Club Finances - new charge registered against club (Macquaire Bank Limited)

[TJQuik]

3 hours ago, Babylon said:

If you there there are many people rich enough to buy us that haven’t been even the slightest bit iffy then you are kidding yourself.

 

They’ve treated the club with a lot of respect and that’s what I care about. We are going to be a rich man’s play thing for a long time.

I don't think there is one, it's just a sad fact of life that this is how football works. Apologies if you thought I was having a go at you.

[volpeazzurro]

8 hours ago, STUHILL said:

Why would he wait until 3 weeks into the window if this is true? We haven't signed anyone! 

 

Edit: Should have gone to transfertalk first as looks like Kristiansen is close! 

Because sellers probably have interest in their players from more than one club if they are any good and are willing to sell. Wouldn't you wait as long as possible to get the best price?

 

In our position we're hardly going to pay over the top just to say we've made a signing to appease a few fans who are way down on the list of priorities. Most deals, as it always is, will go down to the wire or not at all. If the price is wrong for the goods it's like anything else, don't buy. It's a business. 

 

Arguably we need a new manager far more than players!

Edited 19 January 2023 by volpeazzurro

[An Away Move]

31 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

If the new loan is secured against 2024/25 Premier League income as Rob Tanner claims, I can only assume we’re going to be very busy for the remainder of tris transfer window. 
 

 

This is madness. The owners are gambling. We better hope we stay up or these potential assets we’re planning for are going to turn into massive liabilities and potential bankruptcy. We are a debt bubble near a flame. 

Edited 19 January 2023 by An Away Move

[Matt]

Use the money to **** Rodgers off. Ffs.

[dannythefox]

So we’ve pulled in more money than the teams below us they’ve spent a lot more than us. How does it exactly work 🤷🏻‍♂️

[gerblod]

On 12/01/2021 at 20:09, Chocolate Teapot said:

I personally cannot see the stadium expansion going ahead just yet but could of course be wrong.

 

And the only bit I'd counter this with is we're generally pretty shrewd and not carelessly run. Clubs like West Ham, Villa and Leeds in the summer were spending for fun and are now tightening things up as they were slightly more optimistic about things returning to normal. 

 

It's all relative in football, we'll be in far better shape than many clubs (our debts were far lower than a lot last time I checked). I do wonder if we see players becoming available now who are cheaper than they would be in the summer or a year's time whether we'd jump at the opportunity. That said it's very hard to get the quality of player we need. Personally I just wonder why it's in January - it could possibly be coincidence but my understanding is these types of loans are usually for major investments (which could change during lockdown of course).

Oh, how times change!

[jammie82uk]

39 minutes ago, An Away Move said:

This is madness. The owners are gambling. We better hope we stay up or these potential assets we’re planning for are going to turn into massive liabilities and potential bankruptcy. We are a debt bubble near a flame. 

i haven’t checked but we can’t be the only club that does this and If you read the actual document it says the loan is secured against premier league payments or relegation payments 
 

 

[Dames]

1 hour ago, ClaphamFox said:

If the new loan is secured against 2024/25 Premier League income as Rob Tanner claims, I can only assume we’re going to be very busy for the remainder of tris transfer window. 
 

 

Essentially our club is being run on Klarna. That is not sustainable. 

 

Where is the money going? Surely we can't be that hard up we have to borrow money 2 years in advance? What will happen in 2 years? 

[AjcW]

51 minutes ago, An Away Move said:

This is madness. The owners are gambling. We better hope we stay up or these potential assets we’re planning for are going to turn into massive liabilities and potential bankruptcy. We are a debt bubble near a flame. 

Most football clubs are...

Edited 19 January 2023 by AjcW

[volpeazzurro]

30 minutes ago, dannythefox said:

So we’ve pulled in more money than the teams below us they’ve spent a lot more than us. How does it exactly work 🤷🏻‍♂️

That does give an uneasy feeling somewhat 😕 

[turlo]

34 minutes ago, dannythefox said:

So we’ve pulled in more money than the teams below us they’ve spent a lot more than us. How does it exactly work 🤷🏻‍♂️

we're blowing it on wages

[An Away Move]

13 minutes ago, AjcW said:

Most football clubs are...

Only a few near the fire of relegation. I expect we’ll drop into the bottom three over the course of the next few games. 

[dannythefox]

11 minutes ago, turlo said:

we're blowing it on wages

Not really the case though, yes the wages bill needs trimming but it’s not that high plus Kaspers is off it now.

