Arsenal 0 Amazing Foxes 1 post match

[AKCJ]

1 minute ago, filbertway said:

I'm sure if it was the other way round you would have been totally happy with it being disallowed

 

You won't convince me that it shouldn't have been given. I dno how you are involved in play when you're behind a player. Whether or not Auba is there, I dont think he affects Justin's decision making or his actions in the slightest. Just as Xhaka doesn't influence Schmeichel. 

 

 

I suppose this is the issue with rules that can be interpreted. 

 

Were looking at the same thing and have totally different opinions.

I think it's mainly because you don't seem to understand the rules of the game. 

[sacreblueits442]

15 minutes ago, Captain... said:

They showed it on MOTD2 from behind the goal, Kasper has moved away from Xhaka and neither his view or movement is blocked. If Aubamayeng is blocking Justin it is minimal. Enough for VAR to not overrule the linesman, but I doubt it would be enough for VAR to disallow the goal of the link hadn't flagged.

 

I'm not saying it was the wrong decision, I'm just disagreeing with those that say Arteta has nothing to complain about. 

...just looking at the incident from the view of the assistant ref. and the only infringement he could have flagged for would be Xhaka backing in, the call against Aubameyang would have been a brave call and a great spot.

[AKCJ]

2 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

I think it's mainly because you don't seem to understand the rules of the game. 

https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-11---offside#:~:text=A player is in an,and the second-last opponent

 

Quote

Offside offence

A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched* by a team-mate is only penalised on becoming involved in active play by:

• interfering with play by playing or touching a ball passed or touched by a team-mate or
• interfering with an opponent by:
• preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision or
• challenging an opponent for the ball or
• clearly attempting to play a ball which is close when this action impacts on an opponent or
• making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball

 

[onekeithweller]

1 hour ago, filbertway said:

It was never an offside, Xhaka doesn't affect Schmeichel at all, you're clutching at non-existent straws if you think he is. 

God gave us life

So that we all could go 

to FoxesTalk

and clutch at non-existent straws

Hallelujah

 

[urban fox]

We can analyse it all we like and as has been shown by the differing opinions here come to conclusions either way. It was a tight decision, made by the lino in real time. That is the only opinion that counts. The history books will only recount that the game finished 0-1, 3pts to LCFC.

We all know that there will be good and bad decisions made (and that is also debatable depending on which side you are sitting). Personally i think it was the correct one, but can also see the other side of the argument. 

It does add to the debate that the offside rules need to be looked at and simplified. For me, the rule should be clear cut. If a player is in an offside position and active ( ie not running back, on the ground injured, tying their laces etc) then they are offside.

In Sundays game, if the ball had clipped off a leicester player and Xhaka touches it in then would he have been onside?  The arguments would have then been whether or not the touch from a defender was deliberate or not. 

Even with VAR subjective decisions can be contested and debatable so it really is time that the rules were looked at. Lets face it, refs and assistants have a hard enough job, and i wonder if the flag would have been raised in front of an hostile home crowd so i am all for making it simpler.

[urban fox]

7 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

I don't care. Just put it down to the free VAR token we received at the Emirates from last season after the Iheanacho push decision. What goes around comes around. 

By that argument we are still in credit for the Holding handball (which should have been a second yellow to boot) so bring on next seasons game 

[sacreblueits442]

36 minutes ago, filbertway said:

I'm sure if it was the other way round you would have been totally happy with it being disallowed

 

You won't convince me that it shouldn't have been given. I dno how you are involved in play when you're behind a player. Whether or not Auba is there, I dont think he affects Justin's decision making or his actions in the slightest. Just as Xhaka doesn't influence Schmeichel. 

 

 

I suppose this is the issue with rules that can be interpreted. 

 

Were looking at the same thing and have totally different opinions.

...in that scenario, Justin could decide that because players are offside, as he is in effect the last defender, then he does not have to make an effort to get the ball. Technically, Aubameyangs' attempt to ensure the ball goes in when he raises his leg in an attempt to play the ball at the back post makes it offside.

[Captain...]

54 minutes ago, Foxy_Bear said:

But look where Kasper is and look weher Xhaka is. Kasper is too far right to get to the ball BUT he HAD to move to the right in order to see the ball because Xhaka was on his toes so he DID interfere with play indirectly. 

But it was a corner Xhaka was onside when Kasper had to move. He is allowed to stand where he wants when a corner is taken. As it was an inswinging corner he is onside until Lacazette touches it. If Lacazette doesn't touch it and Xhaka heads it he's not offside.

 

Kasper moving around Xhaka is irrelevant he had every right to be standing there at a corner.

[filbertway]

19 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...in that scenario, Justin could decide that because players are offside, as he is in effect the last defender, then he does not have to make an effort to get the ball. Technically, Aubameyangs' attempt to ensure the ball goes in when he raises his leg in an attempt to play the ball at the back post makes it offside.

