moore_94 Posted 12 July 2021 Posted 12 July 2021 2 minutes ago, kingfox said: If we want to compete with those around us and have the ability to get top four, then those are the types of signings we need to be making. I mentioned Everton for a reason, because they not only have depth at CB, they spent 20-25 million on the likes of Ben Godfrey, who has turned out to be a fantastic signing for them. Tarkowski hasn’t been straightforward, we all know that, Burnley have been quoted to wanting 40 million for him, nobody is going to pay that for him. I and a few others have just thrown Andersen out there because of curiosity, because we know he’s available and in some aspects he’d fit the bill. As I’ve said already, you either get a stop gap CB on a free like we’re doing with Bertrand, or you go out and spend on a long term option now 🤷♂️ Yes but there is still a massive difference in what we NEED and what we CAN sign. All well and good Everton have depth at centre back, but now look at the depth of their squad in pretty much every other position on the pitch? They have depth at centre back because it has been the ONLY position they have seemingly spent money on to improve their depth, where as we have improved the depth of our squad all over. You do know opinions can change right? Just because Rodgers said something back in May doesn't mean his opinions are the exact same 2 months later? He also didn't say EVERY player we sign had to fill all those conditions. He also didn't specify exactly how many players he wanted to bring in with experience, he could perfectly happy with Bertrand as the only "older" player coming in.
UHDrive Posted 12 July 2021 Posted 12 July 2021 For me this year was always about strengthening. A lot of arguments seem to be about age and inexperience but as far as i can tell I think even the club know that that would be foolish to make signings based on that alone. Defence: Fofana. Top player. Considering he's 20, superb adjustment and with his first full PL year then 👏. Soyuncu: Love the guy. If he has leadership issues then that's for the club to sort out, but I haven't seen any. Ozan Kabak: I would see him as age/experience, and we need to know about accomplishments and international caps etc to right players off. There is a tenancy in the prem leugue for defensive players to be mature and rugged and last longer with lower stamina needs as opposed to more forward players. Defenders these days though are more athletic and powerful as ever. If Kabak comes in then 1. This club will turn him into the best player he'll ever be of himself and 2. He'll use his physical attributes, athleticism and height to help to start to fix our woeful set peice defending. Youth/experience - if we have a back 4 of Bertrand, Soyuncu, Fofana, Castagne - then how can that be lacking in leadership. You've got schmeichel behind them and 2 of the best/maturest defenders In the leugue. I've seen Soyuncu play without Evans and when he switches to right of centre onto his natural foot then he's a lot better. If we have a back 3 of Kabak, Soyuncu, Fofana then Soyuncu at 25ys takes the lead on his right side in the middle that he's more suited to. And again, you have experienced wingbacks either side and schmeichel behind them. I would hope/think that our defensive problems would be addressed regardless for this coming season and I for one am trusting the club on this signing. 1
kingfox Posted 12 July 2021 Posted 12 July 2021 2 minutes ago, moore_94 said: Yes but there is still a massive difference in what we NEED and what we CAN sign. All well and good Everton have depth at centre back, but now look at the depth of their squad in pretty much every other position on the pitch? They have depth at centre back because it has been the ONLY position they have seemingly spent money on to improve their depth, where as we have improved the depth of our squad all over. You do know opinions can change right? Just because Rodgers said something back in May doesn't mean his opinions are the exact same 2 months later? He also didn't say EVERY player we sign had to fill all those conditions. He also didn't specify exactly how many players he wanted to bring in with experience, he could perfectly happy with Bertrand as the only "older" player coming in. We need a CB who can preferably step in when Evans is out, who has similar qualities to him. The obsession with signing young players has to stop somewhere, in some positions we are crying out for experience, that being in defence. We’re signing Bertrand but that’s not enough, especially as we’ve lost Wes, plus a lack of experience and leadership has been a weakness of ours. I don’t care about Everton in other positions, you mentioned spending money on 3rd/4th centre backs, Everton are just a team who have done exactly that, we should look to do the same, especially as we’re a better team than them and are chasing top four. I’m only going by what Rodgers has said, the signings we’ve made so far fit in with exactly what he said, I expect that pattern to continue, especially when it comes to needing another defender. You take Evans out the equation, then we’re fvcked. Signing a 21 year old to potentially step in to replace such a key figure in our side, makes little sense. 1
STUHILL Posted 12 July 2021 Posted 12 July 2021 Anyone willing to donate 50p for Kingfox's shirt with Kabak on the back? 4
