As for Danny Ings, Danny Ings did so well in his first Premier League season, playing for a terrible Burnley side (11 league goals at about one in three) that he got his move to Liverpool. That's off the back of 21 league goals in the Championship aged, what, 21? Injuries then go on to destroy the best part of five years of his career but lo and behold he goes back to scoring once he finally gets healthy. 

 

Now look, I'm not saying players don't improve. You do something all day every day for living, you're going to get better at it to a point. Maturity and experience play a huge part (especially in defenders), you can see that in the way that Vards is changing his game as he slows. 

 

But this is a slow, growing process throughout a career, not some rapid transformation that turns Demarai Gray in to Ronaldo because he can do a few step overs, which is exactly what this forum banged on about for years. I've no doubt Iheanacho will improve throughout his career but it's not giving up on some potential world class forward if you sell a 23, 24 year old forward who has never scored league double figures in his entire life (at any level) and who has 46 goals in 162 appearances, all competitions, in his career. 

 

 

[Ric Flair]

1 hour ago, lcfceaves said:

I can remember getting up early (for me anyway) to watch that game... 

Same, I was in a tent in Eastbourne watching it at about 5am. The lowest of the low that is.

[Steve Earle]

53 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

Vardy, Ings and Kane are pretty solid examples of players that didn't magically develop, they were always good. 

 

In fact, Vards really backs up the point on Edouard. Vards was banging them in at lower league, racing off the shoulder of the last man and scoring across the keeper. Then he signed for a Championship club and after a short crisis of confidence adjusting, went straight on racing off the shoulder of the last man and scoring across the keeper. That wasn't Vards magically growing at a player, it was just him adjusting to a step up then carrying straight on doing what he does.

 

Then he was promoted to the Premier League where, you guessed it, in one of his first Premier League games, against Manchester United, he absolutely tore them apart racing off the shoulder of the last man and, aw, we all know the rest. The following season, against the same club, he broke the Premier League record got consecutive goals and fired a team to the title in only his second ever top flight season. 

 

Vardy didn't need to find any untapped potential, he was always class, he just needed to step up and show it. From non league, of all places, yet Edouard can't do the same from a club that plays in Europe? 

 

Then you want to talk about Harry Kane. That's even worse for your argument, he'd played a small handful of loan games at Championship clubs and Tottenham threw him straight in the deep end as an untested 21 hear old to start alone up front. We all laughed, thinking he was crap because he played two games on loan here out of position. 

 

He took to Premier League football instantly like a duck to water and went on an absolute goal scoring rampage straight off the bat. 21 goals in 34 league games in his first full season. We all kept calling it a purple patch, waiting for his bubble to burst and now however many years later we look pretty dumb. 

 

As for Danny Ings, Danny Ings did so well in his first Premier League season, playing for a terrible Burnley side (11 league goals at about one in three) that he got his move to Liverpool. That's off the back of 21 league goals in the Championship aged, what, 21? Injuries then go on to destroy the best part of five years of his career but lo and behold he goes back to scoring once he finally gets healthy. 

 

Now look, I'm not saying players don't improve. You do something all day every day for living, you're going to get better at it to a point. Maturity and experience play a huge part (especially in defenders), you can see that in the way that Vards is changing his game as he slows. 

 

But this is a slow, growing process throughout a career, not some rapid transformation that turns Demarai Gray in to Ronaldo because he can do a few step overs, which is exactly what this forum banged on about for years. I've no doubt Iheanacho will improve throughout his career but it's not giving up on some potential world class forward if you sell a 23, 24 year old forward who has never scored league double figures in his entire life (at any level) and who has 46 goals in 162 appearances, all competitions, in his career. 

 

 

Vardy? Slowing? I won't have it @Finnegan, not happening now or any time soon!

Edited 4 August 2020 by Steve Earle

[Kevin Russell]

2 hours ago, Finnegan said:

Vardy, Ings and Kane are pretty solid examples of players that didn't magically develop, they were always good. 

 

In fact, Vards really backs up the point on Edouard. Vards was banging them in at lower league, racing off the shoulder of the last man and scoring across the keeper. Then he signed for a Championship club and after a short crisis of confidence adjusting, went straight on racing off the shoulder of the last man and scoring across the keeper. That wasn't Vards magically growing at a player, it was just him adjusting to a step up then carrying straight on doing what he does.

