We need to talk about Jonny Evans

[MPH]

If there was any doubt as to how important Johnny Evans was to us...

[Vardinio'sCat]

No Johnny, no party.

[melrose]

A three weeks daily concentrated cortezone injection programe is the best treatment

 

I've done a two hour first aid course at work, so I'm medically trained to know what is best!

[teblin]

Clutching at straws, But could this be a case of Jonny and the club want him available for the cup final?

 

Edited 8 May 2021 by teblin

[Facecloth]

6 hours ago, Manwell Pablo said:

You are absolutely deluded if you think our back line defends like that with Johnny Evans in it.

 

Absolutely not understanding football to a slightest degree deluded.

 

Massive miss tonight and if he’s out for the season we aren’t playing CL next season. 

So Southampton didn't get through our back three a couple of times? West Ham weren't getting through us like a hot knife through butter? Palace didn't have numerous chances they ****ed up, including the one Evans himself got the last ditch tackle to prevent Benteke scoring. Newcastle were clinical in front of goal tonight where the others weren't, but three at the back has been conceding chances for weeks, we've just been lucky at times the opposition haven't taken them.

[sdb]

6 hours ago, MPH said:

If there was any doubt as to how important Johnny Evans was to us...

I'd say Forfana and Soyuncu's values dropped by about £20m collectively last night. We all knew Evans was the brains of the 3, but I don't think we realised it was the only one.

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, Facecloth said:

So Southampton didn't get through our back three a couple of times? West Ham weren't getting through us like a hot knife through butter? Palace didn't have numerous chances they ****ed up, including the one Evans himself got the last ditch tackle to prevent Benteke scoring. Newcastle were clinical in front of goal tonight where the others weren't, but three at the back has been conceding chances for weeks, we've just been lucky at times the opposition haven't taken them.

Think that’s a slight reworking, but it’s close enough, but I do feel our mental fragility and naivety was evident with Jonny being omitted just before kick off. The first goal was Cags fault, but you saw his gesture to Marc, saying where was my shout. Something he would have got it Jonny had been on the pitch,

 

It is concerning however, how reliant on him we may just be.

[st albans fox]

10 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

So Southampton didn't get through our back three a couple of times? West Ham weren't getting through us like a hot knife through butter? Palace didn't have numerous chances they ****ed up, including the one Evans himself got the last ditch tackle to prevent Benteke scoring. Newcastle were clinical in front of goal tonight where the others weren't, but three at the back has been conceding chances for weeks, we've just been lucky at times the opposition haven't taken them.

If you want to understand how many chances we’ve been giving up and the quality of those chances then Xg is a decent way of doing that 

 

West Ham.     1.02

West Brom.   0.28

palace.         0.72

soton.           0.95

newcastle.    2.87

 

just breaking into or beyond our back line doesn’t in itself constitute a massive problem .....that’s just football - it happens. How your defence is organised to deal with that is part of the game. 
 

those numbers above show how clinical West Ham were with the chances they created and how bad we were last night at preventing those  openings becoming good scoring opportunities. We missed evans for a number of reasons (unbalancing the team completely being a huge issue for me) 

Edited 8 May 2021 by st albans fox

[Facecloth]

2 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Think that’s a slight reworking, but it’s close enough, but I do feel our mental fragility and naivety was evident with Jonny being omitted just before kick off. The first goal was Cags fault, but you saw his gesture to Marc, saying where was my shout. Something he would have got it Jonny had been on the pitch,

 

It is concerning however, how reliant on him we may just be.

I'm not saying we don't miss any first teasers when they are missing, and no doubt it didn't help with it being a late change, but to suggest we've been solid with him in the back three recently just isn't true.

 

That's not a dig at him. I started this thread back in November when he'd be playing very poorly for months, and he has improved since then, it's a dig at the formation. Evans played in all the games I mentioned, where was the communication when Zaha got through a few times, or West Ham got behind our defence on countless occasions. 

[Facecloth]

10 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

If you want to understand how many chances we’ve been giving up and the quality of those chances then Xg is a decent way of doing that 

 

West Ham.     1.02

West Brom.   0.28

palace.         0.72

soton.           0.95

newcastle.    2.87

 

just breaking into or beyond our back line doesn’t in itself constitute a massive problem .....that’s just football - it happens. How your defence is organised to deal with that is part of the game. 
 

those numbers above show how clinical West Ham were with the chances they created and how bad we were last night at preventing those  openings becoming good scoring opportunities. We missed evans for a number of reasons (unbalancing the team completely being a huge issue for me) 

Another way to look at expected goals is how the opposition took advantage or not of our sloppy defending. Are we preventing them, or are they messing up? There's no clear way of knowing, just from the numbers. What is definitely not great, is constantly have one of the three defenders out of sync, playing people onside. Or stepping up at the wrong moment to allow an acre of space behind them. That's been happening whoever plays in the three. I think all three are good defenders, but I think in a three, even though we've been lucky to not concede a hatful until now, they aren't in sync. I don't see this sloppiness happening in a 4.

