Dwight McNeil

[Finnegan]

18 hours ago, jeffschlupp said:

£20m last summer bought you Adam Webster, Neal Maupay and Tyrone Mings, all players who had either never played or achieved anything above the Championship.

 

It certainly won't buy you a star young player from a financially stable Premier League club these days.

 

Correct but this is why I'd prefer to just not buy from England at all unless completely necessary or buying from lower leagues. 

 

Pereira and Cags cost about 18 each, Wilf a bit less than that, Kante was about 8 iirc? 

 

Elsewhere, Haaland went to Dortmund for about 20, Fekir to Betis for like 15, Celtic took 20 for Dembele, Bentancur cost Juve about 7, Demiral about 15.

 

If you scout properly there's deals out there, sure you've got to risk them adapting to the Premier League but that's why we've got a professional recruitment team that's supposed to be highly skilled in their field. You do your research and mitigate the risk. Besides, Mcneil is a risk anyway, he's a baby that's never played anything other than Dycheball. 

 

We're much better finding our own Dwight Mcneil than trying to play at being Manchester United bullying little clubs in our own league for theirs. We know how stubborn we are with premier league money behind us, why would we expect any different from Burnley? 

 

You end up hoping that the player involved is an unprofessional enough mercenary to kick off and force a move but it's a catch twenty two because when he does you're thinking, ummm, do we want that kind of guy here? 

 

I find the Mcneil transfer underwhelming for the same reason I railed against all the Deeney rumours on here for years, its not that the player is entirely bad or couldn't do a job here it's just that there's surely better business shopping outside this league - the wealthiest league in the history of the sport. 

 

Edited 17 August 2020 by Finnegan

[dbtcity]

42 minutes ago, Silebyfox_89 said:

40m is too much IMO, bear in mind Torres signed for Man city for 20Mish? might as well fork out the extra 5M and sign Trincao. If were looking to spend 40M on a winger we would find better value abroad and higher quality.

I have a feeling If he was called Dwight McNeilinho from Europe you’d be saying to get him in for 40m  

Edited 17 August 2020 by dbtcity

[Sly]

3 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Correct but this is why I'd prefer to just not buy from England at all unless completely necessary or buying from lower leagues. 

 

Pereira and Cags cost about 18 each, Wilf a bit less than that, Kante was about 8 iirc? 

 

Elsewhere, Haaland went to Dortmund for about 20, Fekir to Betis for like 15, Celtic took 20 for Dembele, Bentancur cost Juve about 7, Demiral about 15.

 

If you scout properly there's deals out there, sure you've got to risk them adapting to the Premier League but that's why we've got a professional recruitment team that's supposed to be highly skilled in their field. You do your research and mitigate the risk. Besides, Mcneil is a risk anyway, he's a baby that's never played anything other than Dycheball. 

 

We're much better finding our own Dwight Mcneil than trying to play at being Manchester United bullying little clubs in our own league for theirs. We know how stubborn we are with premier league money behind us, why would we expect any different from Burnley? 

 

You end up hoping that the player involved is an unprofessional enough mercenary to kick off and force a move but it's a catch twenty two because when he does you're thinking, ummm, do we want that kind of guy here? 

 

I find the Mcneil transfer underwhelming for the same reason I railed against all the Deeney rumours on here for years, its not that the player is entirely bad or couldn't do a job here it's just that there's surely better business shopping outside this league - the wealthiest league in the history of the sport. 

 

Sums up pretty much I how feel. 
 

He’d add something, not sure if it’s that significant an upgrade either. Not dissimilar to Perez last season in all honesty. 

[Sly]

2 minutes ago, dbtcity said:

If he was called Dwight McNeilinho from Europe you’d be saying to get him in for 40m 🤷🏼‍♂️

Depends on his stats / track! 

[Ricey]

51 minutes ago, Silebyfox_89 said:

40m is too much IMO, bear in mind Torres signed for Man city for 20Mish? might as well fork out the extra 5M and sign Trincao. If were looking to spend 40M on a winger we would find better value abroad and higher quality.

We can't compare to Torres, that is a suspiciously cheap deal.

 

McNeil is a homegrown player therefore he'll be worth more because of squad registration rules. More so after January when all new foreign signings may need work permits and there will no doubt be a limit on foreign players in each squad.