 

Then he was promoted to the Premier League where, you guessed it, in one of his first Premier League games, against Manchester United, he absolutely tore them apart racing off the shoulder of the last man and, aw, we all know the rest. The following season, against the same club, he broke the Premier League record got consecutive goals and fired a team to the title in only his second ever top flight season. 

 

Vardy didn't need to find any untapped potential, he was always class, he just needed to step up and show it. From non league, of all places, yet Edouard can't do the same from a club that plays in Europe? 

 

Then you want to talk about Harry Kane. That's even worse for your argument, he'd played a small handful of loan games at Championship clubs and Tottenham threw him straight in the deep end as an untested 21 hear old to start alone up front. We all laughed, thinking he was crap because he played two games on loan here out of position. 

 

He took to Premier League football instantly like a duck to water and went on an absolute goal scoring rampage straight off the bat. 21 goals in 34 league games in his first full season. We all kept calling it a purple patch, waiting for his bubble to burst and now however many years later we look pretty dumb. 

 

As for Danny Ings, Danny Ings did so well in his first Premier League season, playing for a terrible Burnley side (11 league goals at about one in three) that he got his move to Liverpool. That's off the back of 21 league goals in the Championship aged, what, 21? Injuries then go on to destroy the best part of five years of his career but lo and behold he goes back to scoring once he finally gets healthy. 

 

Now look, I'm not saying players don't improve. You do something all day every day for living, you're going to get better at it to a point. Maturity and experience play a huge part (especially in defenders), you can see that in the way that Vards is changing his game as he slows. 

 

But this is a slow, growing process throughout a career, not some rapid transformation that turns Demarai Gray in to Ronaldo because he can do a few step overs, which is exactly what this forum banged on about for years. I've no doubt Iheanacho will improve throughout his career but it's not giving up on some potential world class forward if you sell a 23, 24 year old forward who has never scored league double figures in his entire life (at any level) and who has 46 goals in 162 appearances, all competitions, in his career. 

 

 

Did you watch Kane at Leicester? Did you think he was destined to be a top European striker?

 

look at where Vards and Mahrez were at 24? I don’t think you can stretch the argument to say they didn’t improve dramatically well into their 20’s? If you go argue that - you are wrong.

 

Anyway this debate is irrelevant. Kel has done enough to show he is a valuable asset, so we should keep him in my opinion. It’s up to you if you think we shouldn’t and we should rely on the transfer market. I think we see the game differently.
 

 

 

 

 

[honeybradger]

2 hours ago, Finnegan said:

Vardy, Ings and Kane are pretty solid examples of players that didn't magically develop, they were always good. 

 

In fact, Vards really backs up the point on Edouard. Vards was banging them in at lower league, racing off the shoulder of the last man and scoring across the keeper. Then he signed for a Championship club and after a short crisis of confidence adjusting, went straight on racing off the shoulder of the last man and scoring across the keeper. That wasn't Vards magically growing at a player, it was just him adjusting to a step up then carrying straight on doing what he does.

 

Then he was promoted to the Premier League where, you guessed it, in one of his first Premier League games, against Manchester United, he absolutely tore them apart racing off the shoulder of the last man and, aw, we all know the rest. The following season, against the same club, he broke the Premier League record got consecutive goals and fired a team to the title in only his second ever top flight season. 

 

Vardy didn't need to find any untapped potential, he was always class, he just needed to step up and show it. From non league, of all places, yet Edouard can't do the same from a club that plays in Europe? 

 

Then you want to talk about Harry Kane. That's even worse for your argument, he'd played a small handful of loan games at Championship clubs and Tottenham threw him straight in the deep end as an untested 21 hear old to start alone up front. We all laughed, thinking he was crap because he played two games on loan here out of position. 

 

He took to Premier League football instantly like a duck to water and went on an absolute goal scoring rampage straight off the bat. 21 goals in 34 league games in his first full season. We all kept calling it a purple patch, waiting for his bubble to burst and now however many years later we look pretty dumb. 

 

As for Danny Ings, Danny Ings did so well in his first Premier League season, playing for a terrible Burnley side (11 league goals at about one in three) that he got his move to Liverpool. That's off the back of 21 league goals in the Championship aged, what, 21? Injuries then go on to destroy the best part of five years of his career but lo and behold he goes back to scoring once he finally gets healthy. 

