Club Finances - new charge registered against club (Macquaire Bank Limited)

[Vestan Pance]

4 hours ago, dannythefox said:

So we’ve pulled in more money than the teams below us they’ve spent a lot more than us. How does it exactly work 🤷🏻‍♂️

Doubling the number of staff, a new training ground with all of its maintainance cost, no expense spared parties and family days for players and staff (all free of charge). vastly overpaid players, not trading players efficiently, millions spent on ground redevelopment, a women's team which generates almost no income, a £10m a year manager, belvoir drive, buying players and not using them. It all adds up to a badly run financial black hole.

 

[hejammy]

6 minutes ago, Vestan Pance said:

Doubling the number of staff, a new training ground with all of its maintainance cost, no expense spared parties and family days for players and staff (all free of charge). vastly overpaid players, not trading players efficiently, millions spent on ground redevelopment, a women's team which generates almost no income, a £10m a year manager, belvoir drive, buying players and not using them. It all adds up to a badly run financial black hole.

 

But to be honest baring the first one (new training ground) most other clubs have these issues (some of these issues you've listed are a bit hyperbole, like the parties, womens team etc) but all the other issues all teams are facing. Something is not right, we cannot be the richest club in the premier league away from the London, Manchester and Liverpool clubs and be in the apparent financial problem we have. Something is not quite right and it's not anything you have listed which is the main issue

[Vestan Pance]

Just now, hejammy said:

But to be honest baring the first one (new training ground) most other clubs have these issues (some of these issues you've listed are a bit hyperbole, like the parties, womens team etc) but all the other issues all teams are facing. Something is not right, we cannot be the richest club in the premier league away from the London, Manchester and Liverpool clubs and be in the apparent financial problem we have. Something is not quite right and it's not anything you have listed which is the main issue

When businesses fail it is never one issue, it's usually cultural. The club had a cash influx from a successful period and they've carried on spending without much thought, its that simple. I'm not sure "something is not quite right" is getting to the root of it.

[CosbehFox]

The wage bill will reduce but so will revenue with significant reductions in prize money. 

[RichMC24]

39 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

The wage bill will reduce but so will revenue with significant reductions in prize money. 

Saving a fortune on win/goal bonuses 

[KingsX]

16 hours ago, Babylon said:

The King Power Mahanakhon there, previously the tallest building in Thailand and filled with hotel, restaurant, shops and vast money making opportunities. 
 

 

 "an architectural tour de force modelled closely on the internal structure of King Power's famed football club in the English midlands"

[dannythefox]

2 hours ago, Vestan Pance said:

Doubling the number of staff, a new training ground with all of its maintainance cost, no expense spared parties and family days for players and staff (all free of charge). vastly overpaid players, not trading players efficiently, millions spent on ground redevelopment, a women's team which generates almost no income, a £10m a year manager, belvoir drive, buying players and not using them. It all adds up to a badly run financial black hole.

 

Anything to do with ground developments doesn’t come out the same pot, same as the training facilities.

[Guest David Oldfields Gate]

On 19/01/2023 at 07:21, Ste said:

Not sure why this wasn't working but should be fixed now https://archive.is/XyIK3

Thanks, really good read. 

[Jordan]

 

Trying to figure out what this is all about… did the club just get £194m of new investment? King Power bought the shares? An external investor? Or is this just some sort of accounting trick? 🤷🏻‍♂️ 

[turlo]

1 hour ago, Jordan said:

 

Trying to figure out what this is all about… did the club just get £194m of new investment? King Power bought the shares? An external investor? Or is this just some sort of accounting trick? 🤷🏻‍♂️ 

Looks similar to what the owners did in 2013 to convert the clubs debt into equity/shares to effectively write off the loans they provided the club (article from the bbc below)

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-25493466

[Sly]

We just need to know who has paid £194,000,000 for shares. 
 

Is it King Power, or another investor? Im

assuming it’s King Power. 
 

This pumps more money into the company and wipes out debt. 