[Finnegan]

31 minutes ago, Ricey said:

We can't compare to Torres, that is a suspiciously cheap deal.

 

McNeil is a homegrown player therefore he'll be worth more because of squad registration rules. More so after January when all new foreign signings may need work permits and there will no doubt be a limit on foreign players in each squad.

 

Valencia are apparently desperately asset stripping and Torres was refusing to sign a new contract because he doesn't like Parejo and, by all accounts, he sounds like a bit of a diva. He was demanding to be made captain and to meet face to face for negotiations with the owner. That's his own words by the way not a rumour. 

 

It wasn't suspiciously cheap it was just cheap. Valencia wanted (needed maybe) to sell more than Man City wanted to buy. 

 

It's exactly the sort of research and scouting I'm talking about. It's not just about finding the right player, it's about finding the right situation to do business. Tielemans on loan was a really smart piece of business by us, we exploited a situation that brought a player here that wouldn't normally have been on our radar. 

 

Mcneil is a situation that suits Burnley to the ground. Long term contract, kid seems to have his head screwed on, Burnley in no desperate need of money at all. 

[The People's Hero]

It’s all agent talk. He’s never worth 40mn. Clearly just wants a move or a new contract. We do our business very quietly and I doubt we’d be happy with the amount of noise around this which must all be coming from the players’ representatives. 
 

just my 2p. 

[sacreblueits442]

16 hours ago, Wortho said:

He might not be a bad player but I don’t understand spending nearly all of our budget on one player. To me you can’t play McNeil and Barnes in the same team, unless DM is playing left back.

..didn't quite understand this post and was thinking who is DM!!!

 There is no reason why they can not be in the same team, should we elect to play McNeil on the right.

[Muzzy_Larsson]

2 hours ago, Silebyfox_89 said:

40m is too much IMO, bear in mind Torres signed for Man city for 20Mish? might as well fork out the extra 5M and sign Trincao. If were looking to spend 40M on a winger we would find better value abroad and higher quality.

I get the general point but does anyone know if Trincao is any better than McNeil? I wouldn't pin hopes on him being amazing just because Barcelona signed him going by their record in the transfer market in recent years. I've only saw little bits of him and he looks technically very good as most Portuguese players do but he does look like he'd struggle or at least take a fair time to adapt to the physicality of the premier league. £45m for him would be madness imo considering Barcelona valued and paid what £25m for him a few months ago and he's not kicked a ball for them yet. What justifiable reason would there be to suggest he is a matter of months later worth circa £20m more? FWIW I don't think McNeil is worth £40m either.

 

If you look at my previous posts I'm all for shopping in Europe as opposed to the inflated EPL market but you also have to do your due dilligence and I think £40m+ for Trincao would be a massive gamble. Whether it's till on the cards I don't know but a loan with a locked in option to buy for a specific price is the way to go with him imo.

Edited 17 August 2020 by Muzzy_Larsson

[Dahnsouff]

15 minutes ago, Muzzy_Larsson said:

I get the general point but does anyone know if Trincao is any better than McNeil? I wouldn't pin hopes on him being amazing just because Barcelona signed him going by their record in the transfer market in recent years. I've only saw little bits of him and he looks technically very good as most Portuguese players do but he does look like he'd struggle or at least take a fair time to adapt to the physicality of the premier league. £45m for him would be madness imo considering Barcelona valued and paid what £25m for him a few months ago and he's not kicked a ball for them yet. What justifiable reason would there be to suggest he is a matter of months later worth circa £20m more?

Bingo. Bit of an assumption that Trincao would be good from the get go, whereas McNeil would be more productive you would imagine.

Footedness (oooh, new word) and sidedness (eeek) of course plays into the conversation.

[dooflip]

One of the reasons we have to buy some players from England is because for Europe we need 8 homegrown players. Currently we don’t have a ton. And those like albrighton, Wes, kasper, Evans and vardy haven’t got long left of their careers or near our first team. So whilst yes it’s bad value, it is also a necessary evil, especially when planning for the future. If we get to a point where the older players retire and we are short on our quota we are more likely to get fleeced even more for homegrown players as clubs will know we are desperate to plug the gaps.

