The "do they mean us?" thread pt 3

[SkidsFox]

Is it possible he could be talking about a couple of ex-Leicester players? (I know he's speaking generally)

 

 

[coolhandfox]

How can you judge a signing who hasn't played a minute.

[Vlad the Fox]

11 minutes ago, SkidsFox said:

Is it possible he could be talking about a couple of ex-Leicester players? (I know he's speaking generally)

 

 

See this is my take on it. While I can get why players don’t want to cancel contracts or make certain moves but surely as a footballer you want to play. A lot of these players not playing have earned good money and are sitting comfortably yet their career is short, surely they’d want to play, what happened to the kid that dreamed of being a pro footballer and has lived his dream, would that kid have been happy not playing and earning a wedge?
 

I’ve always felt that if I was in their situation and a club didn’t want me id be looking to move just so I could play, like Albrighton at West Brom and Deeney. But maybe that’s a fans perspective who has never come close to being a pro footballer. 

[Langston]

Almost as if they've done it for engagement isn't it!

[Matt]

14 minutes ago, Vlad the Fox said:

See this is my take on it. While I can get why players don’t want to cancel contracts or make certain moves but surely as a footballer you want to play. A lot of these players not playing have earned good money and are sitting comfortably yet their career is short, surely they’d want to play, what happened to the kid that dreamed of being a pro footballer and has lived his dream, would that kid have been happy not playing and earning a wedge?
 

I’ve always felt that if I was in their situation and a club didn’t want me id be looking to move just so I could play, like Albrighton at West Brom and Deeney. But maybe that’s a fans perspective who has never come close to being a pro footballer. 

Totally get you.

 

Never understood it.

 

I get the argument they're "backing themselves to play at the highest level" but there's got to be a level of realism.

 

Kalvin Phillips to Man City, he was never gonna play, Danny Drinkwater to Chelsea, he was never gonna play. (Although somehow Phillips keeps being picked for England. Madness)

 

That's only two examples admittedly but two off the top of my head.

 

The other argument that been made to me is they "wanna win medals" - Fine, but when you've not really had a part in the winning them isn't it all abit hollow?

 

Anyone playing at the top level or even near it, is earning outrageous money, I get more wants more, I get being a footballer is a short career, I also appreciate its easy for me to say from my perspective but even if it was on slightly less money if I had the talent to be playing at that level i'd want to be playing, week in, week out.

 

Edited 8 September 2023 by Matt

[Langston]

6 minutes ago, Matt said:

Totally get you.

 

Never understood it.

 

I get the argument they're "backing themselves to play at the highest level" but there's got to be a level of realism.

 

Kalvin Phillips to Man City, he was never gonna play, Danny Drinkwater to Chelsea, he was never gonna play. (Although somehow Phillips keeps being picked for England. Madness)

 

That's only two examples admittedly but two off the top of my head.

 

The other argument that been made to me is they "wanna win medals" - Fine, but when you've not really had a part in the winning them isn't it all abit hollow?

 

Anyone playing at the top level or even near it, is earning outrageous money, I get more wants more, I get being a footballer is a short career, I also appreciate its easy for me to say from my perspective but even if it was on slightly less money if I had the talent to be playing at that level i'd want to be playing, week in, week out.

 

 

I sort of get your point but I'm not sure these are good examples. In the defence of Phillips and Drinkwater — if a club is willing to drop £42 million and £35 million respectively on you — you aren't moving thinking you're "never gonna play." Both were pursued for sustained periods, too.

[Matt]

20 minutes ago, Langston said:

 

I sort of get your point but I'm not sure these are good examples. In the defence of Phillips and Drinkwater — if a club is willing to drop £42 million and £35 million respectively on you — you aren't moving thinking you're "never gonna play." Both were pursued for sustained periods, too.

Fair enough but the figures of those players are chicken feed to what both of those clubs choose to spend.

 

Edited 8 September 2023 by Matt

[Langston]

9 minutes ago, Matt said:

Fair enough but the figures of those players are chicken feed to what both of those clubs choose to spend.

 

 

At the time, Chelsea had only spent more on 7 other players in their history. And very very very rarely, if at all (willing to be proven wrong) do Man City spend that amount on a player who is there to pad the squad out.

[CosbehFox]

1 hour ago, Langston said:

 

I sort of get your point but I'm not sure these are good examples. In the defence of Phillips and Drinkwater — if a club is willing to drop £42 million and £35 million respectively on you — you aren't moving thinking you're "never gonna play." Both were pursued for sustained periods, too.