[davieG]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64314328

 

Premier League clubs dominate richest in the world - Deloitte Money League study

 

More than half of the world's richest clubs by revenue are from the Premier League, according to analysis by Deloitte.

Eleven Premier League clubs make up the top 20 in their Money League study from the 2021-22 season.

It is the first time in the study's 26 years that more than half of the clubs are from the same league.

Champions Manchester City retained top spot, making 731m euros (£619.1m), ahead of Real Madrid (713.8m euros).

Liverpool rise to third from seventh, while Manchester United, Chelsea, Tottenham and Arsenal also make the top 10, with West Ham, Leicester, Leeds, Everton and Newcastle in the top 20.

The top 20 clubs made 9.2bn euros (£7.82bn), a 13% increase from 2020-21.

That increase is largely down to the return of fans to stadia for the first full season after Covid-19 restrictions, with matchday revenue rising from 111m euros to 1.4bn euros.

Women's sides can add 'significant value' to world's top football clubs
Five of the Premier League's 'big six' - Chelsea, Liverpool, Manchester City, Manchester United and Tottenham Hotspur - reported revenue increases of 15% or more. That saw a total increase of 226m euros.

Commercial revenues rose 8%, from 3.5bn euros to 3.8bn euros (£2.975bn to £3.23bn) but there was an 11% (485m euros/£412.25m) fall in broadcast revenue. Last season's figures were higher than usual because of postponed matches from the 2019-20 season being played.

 

 

Position (last year's position)	Club	2021-22 revenue (£m)	2020-21 revenue (£m)
1 (1)	Manchester City	619.1 (731m euros)	571.1 (644.9m euros)
2 (2)	Real Madrid	604.5 (713.8m euros)	567.3 (640.7m euros)
3 (7)	Liverpool	594.3 (701.7m euros)	487.4 (550.4m euros)
4 (5)	Manchester United	583.2 (688.6m euros)	494.1 (558m euros)
5 (6)	Paris St-Germain	554 (654.2m euros)	492.5 (556.2m euros)
6 (3)	Bayern Munich	553.5 (653.6m euros)	541.4 (611.4m euros)
7 (4)	Barcelona	540.5 (638.2m euros)	515.4 (582.1m euros)
8 (8)	Chelsea	481.3 (568.3m euros)	436.6 (493.1m euros)
9 (10)	Tottenham Hotspur	442.8 (523m euros)	359.7 (406.2m euros)
10 (11)	Arsenal	367.1 (433.5m euros)	324.5 (366.5m euros)
11 (9)	Juventus	339.3 (400.6m euros)	383.5 (433.1m euros)
12 (13)	Atletico Madrid	333.6 (393.9m euros)	294.7 (332.8m euros)
13 (12)	Borussia Dortmund	302.2 (356.9m euros)	298.9 (337.6m euros)
14 (14)	Inter Milan	261.2 (308.4m euros)	293 (330.9m euros)
15 (16)	West Ham United	255.1 (301.2m euros)	196.1 (221.5m euros)
16 (19)	AC Milan	224.4 (264.9m euros)	191.5 (216.3m euros)
17 (15)	Leicester City	213.6 (252.2m euros)	226.2 (255.5m euros)
18 (n/a)	Leeds United	189.2 (223.4m euros)	168.6 (190.4m euros)
19 (18)	Everton	181 (213.7m euros)	193.1 (218.1m euros)
20 (n/a)	Newcastle United	179.8 (212.3m euros)	150.6 (170.1m euros)

[OntarioFox]

On 06/09/2021 at 18:50, OntarioFox said:

I trust they're doing things in the right way, it's not unreasonable to say that these investments are based on an expectation that we're going to remain competitive in the top half of the Prem though? If success dries up on the pitch and we do find ourselves relegated in the next decade these obligations would destroy us.

 

I admire our club's ambition for real, and I trust the owners. It's just hard to shake the grounded mindset when it comes to club finances after those doldrum years, League One and of course the ITV Digital fiasco.

 

As I said, it's fine to make these sorts of business decisions, but football isn't like an average business. You have to back it up on the field. It's corporate gambling, basically, and at the moment we're definitely up during our night at the tables.

 

edit - doesn't mean i'm against the club making these investments fwiw, I know money doesn't grow on trees, it's more just an acknowledgement that there's a significant amount of risk involved with anything like this in a results business like footy. 