Edited 17 August 2020 by dooflip

[AKCJ]

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

 

Correct but this is why I'd prefer to just not buy from England at all unless completely necessary or buying from lower leagues. 

 

Pereira and Cags cost about 18 each, Wilf a bit less than that, Kante was about 8 iirc? 

 

Elsewhere, Haaland went to Dortmund for about 20, Fekir to Betis for like 15, Celtic took 20 for Dembele, Bentancur cost Juve about 7, Demiral about 15.

 

If you scout properly there's deals out there, sure you've got to risk them adapting to the Premier League but that's why we've got a professional recruitment team that's supposed to be highly skilled in their field. You do your research and mitigate the risk. Besides, Mcneil is a risk anyway, he's a baby that's never played anything other than Dycheball. 

 

We're much better finding our own Dwight Mcneil than trying to play at being Manchester United bullying little clubs in our own league for theirs. We know how stubborn we are with premier league money behind us, why would we expect any different from Burnley? 

 

You end up hoping that the player involved is an unprofessional enough mercenary to kick off and force a move but it's a catch twenty two because when he does you're thinking, ummm, do we want that kind of guy here? 

 

I find the Mcneil transfer underwhelming for the same reason I railed against all the Deeney rumours on here for years, its not that the player is entirely bad or couldn't do a job here it's just that there's surely better business shopping outside this league - the wealthiest league in the history of the sport. 

 

I appreciate the point but you surely see some value in signing young Englishmen that are familiar with the league, won't have trouble settling in, speak the language and have almost guaranteed resale value?

 

Those you've mentioned all have fairly clear drawbacks/potential hindrances which is why their prices were low.

 

All very good saying "just sign the unproven talent from abroad" but for every Fekir you get a Ghezzal.

 

I'm not suggesting that we never go for those players, but I think it's wise to buy proven talent too.

 

 

I've already said it in this thread. If we sign McNeil for 32 then we could sell him tomorrow for 40. It's a very good price.

[HighPeakFox]

One of the great things about FT is that occasionally a thread pops up and a debate ensues where every post is worth reading, and people show the very best of themselves. It is nice being surprised, and wanting to sit down with a bunch of you for a pint and a natter.

[Wortho]

2 hours ago, sacreblueits442 said:

..didn't quite understand this post and was thinking who is DM!!!

 There is no reason why they can not be in the same team, should we elect to play McNeil on the right.

I'm not sure that McNeil can play on the right. The point I was making was that I don't think we should be spending all our budget on him. 

[murphy]

I am underwhelmed by this link but it doesn't seem like it is going away.  Another over-priced mid-table PL player, much like Perez.  He lacks pace and his numbers are mediocre. 

 

We should be aiming higher and I don't want someone to come in and stifle Barnes development.  I think Barnes is the better player anyway.

[whoareyaaa]

8 hours ago, Finnegan said:

 

Correct but this is why I'd prefer to just not buy from England at all unless completely necessary or buying from lower leagues. 

 

Pereira and Cags cost about 18 each, Wilf a bit less than that, Kante was about 8 iirc? 

 

Elsewhere, Haaland went to Dortmund for about 20, Fekir to Betis for like 15, Celtic took 20 for Dembele, Bentancur cost Juve about 7, Demiral about 15.

 

If you scout properly there's deals out there, sure you've got to risk them adapting to the Premier League but that's why we've got a professional recruitment team that's supposed to be highly skilled in their field. You do your research and mitigate the risk. Besides, Mcneil is a risk anyway, he's a baby that's never played anything other than Dycheball. 

 

We're much better finding our own Dwight Mcneil than trying to play at being Manchester United bullying little clubs in our own league for theirs. We know how stubborn we are with premier league money behind us, why would we expect any different from Burnley? 

 

You end up hoping that the player involved is an unprofessional enough mercenary to kick off and force a move but it's a catch twenty two because when he does you're thinking, ummm, do we want that kind of guy here? 

 

I find the Mcneil transfer underwhelming for the same reason I railed against all the Deeney rumours on here for years, its not that the player is entirely bad or couldn't do a job here it's just that there's surely better business shopping outside this league - the wealthiest league in the history of the sport. 