MGLCFC Posted 12 July 2021 Posted 12 July 2021 8 minutes ago, kingfox said: We need a CB who can preferably step in when Evans is out, who has similar qualities to him. The obsession with signing young players has to stop somewhere, in some positions we are crying out for experience, that being in defence. We’re signing Bertrand but that’s not enough, especially as we’ve lost Wes, plus a lack of experience and leadership has been a weakness of ours. I don’t care about Everton in other positions, you mentioned spending money on 3rd/4th centre backs, Everton are just a team who have done exactly that, we should look to do the same, especially as we’re a better team than them and are chasing top four. I’m only going by what Rodgers has said, the signings we’ve made so far fit in with exactly what he said, I expect that pattern to continue, especially when it comes to needing another defender. You take Evans out the equation, then we’re fvcked. Signing a 21 year old to potentially step in to replace such a key figure in our side, makes little sense. I think your argument is valid, but the problem is how much to spend on an Evans back up If not a lot, will they be good enough If, say Tarkowski, will he be happy to be a rotational player and will the club want to spend that amount of money on a back up defender. Also, BR hinted he wanted more attacking options, so any large spend is likely to go on a RW, I would have presumed. 1
st albans fox Posted 12 July 2021 Posted 12 July 2021 Are we contractually obliged to get cags a playmate every season ??. 1
kingfox Posted 12 July 2021 Posted 12 July 2021 4 minutes ago, STUHILL said: Anyone willing to donate 50p for Kingfox's shirt with Kabak on the back? Don’t do Leicester City Adidas shirts, they are as shambolic as some of the posters in this thread. 5 minutes ago, MGLCFC said: I think your argument is valid, but the problem is how much to spend on an Evans back up If not a lot, will they be good enough If, say Tarkowski, will he be happy to be a rotational player and will the club want to spend that amount of money on a back up defender. Also, BR hinted he wanted more attacking options, so any large spend is likely to go on a RW, I would have presumed. Personally this season, I wouldn’t spend a penny. I’d go the Bertrand route and get in a stop gap. Some people may laugh at the call for someone like Cahill or Fonte, but I guess those fans also laughed and were disappointed when we linked with Bertrand. At this moment in time though, those types of signings make perfect sense, especially when the defence is concerned. They fit the bill on exactly what Rodgers is looking for. Winners ✔️ Experienced ✔️ Tarkowski is unlikely this summer, that’s why I’d prefer a stop gap, then see what the situation is with him next summer. I only threw Andersen’s name out there, in case we end up making a long term signing, as I believe he’d make more sense than Kabak. No idea what Rodgers will do regarding RW, many fans expect us and want us to spend big on that position, the way we’ve teetered formations, I wouldn’t be surprised in the slightest if that doesn’t even happen. 2
Guest Posted 12 July 2021 Posted 12 July 2021 28 minutes ago, STUHILL said: Anyone willing to donate 50p for Kingfox's shirt with Kabak on the back? Or EXPERIENCE 2
Kierzz Posted 12 July 2021 Posted 12 July 2021 49 minutes ago, UHDrive said: For me this year was always about strengthening. A lot of arguments seem to be about age and inexperience but as far as i can tell I think even the club know that that would be foolish to make signings based on that alone. Defence: Fofana. Top player. Considering he's 20, superb adjustment and with his first full PL year then 👏. Soyuncu: Love the guy. If he has leadership issues then that's for the club to sort out, but I haven't seen any. Ozan Kabak: I would see him as age/experience, and we need to know about accomplishments and international caps etc to right players off. There is a tenancy in the prem leugue for defensive players to be mature and rugged and last longer with lower stamina needs as opposed to more forward players. Defenders these days though are more athletic and powerful as ever. If Kabak comes in then 1. This club will turn him into the best player he'll ever be of himself and 2. He'll use his physical attributes, athleticism and height to help to start to fix our woeful set peice defending. Youth/experience - if we have a back 4 of Bertrand, Soyuncu, Fofana, Castagne - then how can that be lacking in leadership. You've got schmeichel behind them and 2 of the best/maturest defenders In the leugue. I've seen Soyuncu play without Evans and when he switches to right of centre onto his natural foot then he's a lot better. If we have a back 3 of Kabak, Soyuncu, Fofana then Soyuncu at 25ys takes the lead on his right side in the middle that he's more suited to. And again, you have experienced wingbacks either side and schmeichel behind them. I would hope/think that our defensive problems would be addressed regardless for this coming season and I for one am trusting the club on this signing. We always struggle without Evans. But as you say, Soyuncu needs to step up - he will be turning 26 next season so I don't class him as young anymore. However, our defence held up well in the FA cup final and Evans went off injured within the first 20mins 1
weller54 Posted 12 July 2021 Posted 12 July 2021 3 minutes ago, Kierzz said: We always struggle without Evans. But as you say, Soyuncu needs to step up - he will be turning 26 next season so I don't class him as young anymore. However, our defence held up well in the FA cup final and Evans went off injured within the first 20mins Rode our luck a bit and Kasper saved our bacon!