 

Now look, I'm not saying players don't improve. You do something all day every day for living, you're going to get better at it to a point. Maturity and experience play a huge part (especially in defenders), you can see that in the way that Vards is changing his game as he slows. 

 

But this is a slow, growing process throughout a career, not some rapid transformation that turns Demarai Gray in to Ronaldo because he can do a few step overs, which is exactly what this forum banged on about for years. I've no doubt Iheanacho will improve throughout his career but it's not giving up on some potential world class forward if you sell a 23, 24 year old forward who has never scored league double figures in his entire life (at any level) and who has 46 goals in 162 appearances, all competitions, in his career. 

 

 

How about a striker who scored 8 goals in 700 minutes in his first season. Who's averaging a g+a every 115 minutes over 4000 minutes, 1000 of that was in a dire 18/19 puel side. The signs are there that if iheanacho has service, he scores goals and he creates them, it's that simple really. Yes he may stumble over the ball sometimes/look like he's lacking confidence, it's not like vardy doesnt go through periods like this, he banged in 24 then went on a massive dry run next season, scored 17 in 18 then 6 in the next 20 this seasom. Strikers are inconsistent but nacho is already a proven goalscorer at this level despite what people on here say, edouard is a gamble.

[Guest SO1]

3 hours ago, Kevin Russell said:

I said we need a 9 as well as Nacho. I said Edouard is a good player. I didn’t compare Edouard to Slimani at all...,I said there is always a degree of risk in transferring players from leagues where the standard is not as high as in the English top flight. Actually, I said there is risk in the transfer market in general, which is very well documented.

To be honest, I’m not sure this post responds at all to my previous post at all.

 

Some players do transform with age by the way - see Vardy, Ings, Kane. Some don’t transition as well into their mid 20s from promising starts and fail to fulfil their potential. Th

 
I don’t see why Rogers should let go of Nacho who is playing v well and seems to have a great attitude. Nothing in your post above makes much sense to me; and certainly doesn’t convince me that getting rid of Nacho is a good idea. Personally given the choice I would rather sell Perez.

Iheanacho doesn't fit the "system" or preferred structure. Perez does. To be honest I'm not sure Edouard does either.

[Dahnsouff]

2 minutes ago, SO1 said:

Iheanacho doesn't fit the "system" or preferred structure. Perez does. To be honest I'm not sure Edouard does either.

I think this is correct. I like the idea of Edouard, but I am not convinced he is the right type of forward (obviously only matters if management do)

[Kevin Russell]

1 minute ago, SO1 said:

Iheanacho doesn't fit the "system" or preferred structure. Perez does. To be honest I'm not sure Edouard does either.

That makes sense to a certain extent, but I think any system should be flexible enough to accommodate good players. I can see why BR wouldn’t want to play with a big target man, but good attacking players should be able to be integrated. I actually think we played some really good stuff with Kel in the side at times.

 

i like Ayoze’s endeavour, but I think his overall contribution last season was pretty average. Definitely a good player to keep because of his versatility.

[Muzzy_Larsson]

17 minutes ago, SO1 said:

Iheanacho doesn't fit the "system" or preferred structure. Perez does. To be honest I'm not sure Edouard does either.

I would strongly disagree with the latter.

[Finnegan]

54 minutes ago, Kevin Russell said:

Did you watch Kane at Leicester? Did you think he was destined to be a top European striker?

 

No of course not but, what, you think he became world class in a year because he somehow levelled up? 

 

No, he was always that player but he needed to be given the opportunity to show it playing up top for a Tottenham side that fully utilised him instead of being chucked on the wing for an inconsistent second tier side. 

 

That's what changed for all of those players, context. None of them evolved to some higher level, they all might have improved a little but they were all quality. Some of the performances Riyad put in in the second tier were exactly reminiscent of what he went on to do in the title win, the goal everyone remembers against Blackpool for example was peak Mahrez. Age made him more consistent but that talent was always there. 

 

That's exactly Edouard's situation. He's got bags of quality it's just not being taken seriously because he's demonstrating it in a division nobody rates. 

Edited 4 August 2020 by Finnegan

[Happy Fox]

If Edouard has any ambition to play for the French National Team he needs to play in a better league. I hope we get him, because he is a goal scorer he’s proved that consistently for the past couple of seasons.