 

That turned out well we could have Deeney and ended up with Slimani for probably less money

[Silebyfox_89]

10 hours ago, moore_94 said:

To be fair that is a completely different situation

 

Torres had 1 year left on his deal, and Valencia were/are having a fire sale

 

McNeil has 3(+1) years left on his deal and also with him you get the English Tax, also buying from a fellow Premier League team bumps the price up as well

Fair point regarding the contract situations, just don't see the value of spending £40 million on a LW player where we have Barnes. Think we should walk away at that value.

[Silebyfox_89]

9 hours ago, Muzzy_Larsson said:

I get the general point but does anyone know if Trincao is any better than McNeil? I wouldn't pin hopes on him being amazing just because Barcelona signed him going by their record in the transfer market in recent years. I've only saw little bits of him and he looks technically very good as most Portuguese players do but he does look like he'd struggle or at least take a fair time to adapt to the physicality of the premier league. £45m for him would be madness imo considering Barcelona valued and paid what £25m for him a few months ago and he's not kicked a ball for them yet. What justifiable reason would there be to suggest he is a matter of months later worth circa £20m more? FWIW I don't think McNeil is worth £40m either.

 

If you look at my previous posts I'm all for shopping in Europe as opposed to the inflated EPL market but you also have to do your due dilligence and I think £40m+ for Trincao would be a massive gamble. Whether it's till on the cards I don't know but a loan with a locked in option to buy for a specific price is the way to go with him imo.

I think my point was more aimed in trying to find market value for a player and not reaching for what we don't necessarily need. I'n the current climate think europe will be the place to go to obtain proven talent (with Europa league experience), there is value there like Evans for 4M  it's just trying to find it.

[UHDrive]

2 hours ago, murphy said:

I am underwhelmed by this link but it doesn't seem like it is going away.  Another over-priced mid-table PL player, much like Perez.  He lacks pace and his numbers are mediocre. 

 

We should be aiming higher and I don't want someone to come in and stifle Barnes development.  I think Barnes is the better player anyway.

Perez might lack pace but still has bags of skill on the ball above "Another over-priced mid-table"

[Muzzy_Larsson]

3 hours ago, murphy said:

I am underwhelmed by this link but it doesn't seem like it is going away.  Another over-priced mid-table PL player, much like Perez.  He lacks pace and his numbers are mediocre. 

 

We should be aiming higher and I don't want someone to come in and stifle Barnes development.  I think Barnes is the better player anyway.

Very much agree with this. If Barnes at his age turned in those numbers at any other EPL club last season and Leicester signed him this summer everyone would be delighted.

[Md9]

Problem buying from the Prem now no one really needs the money tht bad you can buy cheap from them. 40 mil for Burnley will prob last 3 seasons worth of transfers. We can’t expect to sell our players for 60-80 mil and then other teams not want to do the same to us. 

[murphy]

2 hours ago, UHDrive said:

Perez might lack pace but still has bags of skill on the ball above "Another over-priced mid-table"

I was talking about McNeill.

 

I do think Perez is ordinary and over-priced though.

[UHDrive]

58 minutes ago, Md9 said:

Problem buying from the Prem now no one really needs the money tht bad you can buy cheap from them. 40 mil for Burnley will prob last 3 seasons worth of transfers. We can’t expect to sell our players for 60-80 mil and then other teams not want to do the same to us. 

Except that we generally have better players than them that are associated with higher transfer fees. Its the proportionately that is being magnified.

[UHDrive]

3 minutes ago, murphy said:

I was talking about McNeill.

 

I do think Perez is ordinary and over-priced though.

No, you were talking about Perez. The second comment, particularly "ordinary", ill put down to naivety.

[murphy]

14 minutes ago, UHDrive said:

No, you were talking about Perez. The second comment, particularly "ordinary", ill put down to naivety.

  You're telling me what I was talking about?  I'll put that down to arrogance.

 

I said he (McNeill)  lacks pace and his numbers are mediocre.  I think that is quite obvious if you read it again.  I compared the transfer, if it happens, to Perez as another underwhelming signing of a mid-table PL player.

 

We can agree to disagree whether Perez is ordinary or not, but I respect your opinion, you should do likewise.

 

 

Edited 17 August 2020 by murphy