Yikes, someone liked this comment and reading it back right now, it's ominous.

We've done literally EVERYTHING wrong over the past two years.

[Matt_Lcfc]

6 hours ago, Babylon said:

We all know why they got the monopoly, back handers and relationships. 
 

I think there is confusion here about what you are saying, it sounded like you were suggesting there was some other dodgy stream of income and that the “obscure” duty free shops could never generate that money. 

No, not really. I standby what I said yesterday, the income for the duty free shops does appear ‘obscure.’ 
 

I would imagine (similar to other billionaires) that this is a coverup for what they are really doing. I would guess that they have engaged with pretty shady deals through time, and my main concern is that the money seems to have dried up since the death of Vichai.

 

Tbh, I think that he had the relevant connections that Top doesn’t have. Ultimately, there is a reason why we are suddenly so cash-strapped and I don’t think that’s it’s to do with duty-free shops.

Edited 19 January 2023 by Matt_Lcfc

[Mickyblueeyes]

Please tell me how people are so convince by what this document means WITHOUT anyone having read the facility agreement - that shouldn't be available on companies house so how do you know what the actual facility is ? 

 

 

 

 

[Gamble92]

So 17th best revenue in world football. £226m a year, £86m on wages, £3m net spend. Shit loads of loans. £226m debt to King Power.

[Babylon]

1 hour ago, Matt_Lcfc said:

No, not really. I standby what I said yesterday, the income for the duty free shops does appear ‘obscure.’ 
 

I would imagine (similar to other billionaires) that this is a coverup for what they are really doing. I would guess that they have engaged with pretty shady deals through time, and my main concern is that the money seems to have dried up since the death of Vichai.

 

Tbh, I think that he had the relevant connections that Top doesn’t have. Ultimately, there is a reason why we are suddenly so cash-strapped and I don’t think that’s it’s to do with duty-free shops.

They've put more money in recently than Vichai ever did in the premier league. So no, you're right about one thing, it's nothing to do with duty free shops. 

 

I also don't think you understand how big their duty free business is and the sizes of shopping floor we're talking about. They control every square inch, whether it's Chanel or Rolex or anything else getting sold, they take their cut. 

[Tommy G]

48 minutes ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

Please tell me how people are so convince by what this document means WITHOUT anyone having read the facility agreement - that shouldn't be available on companies house so how do you know what the actual facility is ? 

 

 

 

 

Because people run with headlines and are suddenly financial experts 

[RonnieTodger]

Agents and player wages have absolutely destroyed football

[turlo]

2 hours ago, dannythefox said:

Not really the case though, yes the wages bill needs trimming but it’s not that high plus Kaspers is off it now.

It's was significantly higher than the likes of West Ham, Villa, Leeds & Brighton for 2021, although some of that could be due to FA bonuses and qualifying for Europe. Kasper leaving would've reduced it by approx 8m but during that time we've handed out improved contracts to Barnes, KDH etc and our revenue has taken a hit by falling out of Europe, lower league position.  

 

 

[Matt_Lcfc]

16 minutes ago, Babylon said:

They've put more money in recently than Vichai ever did in the premier league. So no, you're right about one thing, it's nothing to do with duty free shops. 

 

I also don't think you understand how big their duty free business is and the sizes of shopping floor we're talking about. They control every square inch, whether it's Chanel or Rolex or anything else getting sold, they take their cut. 

Not sure what constitutes as ‘putting more money in recently than Vichai ever did.’ 
 

Do you mean players? As I am not sure that is factually correct if you consider inflation and windows like 16/17 and 17/18. 
 

If you are referencing to infrastructure, then that is a bit of a flawed argument. Look at how we have ‘paid’ for the training ground, it’s been borrowed against these loans (which is what this thread is basically about).

 

 

Edited 19 January 2023 by Matt_Lcfc

[Fox92]

6 minutes ago, RonnieTodger said:

Agents and player wages have absolutely destroyed football

This and that there's just far to much money in the Premier League.

 

Owners gambling with clubs and fans cannot do anything about it.

[Mickyblueeyes]

12 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

Because people run with headlines and are suddenly financial experts 

The Information Age that we are in is fantastic but I always say sharing of information should come with a responsibility of providing context. 
 

I’m all for criticising the board for the way the club has acted in the last 6 months. But strictly as a fan. As a fan I want investment in the playing staff and direction. However, how the mandem sharing an assignment deed and telling me we are about to go bust ?