[Guest SO1]

4 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

I think this is correct. I like the idea of Edouard, but I am not convinced he is the right type of forward (obviously only matters if management do)

Watching Trincao on YouTube with his quality on the ball and ability to use both feet makes me wonder if we're going to transition to finding attackers who are more versatile(Perez). Like Liverpool. Mane, Salah, and Fermino have preferred positions but can play anywhere across the front three. We continually assign attackers a spot on the field and I'm not sure if that's the right way to go about identifying targets. There's a certain efficiency for me about buying players with a wider skill set. I love Edouard but am not sure I could see him as a striker with the ability to play as a winger.  @Muzzy_Larsson you watch him more than I

[Finnegan]

2 minutes ago, SO1 said:

Watching Trincao on YouTube with his quality on the ball and ability to use both feet makes me wonder if we're going to transition to finding attackers who are more versatile(Perez). Like Liverpool. Mane, Salah, and Fermino have preferred positions but can play anywhere across the front three. We continually assign attackers a spot on the field and I'm not sure if that's the right way to go about identifying targets. There's a certain efficiency for me about buying players with a wider skill set. I love Edouard but am not sure I could see him as a striker with the ability to play as a winger.  @Muzzy_Larsson you watch him more than I

 

If we sign Edouard it's 100% to play as a 9.

 

Barnes, Edouard, New Winger wouldn't surprise me as our first choice front three by the end of next season. That is if our interest is genuine. 

[Kevin Russell]

23 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

No of course not but, what, you think he became world class in a year because he somehow levelled up? 

 

No, he was always that player but he needed to be given the opportunity to show it playing up top for a Tottenham side that fully utilised him instead of being chucked on the wing for an inconsistent second tier side. 

 

That's what changed for all of those players, context. None of them evolved to some higher level, they all might have improved a little but they were all quality. Some of the performances Riyad put in in the second tier were exactly reminiscent of what he went on to do in the title win, the goal everyone remembers against Blackpool for example was peak Mahrez. Age made him more consistent but that talent was always there. 

 

That's exactly Edouard's situation. He's got bags of quality it's just not being taken seriously because he's demonstrating it in a division nobody rates. 

Mate - you’ve lost me. Let’s agree to disagree.

[Guest SO1]

25 minutes ago, Kevin Russell said:

That makes sense to a certain extent, but I think any system should be flexible enough to accommodate good players. I can see why BR wouldn’t want to play with a big target man, but good attacking players should be able to be integrated. I actually think we played some really good stuff with Kel in the side at times.

 

i like Ayoze’s endeavour, but I think his overall contribution last season was pretty average. Definitely a good player to keep because of his versatility.

I don't think any of us really knows where our attack is transitioning to. Feel that life without Vardy started to take shape with the purchase of Perez. Could be wrong. To be continued. Maybe after Rodgers leaves or gets the boot will we see the final idea take shape. Like Klopp. Some plans take years not months.

[honeybradger]

7 minutes ago, SO1 said:

I don't think any of us really knows where our attack is transitioning to. Feel that life without Vardy started to take shape with the purchase of Perez. Could be wrong. To be continued. Maybe after Rodgers leaves or gets the boot will we see the final idea take shape. Like Klopp. Some plans take years not months.

I cant imagine perez would be a starter next year to be honest when most of the players we're linked to are RWs.

[Guest SO1]

13 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

If we sign Edouard it's 100% to play as a 9.

 

Barnes, Edouard, New Winger wouldn't surprise me as our first choice front three by the end of next season. That is if our interest is genuine. 

Agree. For me that's a commitment to a specific structure. I haven't seen Edouard play since Rodgers left so I'm curious to hear what muzzy has to say. Of course he could be Peter Lawwells Cousin and works for the club.

[Bert]

1 hour ago, Kevin Russell said:

Did you watch Kane at Leicester? Did you think he was destined to be a top European striker?

 

look at where Vards and Mahrez were at 24? I don’t think you can stretch the argument to say they didn’t improve dramatically well into their 20’s? If you go argue that - you are wrong.

 

Anyway this debate is irrelevant. Kel has done enough to show he is a valuable asset, so we should keep him in my opinion. It’s up to you if you think we shouldn’t and we should rely on the transfer market. I think we see the game differently.
 

 

 

 

 

Kane scored two goals for us. Kane played as a central striker twice for us. The rest were on the wing. Funnily enough, both goals came when playing as a striker.