[Babylon]

20 minutes ago, Sly said:

We just need to know who has paid £194,000,000 for shares. 
 

Is it King Power, or another investor? Im

assuming it’s King Power. 
 

This pumps more money into the company and wipes out debt. 

As of last year what we owned KP and Top was £180m. So quite possibly coverted all of that debt into equity… which would be quite some statement. 
 

Doubt there would have been investment without a change to the directors etc. 

[Jon the Hat]

6 minutes ago, Babylon said:

As of last year what we owned KP and Top was £180m. So quite possibly coverted all of that debt into equity… which would be quite some statement. 
 

Doubt there would have been investment without a change to the directors etc. 

It is a statement that they believe the value of the club has increased sufficiently for them to be able to recover their investment in future I guess.  

[Babylon]

32 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

It is a statement that they believe the value of the club has increased sufficiently for them to be able to recover their investment in future I guess.  

Which they could have done if it was left as loans on the books also. In fact far more profitable to have left them as interest paying loans if that’s their consideration.

[st albans fox]

If it’s a new investor then it’s difficult to hide that unless there is some legal document in  another jurisdiction which both parties accept over rides English law. I’m sure that not legal but it happens where people/companies don’t want it known that they own part of a company. 

 

with football being subject to rules re common ownership of clubs it would be a daft thing to do as it’s just storing up a massive problem in the future.  If it is a new investor and there are no shenanigans we will find out when the next confirmation statement is made at companies house. 
 

if it’s a straight debt for equity by KP/the family then I suppose it’s a possible tool in arguing ffp issues.  It would be tough to sanction a club for breaching ffp (to a relatively small degree) which had no debt whilst others carry more than half a billion with no comeback.  Alternatively, if you’re looking to borrow money then having no debt is always going to help with interest rates as the repayment risk is hugely lessened. 

Edited 1 February 2023 by st albans fox

[StanSP]

Is this why Top came back to UK recently, to get this sorted? 

[coolhandfox]

According to a lot on here the owner has lost interest.

 

Then puts his hand in his pocket for the best part of 200m.

Edited 1 February 2023 by coolhandfox

[CrazyKopCorner]

If this is £194m Debt turned into Equity that's absolutely staggering and would be an incredible investment from Top 

[Ginger_Filbert]

8 minutes ago, CrazyKopCorner said:

If this is £194m Debt turned into Equity that's absolutely staggering and would be an incredible investment from Top 

People will still call him unfortunately. 

[st albans fox]

Something else missed above is that if you’re looking to sell a business, being debt free is a plus. what usually happens is that the debt is taken of the valuation but there could be circumstances where you’d want the the deal to be done without any debt involved.   This is the least likely scenario but worth a mention.  Just occurred to me that if someone wants to buy into a business, having no debt is an even bigger plus. Now I’m intrigued…..

Edited 1 February 2023 by st albans fox

[drew]

Incredible if Top and his family have wiped off the debt in that manner.

 

Maybe we don’t know as much as we think we do.

[ACF]

Are we now saying we’re essentially debt free, besides the Macquarie loans?

[stu]

20 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Something else missed above is that if you’re looking to sell a business, being debt free is a plus. what usually happens is that the debt is taken of the valuation but there could be circumstances where you’d want the the deal to be done without any debt involved.   This is the least likely scenario but worth a mention.  Just occurred to me that if someone wants to buy into a business, having no debt is an even bigger plus. Now I’m intrigued…..

I was going to ask to those people with more financial knowledge that me, does this mean that the club is more or less likely to be up for sale at some point in the near future?

Edited 1 February 2023 by stu

[TrentFox]

22 minutes ago, Ginger_Filbert said:

People will still call him unfortunately. 

It’s certainly easier to pronounce than Srivaddhanapabha. 

[MattFox]

Fair play tbf 

 

Been critical of them recently but this is a good thing regardless of the ultimate intentions 

Edited 1 February 2023 by MattFox