Sure, he has the reactions of a hummingbird and can process that information and make a decision in the milliseconds he had haha.

[Scotch]

8 minutes ago, Captain... said:

But it was a corner Xhaka was onside when Kasper had to move. He is allowed to stand where he wants when a corner is taken. As it was an inswinging corner he is onside until Lacazette touches it. If Lacazette doesn't touch it and Xhaka heads it he's not offside.

 

Kasper moving around Xhaka is irrelevant he had every right to be standing there at a corner.

I take on board your first point. Fair enough but if players the right to stand where they wanted then players could just block off the runner bu standing in front of them but they are always fouls....

[HighPeakFox]

Can we keep it to one debate about this decision? It seems to be elsewhere too... 

 

Please don't fall out over it - we fall out over proper issues like Puel and club size.

[fuchsntf]

2 hours ago, filbertway said:

It was never an offside, Xhaka doesn't affect Schmeichel at all, you're clutching at non-existent straws if you think he is. 

My straw is..!!  It was Arsenal, so to get the right call after 40+ years Made it the right descision....forget any rights & technicalities in the laws,they didnt seem to

Matter over These last 40 odd years..

So Time to Rock n Arsenroll...  

[Captain...]

33 minutes ago, Foxy_Bear said:

I take on board your first point. Fair enough but if players the right to stand where they wanted then players could just block off the runner bu standing in front of them but they are always fouls....

Yes, but he didn't block the runner.

 

Standing on the keeper at a corner is a pretty standard thing you can argue it's not in the spirit of the game, but it's been allowed to happen for years. If you just stand your ground then it is up to the keeper to find room to come and claim the cross. This what Kasper did to end up in the position he was in.

 

If the inswinging corner was then headed in by Xhaka or even curled into the far corner there would be no arguments or complaints about offside because they took up legal positions for the corner.

 

Likewise if we'd had a man on the front post playing them all onside there would be no complaints about impeding Kasper or Justin. 

 

We didn't, it didn't, as soon as it touched Lacazette they were offside and there was enough influence on the game for the lino to give it which is enough for me. I would be a bit pissed off if I was an Arsenal fan though because the influence was very minimal. It all comes down to a lot of football is a judgement call and until you rewrite every rule to make every situation black or white we will still have controVARsial moments. In those cases where it isn't clear one way or another the benefit of the doubt must be with the on field team.

[Tom12345]

1 hour ago, pmcla26 said:

I don't care. Just put it down to the free VAR token we received at the Emirates from last season after the Iheanacho push decision. What goes around comes around. 

We have not used up that token then. This is clearly offside. Why were the Arsenal players standing on the goal line to begin with?

[yorkie1999]

2 hours ago, AKCJ said:

https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-11---offside#:~:text=A player is in an,and the second-last opponent

 

 

*The first point of contact of the 'play' or 'touch' of the ball should be used

 

Which is the actual kick from the corner

[Tom12345]

22 minutes ago, Captain... said:

Yes, but he didn't block the runner.

 

Standing on the keeper at a corner is a pretty standard thing you can argue it's not in the spirit of the game, but it's been allowed to happen for years. If you just stand your ground then it is up to the keeper to find room to come and claim the cross. This what Kasper did to end up in the position he was in.

 

If the inswinging corner was then headed in by Xhaka or even curled into the far corner there would be no arguments or complaints about offside because they took up legal positions for the corner.

 

Likewise if we'd had a man on the front post playing them all onside there would be no complaints about impeding Kasper or Justin. 

 

We didn't, it didn't, as soon as it touched Lacazette they were offside and there was enough influence on the game for the lino to give it which is enough for me. I would be a bit pissed off if I was an Arsenal fan though because the influence was very minimal. It all comes down to a lot of football is a judgement call and until you rewrite every rule to make every situation black or white we will still have controVARsial moments. In those cases where it isn't clear one way or another the benefit of the doubt must be with the on field team.

Yeah. And what we did is called an offside trap. They should respond by moving up the line with our last defender but they didn’t.

 

Also, if they were not there, Justin could have challenged for the ball but no doubt when he saw a man in front of him he decided in that mini second not to slide in to block it because it could cause injury. That is enough interference.

[st albans fox]

44 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

*The first point of contact of the 'play' or 'touch' of the ball should be used

 

Which is the actual kick from the corner

don't think so …. cant be offside from a corner.  the player cant be offside until the point that the ball is headed - eg - if he had retreated to be onside when laca headed the ball and then stretched his leg out to put the ball in then would be onside. the more i read the law, the more i need to see how JJ was impacted by auba - i cant really see how xhaka jumping out of the path of the ball affected either kasper or JJ

[yorkie1999]

13 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

don't think so …. cant be offside from a corner.  the player cant be offside until the point that the ball is headed - eg - if he had retreated to be onside when laca headed the ball and then stretched his leg out to put the ball in then would be onside. the more i read the law, the more i need to see how JJ was impacted by auba - i cant really see how xhaka jumping out of the path of the ball affected either kasper or JJ

You're right, but seeing as we gained the advantage, who cares.