[Tom12345]

7 hours ago, Manwell Pablo said:

You are absolutely deluded if you think our back line defends like that with Johnny Evans in it.

 

Absolutely not understanding football to a slightest degree deluded.

 

Massive miss tonight and if he’s out for the season we aren’t playing CL next season. 

Yeah, Soyuncu and Fofana are great tacklers. But when it comes to reading and understanding the game, anticipation and positioning, Evans is heads and shoulders above the other two. This game showed. Soyuncu and Fofana were pretty awful. They left too many holes and were too far up the pitch at times. Worst is that when one is quite high up exposing the other, the other did not read this and go back a bit more to cover - something Evans does very well.

[st albans fox]

24 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

I'm not saying we don't miss any first teasers when they are missing, and no doubt it didn't help with it being a late change, but to suggest we've been solid with him in the back three recently just isn't true.

 

That's not a dig at him. I started this thread back in November when he'd be playing very poorly for months, and he has improved since then, it's a dig at the formation. Evans played in all the games I mentioned, where was the communication when Zaha got through a few times, or West Ham got behind our defence on countless occasions. 

 

15 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

Another way to look at expected goals is how the opposition took advantage or not of our sloppy defending. Are we preventing them, or are they messing up? There's no clear way of knowing, just from the numbers. What is definitely not great, is constantly have one of the three defenders out of sync, playing people onside. Or stepping up at the wrong moment to allow an acre of space behind them. That's been happening whoever plays in the three. I think all three are good defenders, but I think in a three, even though we've been lucky to not concede a hatful until now, they aren't in sync. I don't see this sloppiness happening in a 4.

I’m not sure I watch the same games as you 

 

zaha got clean through once and scored.  

 

they then fooked up a one on one second half. 
 

I agree that we have been woeful at stepping up and back as a unit (and that’s also includes Thomas who found himself last man on that palace break). 

 

West Ham broke clear twice in the first half. One they screwed up and one they scored from. 
 

it was clear in that game that evans was struggling as he couldn’t sprint .....odd we wouldn’t play deeper to allow for that but then the coach seems to occupy a parallel universe sometimes where the game on the iPad is more relevant than the one actually playing out infront of him 

[Ric Flair]

8 hours ago, Facecloth said:

Are you including the last ditch Evans tackle in that too?

Yes

[Facecloth]

18 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

 

I’m not sure I watch the same games as you 

 

zaha got clean through once and scored.  

 

they then fooked up a one on one second half. 
 

I agree that we have been woeful at stepping up and back as a unit (and that’s also includes Thomas who found himself last man on that palace break). 

 

West Ham broke clear twice in the first half. One they screwed up and one they scored from. 
 

it was clear in that game that evans was struggling as he couldn’t sprint .....odd we wouldn’t play deeper to allow for that but then the coach seems to occupy a parallel universe sometimes where the game on the iPad is more relevant than the one actually playing out infront of him 

Every defender has been guilty of stepping up or not stepping up when we've been playing a three, so kind of puts to bed this idea we are more organised with Evans in there. It's been happening with him or without him. And as you say persisting with a high line when Evans was struggling to sprint.

 

I stand by why I started this thread, and I'm happy to admit Evans is playing much better than he was back then, but lets not pretend we're some super tight, organised defensive unit when he plays in this three. We've look a car crash numerous times. When Evans is at his best I'm a big fan, but people are too quick to stick a cape on him and paint an S on the front of his shirt. He's just as culpable for out errors as the others at times.

[funkyrobot]

Evans is our best centre back, that’s a fact. Without him we are weaker in a 5 or a four. If he was fit I would have Wes Morgan back in as his replacement for his leadership and defending qualities. We have no other cover for that experience. Soyuncu and Fofana are both deputies, still working on their own games, not able to organise at this top level. Yet. 

[Blue-fox]

I don’t think we look comfortable in a three, with or without Evans. However we looked the best defensively in a three with Fuchs as a left centre half. 