And why would you not believe in your ability? It’s one of the biggest factors in professional sport. 

[Langston]

13 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

And why would you not believe in your ability? It’s one of the biggest factors in professional sport. 

In Drinkwater’s case too he was moving to a club who had already signed the midfield partner he’d hit an incredible high with. Surely he thinks he can replicate that? He’s obviously not without his well publicised flaws but I’ll never accept his move to Chelsea was purely money motivated, and many forget he was about our only player who looked like a professional footballer at the start of 16/17.

 

On a different note, I don’t feel sad or sorry for how his career has panned out, but I do think it’s a shame people assume at a glance he was only good next to Kante. He was phenomenal for us and well worth more than the miserly amount of England caps he got at a time when the national team was on its knees.

Edited 8 September 2023 by Langston

[Spudulike]

2 hours ago, Matt said:

Totally get you.

 

Never understood it.

 

I get the argument they're "backing themselves to play at the highest level" but there's got to be a level of realism.

 

Kalvin Phillips to Man City, he was never gonna play, Danny Drinkwater to Chelsea, he was never gonna play. (Although somehow Phillips keeps being picked for England. Madness)

 

That's only two examples admittedly but two off the top of my head.

 

The other argument that been made to me is they "wanna win medals" - Fine, but when you've not really had a part in the winning them isn't it all abit hollow?

 

Anyone playing at the top level or even near it, is earning outrageous money, I get more wants more, I get being a footballer is a short career, I also appreciate its easy for me to say from my perspective but even if it was on slightly less money if I had the talent to be playing at that level i'd want to be playing, week in, week out.

 

He didn't have to. It weakened a rival which we were at that time. 

[Paninistickers]

2 hours ago, Matt said:

Totally get you.

 

Never understood it.

 

I get the argument they're "backing themselves to play at the highest level" but there's got to be a level of realism.

 

Kalvin Phillips to Man City, he was never gonna play, Danny Drinkwater to Chelsea, he was never gonna play. (Although somehow Phillips keeps being picked for England. Madness)

 

That's only two examples admittedly but two off the top of my head.

 

The other argument that been made to me is they "wanna win medals" - Fine, but when you've not really had a part in the winning them isn't it all abit hollow?

 

Anyone playing at the top level or even near it, is earning outrageous money, I get more wants more, I get being a footballer is a short career, I also appreciate its easy for me to say from my perspective but even if it was on slightly less money if I had the talent to be playing at that level i'd want to be playing, week in, week out.

 

I wonder if players do it because they think they ought to? 

 

I feel slightly awkward for using myself as an example, but I ran a.small.bisiness for eight years and a really nice, well meaning accountant at a big practice in town did my accounts and had a chat about growth and development....I asked him if I had to grow. Couldn't I just more or less stay as I am? Well, yes, was the answer. My point is, do players get sucked in to the orthodoxy of climbing the pyramid like we all do in growing business, selling more, getting promotion at work?

 

 

[coolhandfox]

I think people will be surprised how many player don't play for the love of the game.

 

The game has changed in 50, 60, 70, 80, due to the more realistic money a lot played for glory to win trophies. They watch their idols win trophies but still be like them the common man.

 

Now kids watch footballer live kings, wealth, all the toys money can buy, female attention the lot.

 

Same with fans they would rather finish 4th so the club gets more money then win the FA cup.

 

You only have to see maddison box a spurs to know the game has gone.

[Langston]

21 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

I think people will be surprised how many player don't play for the love of the game.

 

The game has changed in 50, 60, 70, 80, due to the more realistic money a lot played for glory to win trophies. They watch their idols win trophies but still be like them the common man.

 

Now kids watch footballer live kings, wealth, all the toys money can buy, female attention the lot.

 

Same with fans they would rather finish 4th so the club gets more money then win the FA cup.

 

You only have to see maddison box a spurs to know the game has gone.

 

Yes, the "game has gone" because of a naff spray painted mural.

[Leeds Fox]

6 hours ago, Vlad the Fox said:

See this is my take on it. While I can get why players don’t want to cancel contracts or make certain moves but surely as a footballer you want to play. A lot of these players not playing have earned good money and are sitting comfortably yet their career is short, surely they’d want to play, what happened to the kid that dreamed of being a pro footballer and has lived his dream, would that kid have been happy not playing and earning a wedge?
 