gurru991 Posted 12 July 2021 Posted 12 July 2021 47 minutes ago, kingfox said: We need a CB who can preferably step in when Evans is out, who has similar qualities to him. The obsession with signing young players has to stop somewhere, in some positions we are crying out for experience, that being in defence. We’re signing Bertrand but that’s not enough, especially as we’ve lost Wes, plus a lack of experience and leadership has been a weakness of ours. I don’t care about Everton in other positions, you mentioned spending money on 3rd/4th centre backs, Everton are just a team who have done exactly that, we should look to do the same, especially as we’re a better team than them and are chasing top four. I’m only going by what Rodgers has said, the signings we’ve made so far fit in with exactly what he said, I expect that pattern to continue, especially when it comes to needing another defender. You take Evans out the equation, then we’re fvcked. Signing a 21 year old to potentially step in to replace such a key figure in our side, makes little sense. It's not a like for like as we are expecting Cags to step up & replace Evans & Ozan to fill in for Cags.
kingfox Posted 12 July 2021 Posted 12 July 2021 10 minutes ago, gurru991 said: It's not a like for like as we are expecting Cags to step up & replace Evans & Ozan to fill in for Cags. Some fans presume Cags is leadership material because he’s 25 and been with us a few season’s. Not every defender ends up being leadership material, since signing with us, Cags has never striked me as a player who is a leader and a future captain. He’s been a fantastic defender for us, but a big reason for that is his partnership and understanding with Evans. We’ve seen in the past, you take out Evans, then Cags can become a liability, we saw that at times last season, especially in a back three. Then with Turkey at the Euros, he’s their key defender but defensively they were shambolic.
NasPb Posted 12 July 2021 Posted 12 July 2021 Did we not sign a sheffield lad from a relegated side years back? 1
Raw Dykes Posted 12 July 2021 Posted 12 July 2021 I think an experienced player would be preferable to another young player at CB, but if we really are in for Kabak, then I expect the club have decided the deal is too good to turn down. It's probably the case that the ideal player isn't available at the right price this summer. I'd rather we got Kabak and a decent RW, than spent more on the CB and got no-one else in. This is a player we've been after for a while and he's going for relative peanuts. Won't surprise me to see us sign him. Could turn out to be another masterstroke. 3
Hack Posted 13 July 2021 Posted 13 July 2021 4 hours ago, MGLCFC said: Couldn't Kabak be a good signing for us, at half the price. Same sort of risk as Godfrey was for Everton. Kabak is still young and is a class player. Also for us, I don't think this has been mentioned on here but his teammate on the Turkish national team is our own Soyoncu. They have a clear working relationship and think this would be a major reason to bring him in.