 

I think he’s playing three to accommodate not having to drop one of them, but for me the defence should (based on current availability) 

 

castagne

fofana

evans ( if available next game)
Fuchs/Thomas

 

When everyone is fit it should be 

 

Castange

fofana 

evans

justin

 

[KrefelderFox666]

We can cope without Evans but not in a formation like yesterday. Would have been better with Fuchs in the back 3.

 

Ideally, we should play a back 4 with Castagne and Ricardo but it creates issues in the front players trying to fit everyone in.

[Manwell Pablo]

On 08/05/2021 at 07:05, Facecloth said:

So Southampton didn't get through our back three a couple of times? West Ham weren't getting through us like a hot knife through butter? Palace didn't have numerous chances they ****ed up, including the one Evans himself got the last ditch tackle to prevent Benteke scoring. Newcastle were clinical in front of goal tonight where the others weren't, but three at the back has been conceding chances for weeks, we've just been lucky at times the opposition haven't taken them.

There’s a difference between a decent side like West Ham making chances and scoring goals, Southampton getting through a few times in a 1-1 draw, and Newcastle United who have been terrible all season,  rocking up and sticking four goals past us which could of been more and pathetic individual errors being a main contributor to that.

 

Cloud cuckoo land if you think Timothy Castagne is anywhere near the level of Johnny Evans at centre half in a back three. He's a big miss if we are insistent on playing a back three.

[Facecloth]

15 minutes ago, Manwell Pablo said:

There’s a difference between a decent side like West Ham making chances and scoring goals, Southampton getting through a few times in a 1-1 draw, and Newcastle United who have been terrible all season,  rocking up and sticking four goals past us which could of been more and pathetic individual errors being a main contributor to that.

 

Cloud cuckoo land if you think Timothy Castagne is anywhere near the level of Johnny Evans at centre half in a back three. He's a big miss if we are insistent on playing a back three.

Didn't say he wasn't a miss, I'm just saying it's not right that the back three is some kind amazingly solid impenetrable unit with him either. Of course I don't think Castagne is as good a centre back as Evans, he a bloody full back. Would we probably given away less chances with Evan? Maybe. Would we still have given away plenty and lost the game, almost certainly.

 

The point is we shouldn't be insistent on playing a back 3, Jonny Evans or no Jonny Evans as we're a bloody car crash.

[Manwell Pablo]

3 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

Didn't say he wasn't a miss, I'm just saying it's not right that the back three is some kind amazingly solid impenetrable unit with him either. Of course I don't think Castagne is as good a centre back as Evans, he a bloody full back. Would we probably given away less chances with Evan? Maybe. Would we still have given away plenty and lost the game, almost certainly.

 

The point is we shouldn't be insistent on playing a back 3, Jonny Evans or no Jonny Evans as we're a bloody car crash.

 

Not convinced we’d have lost, and I’m pretty certain we are going to struggle against the teams we have left without him. 

As for the back 3 in general, that’s a different discussion but I wouldn’t hold your breath in regards to him changing it.

 

 

[TrickyTrevLeftPeg]

I can probably understand why the club would want Tarkowski now as a 4th CB and we've been linked with him past few windows.

 

Without Evans experience and marshalling the back line soyuncu and Fofana looked nowhere near as good Without him by their side.

[STUHILL]

I have a feeling he will be back for the FA Cup final 

[filbertway]

Rodgers: We expect Johnny to be back before the end of the season.

 

Narrator: Johnny Evans never played for the club again

[filbertway]

35 minutes ago, TrickyTrevLeftPeg said:

I can probably understand why the club would want Tarkowski now as a 4th CB and we've been linked with him past few windows.

 

Without Evans experience and marshalling the back line soyuncu and Fofana looked nowhere near as good Without him by their side.

The issue is, Tarkowski is absolutely doggo and would be shown up when he's not playing in a back 8.

[Facecloth]

1 hour ago, Manwell Pablo said:

 

Not convinced we’d have lost, and I’m pretty certain we are going to struggle against the teams we have left without him. 

As for the back 3 in general, that’s a different discussion but I wouldn’t hold your breath in regards to him changing it.

 

 

I had a flick through our games earlier, it's not easy to put together stats as I couldn't find a record of the games he hadn't played, so was clicking each line up to check . Also he plays most our games, so finding a pattern of results without writing it all down wasn't really possible. But from what I gathered in the glance through I took, was that we're neither better or worse with him in the team in reality. I know it a very simplistic view and I wasn't noting down goal conceded stats, and maybe when I get chance I will, but my early analysis is it doesn't make too much difference.