I’ve always felt that if I was in their situation and a club didn’t want me id be looking to move just so I could play, like Albrighton at West Brom and Deeney. But maybe that’s a fans perspective who has never come close to being a pro footballer. 

There’s a difference between taking a loan and still picking up your Prem wage and moving onto a lower salary (I know the salary deficit in a lot of contracts are honoured by the selling club until it’s due to expire).

 

Deeney seems to be hinting more towards, out of contract players won’t drop down from where they’ve become accustomed to playing. 

[LCFCJohn]

I don’t think you can blame a player for making the move to a big club. I’m happy to give the benefit of the doubt that they back their ability. And even if someone like Phillips for example is not a key part of the side who wins the Premier League (even if he picks a medal up for a few appearances) or the CL, he may play a genuine part of winning the domestic cups.

 

Where I question them is when a player clearly is surplus to requirements and won’t play but end up hanging around with that saying ‘other clubs can’t match his wage’.

 

Well that’s a choice. You are not tied into keeping that wage or for your current club to pay you the difference. As a player, you could accept to take a drop from say £100k p/w to £80k or £70k. Yes people will say ‘why should they, they were given the contract’. And no, they don’t have to. But they should also then fully understand that they will be judged as prioritising money over actually being a footballer.

[Dahnsouff]

 Because agents

[RumbleFox]

9 hours ago, coolhandfox said:

I think people will be surprised how many player don't play for the love of the game.

 

The game has changed in 50, 60, 70, 80, due to the more realistic money a lot played for glory to win trophies. They watch their idols win trophies but still be like them the common man.

 

Now kids watch footballer live kings, wealth, all the toys money can buy, female attention the lot.

 

Same with fans they would rather finish 4th so the club gets more money then win the FA cup.

 

You only have to see maddison box a spurs to know the game has gone.

I worked with a lad that was offered a full time contract with Rangers and he wasn’t sure whether he’d take it or not. He genuinely just didn’t have that passion, seemed to see it as a job like any other. It’s hard to believe for fans that would do anything to play professional football for a living but I suppose some people might just not get the enjoyment out of it we do. He didn’t take it in the end. 

Edited 9 September 2023 by RumbleFox

[Guest Sideshow Faes]

Not convinced by arguments that they should want to play.

 

I can imagine that halfway through your twenties you'd be sick of football. Every single day training, listening to tactics talks, doing rondos and drills. 

 

Match day would obviously be the high point but there's little room for individualism in many coaching set ups. Playing in a very technical and tactical way, keeping the ball, dropping deep in defence. Reading constant criticism of your displays. Media constantly looking to get an angle or create a headline. Not really being free to talk honestly. 

 

Football every day. Not allowed to play to your own style. Not allowed to use your own ideas. Criticised for every error but back in Monday for yet another week of drills. 

 

It would be my dream, but I think it would become a job and become boring like any other.

 

I can imagine if I was good at art and an artist it could be very free and fun, but if was asked to keep drawing the same thing every day to somebody else's design it would no longer be fun.

[Out Foxed]

10 hours ago, coolhandfox said:

=

 

Same with fans they would rather finish 4th so the club gets more money then win the FA cup.

 

 

your inability to differentiate between then and than changes the whole complexion of that sentence..

[Steve Earle]

14 hours ago, SkidsFox said:

Is it possible he could be talking about a couple of ex-Leicester players? (I know he's speaking generally)

 

 

Top man Troy.

[coolhandfox]

45 minutes ago, Out Foxed said:

your inability to differentiate between then and than changes the whole complexion of that sentence..

Trying to be smart over a typo and not using capitals and full stops correctly. 

 

Didn't realise it was a spelling bee rather then a football forum.

 

 

Edited 9 September 2023 by coolhandfox

[Spudulike]

Doesn't help when the ex-pro thicko pundits declare that any player doing well 'deserves' to be at one of the filthy six. 

 

Or players go away on England duty and rub shoulders and become besties with young entitled twats having money thrown at them from other clubs.

[Blarmy]

1 hour ago, coolhandfox said:

Trying to be smart over a typo and not using capitals and full stops correctly. 

 

Didn't realise it was a spelling bee rather then a football forum.

 

 

Have arrived*

[The Bear]

2 hours ago, Blarmy said:

Have arrived*

Unless it means the action of spelling the word "police" has arrived.