kingfox Posted 13 July 2021 Posted 13 July 2021 Remember when Robert Huth retired, who did we replace him with? Oh yeah, an EXPERIENCED(my favourite word in the dictionary) centre back in Jonny Evans. We are now in the same boat after the retirement of Big Wes. Use your brains guys Now, I’ve talked too much sense for one day, it’s tired me out, goodnight. 1
gurru991 Posted 13 July 2021 Posted 13 July 2021 1 hour ago, kingfox said: Remember when Robert Huth retired, who did we replace him with? Oh yeah, an EXPERIENCED(my favourite word in the dictionary) centre back in Jonny Evans. We are now in the same boat after the retirement of Big Wes. Use your brains guys Now, I’ve talked too much sense for one day, it’s tired me out, goodnight. It is never going to play out the same way every time. Evans happened to be available at the time for a very low price. Deals like that won't happen too often ! Kabak happens to be available right now for a very reasonable price & while he is not a direct replacement for Jonny (I'm not dead yet) Evans he is quality & could help the team succeed in Europe & the Cups !! 1
KFS Posted 13 July 2021 Posted 13 July 2021 2 hours ago, kingfox said: Remember when Robert Huth retired, who did we replace him with? Oh yeah, an EXPERIENCED(my favourite word in the dictionary) centre back in Jonny Evans. We are now in the same boat after the retirement of Big Wes. Use your brains guys Now, I’ve talked too much sense for one day, it’s tired me out, goodnight. Old King Fox is back. I’ve missed you you bellend. 3
Dan Posted 13 July 2021 Posted 13 July 2021 11 hours ago, RowlattsFox said: I get what people mean about us needing experience but Soyuncu is not a kid anymore. Needs to step up his leadership skills this season. No value signing 'experience' unless it's on a free or very low fee like Evans. This is true. He's not a kid anymore. 1
Dahnsouff Posted 13 July 2021 Posted 13 July 2021 I get what @kingfox is saying, I also think we would benefit from more experience at the back. However, its not so simple, we clearly like Tarkowski, but currently, he is too expensive, so we get a stop gap to add depth until Tarkowski is free next year Or alternatively we p/x someone to Burnley, someone who reportedly would like more game time, someone who seems a decent fit for Burnley..... 1 1
Big Dave Posted 13 July 2021 Posted 13 July 2021 7 hours ago, Hack said: Kabak is still young and is a class player. Also for us, I don't think this has been mentioned on here but his teammate on the Turkish national team is our own Soyoncu. They have a clear working relationship and think this would be a major reason to bring him in. Yes, they do know each other’s games. However, Turkey we’re absolute bobbins at the Euros.
kingfox Posted 13 July 2021 Posted 13 July 2021 5 hours ago, gurru991 said: It is never going to play out the same way every time. Evans happened to be available at the time for a very low price. Deals like that won't happen too often ! Kabak happens to be available right now for a very reasonable price & while he is not a direct replacement for Jonny (I'm not dead yet) Evans he is quality & could help the team succeed in Europe & the Cups !! We are in the same predicament we found ourselves in, in 2018/2019. Robert Huth retired, he needed replacing with someone with experience, we got in Evans. We also signed Soyuncu because we needed a 3rd/4th choice centre back. That season we had Evans, Morgan & Maguire playing prominent roles. 2019/2020 season we were very fortunate that Evans & Soyuncu played the majority of Premier League games, yet we still had Wes to call upon the few times he was needed. Last season we weren’t so fortunate, Wes took an even bigger back seat, Evans, Soyuncu & Fofana all missed periods through injury, at times we were very disjointed especially when Evans was out. We’ve now lost Wes, plus if Evans has injury problems now and then, we’d be left with an inexperienced trio if we get in Kabak, haven’t some fans learned nothing from last season? Another Evans type signing, at this moment in time is needed, players of his ilk are available. 5 hours ago, KFS said: Old King Fox is back. I’ve missed you you bellend. Just putting the delusional folk in their place mate. They never see the bigger picture, all they see is the fact we are linked with yet another young player and end up lusting over them. Bit like me and Patty Bamford back in the day 1
Attywolf Posted 13 July 2021 Posted 13 July 2021 16 minutes ago, kingfox said: We are in the same predicament we found ourselves in, in 2018/2019. Robert Huth retired, he needed replacing with someone with experience, we got in Evans. We also signed Soyuncu because we needed a 3rd/4th choice centre back. That season we had Evans, Morgan & Maguire playing prominent roles. 2019/2020 season we were very fortunate that Evans & Soyuncu played the majority of Premier League games, yet we still had Wes to call upon the few times he was needed. Last season we weren’t so fortunate, Wes took an even bigger back seat, Evans, Soyuncu & Fofana all missed periods through injury, at times we were very disjointed especially when Evans was out. We’ve now lost Wes, plus if Evans has injury problems now and then, we’d be left with an inexperienced trio if we get in Kabak, haven’t some fans learned nothing from last season? Another Evans type signing, at this moment in time is needed, players of his ilk are available. Just putting the delusional folk in their place mate. They never see the bigger picture, all they see is the fact we are linked with yet another young player and end up lusting over them. Bit like me and Patty Bamford back in the day Is experience what is needed to make a disjointed defence work.how old was the defender man city got that fixed their defence?
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