[fuchsntf]

On 27/10/2020 at 13:09, urban fox said:

We can analyse it all we like and as has been shown by the differing opinions here come to conclusions either way. It was a tight decision, made by the lino in real time. That is the only opinion that counts. The history books will only recount that the game finished 0-1, 3pts to LCFC.

We all know that there will be good and bad decisions made (and that is also debatable depending on which side you are sitting). Personally i think it was the correct one, but can also see the other side of the argument. 

It does add to the debate that the offside rules need to be looked at and simplified. For me, the rule should be clear cut. If a player is in an offside position and active ( ie not running back, on the ground injured, tying their laces etc) then they are offside.

In Sundays game, if the ball had clipped off a leicester player and Xhaka touches it in then would he have been onside?  The arguments would have then been whether or not the touch from a defender was deliberate or not. 

Even with VAR subjective decisions can be contested and debatable so it really is time that the rules were looked at. Lets face it, refs and assistants have a hard enough job, and i wonder if the flag would have been raised in front of an hostile home crowd so i am all for making it simpler.

You know what, over all my years, I dont think there as never been too much wrong with the rules & regulations...

Its been the Lack of translation, really poor Interpretation & understanding in the decision making and quite poor Aftermath discusions...

Follow the rules,find honest consistency,then These nonsense debate wont happen.

 

People interfering and wanting to change this or that...its Not the rule that is the problem, but officials,fans,pundits Not willing to follow them...

 

Its like people trying to Play Maijong or Rummi-club, they Love nothing more then moving all the nr-squares around, so they can lay One down,

Spending yonks to do it, confuse themselves & everyone in the making...Then in the end unable & fail to put anything on the table..

.& I have to get up and re-serve Cocktails because the ice has fking melted the players get bored....

so I have to get the Bloody  Ouija-board out...

Edited 28 October 2020 by fuchsntf

[Babylon]

1 hour ago, st albans fox said:

don't think so …. cant be offside from a corner.  the player cant be offside until the point that the ball is headed - eg - if he had retreated to be onside when laca headed the ball and then stretched his leg out to put the ball in then would be onside. the more i read the law, the more i need to see how JJ was impacted by auba - i cant really see how xhaka jumping out of the path of the ball affected either kasper or JJ

Think of it like a cross where the defender jumps and misses the ball, but the attacker behind him also misses because it's nigh on impossible to read the ball with someone in the flight path. You don't know if they will touch it or where it will go. So that split second of hesitation causes you to miss the ball.

 

Without the two arsenal players there does JJ for instance, have a better chance of reading the flight of the ball in turn giving him a better chance of stopping it. Not would he stop it, just a better chance of stopping it. If the answer is yes, then it's offside. 

[mazarron fox]

3 hours ago, pmcla26 said:

I don't care. Just put it down to the free VAR token we received at the Emirates from last season after the Iheanacho push decision. What goes around comes around. 

Absolutely this go on any clubs website when a decision is in their favour it’s seen as justice when against the opposite but over a couple of seasons it must even out.

[nwl fox]

Well for me, the biggest indicator was the fact that Kasper did not complain about it for 1 second when it went in, he just looked annoyed with himself. One thing you can guarantee with Schmeichel is that if he felt for a minute that he'd been impeded he'd have been yawping at the referee, he's not a shy lad is he!

I think we've got away with one there, but I also feel we're more than due one going in our favour so happy to hold my hands up and say yeah we got one go for us this time, we'll take that for all the dodgy decisions that have gone in your favour in the past Arsenal!!

Time to move on lads....

[The Quick Brown Fox]

5 hours ago, Countryfox said:

Can't believe you are all still yarping on about this ...    to finally put it to bed I have zoomed in on what the VAR bloke saw using my very own cutting edge photographic technology ...   as you can see, a few whisps of the Arsenal players nasal hair are clearly in an 'offside position' and, cus it's sort of fluttering about,  it would easily distract Kasper ....    so ...   point proven ..  no goal ..  move on you lot ! ...   

 

 

Why did I look at that and see a shoddy stick man going number 2 up a wall?

Edited 27 October 2020 by browniefox
Spelling

[Mike Oxlong]

1 hour ago, browniefox said:

Why did I look at that and see a shoddy stick man going number 2 up a wall?

 No idea but your username is starting to make sense now 

[purpleronnie]

I mentioned at the start of the season that without home fans packing the stadiums there's little home advantage anymore, so I'm not surprised that the 2 home defeats we had were to teams we were expected to beat and beating Man City & Arsenal away is proof of this also....well that's the theory I'm sticking to anyway.