Ukraine

[marbles]

17 minutes ago, Line-X said:

A bj courtesy of Monika Lewinsky? I think the more troubling issue was that like Trump, he was willing to lie in office, under oath and to the American people. 

That Lewinsky thing is a big no no when it comes to employer/employee relationships.
 

Guess you forgot about the fact that he hung out with Epstein (possibly on kiddie-island)

You also seem to forget that he also lied in office, under oath and to the American people - which led to his impeachment.

 

BTW, I’m not excusing/defending Trump.  I just think it’s funny when people point out his ridiculousness, without realizing others did the same or sometimes worse.

Edited 7 March 2022 by marbles

[SpacedX]

3 minutes ago, marbles said:

Guess you forgot about the speculation about him hanging out with Epstein (possibly on kiddie-island)

You also seem to forget that he also lied in office, under oath and to the American people - which led to his impeachment.

 

BTW, I’m not excusing/defending Trump.  I just think it’s funny when people point out his ridiculousness, without realizing others did the same or sometimes worse.

No, I didn't forget at all and I do agree.

 

Remember though, Trump’s fanboys were happy to countenance  - actually, overlook his cosiness with Epstein, but the moment that Clinton was similarly associated with him they were outraged. Also, when Joe Biden had a claim made against him by a former staffer, the claim was immediately weaponised by the same people who completely glossed over far more numerous allegations against Trump. So actually, it really works both ways. 

 

I'm fairly sure that Clinton's presence on the island has never been proven and that this stems from anecdotal testimony, although significantly, Giuffre herself. 

 

I think we really need to leave it there otherwise this will be the third thread that comes under the threat of extinction. I do take your point though. One for the politics thread perhaps? 

[David Hankey]

2 hours ago, MPH said:

 

from what I can remember NATO has welcomed the notion of Ukraine joining. 
 

 

 

Why would they not?

My understanding is that Ukraine began negotiations to join NATO back in 2008 but after elections in 2010 the then president of Ukraine, Yanukovych, appeared to get cold feet and decided to abandon the plan.

[SpacedX]

26 minutes ago, David Hankey said:

My understanding is that Ukraine began negotiations to join NATO back in 2008 but after elections in 2010 the then president of Ukraine, Yanukovych, appeared to get cold feet and decided to abandon the plan.

And when Yushchenko was contesting the elections with a presidential candidate favoured by Russia. oddly enough, he was poisoned with a dioxin. Who on earth could have been responsible for that? 

[SpacedX]

[goody2028]

27 minutes ago, Line-X said:

Such a brave brave man. Not for what’s going on over there but for wanting to speak to Boris 

[SpacedX]

4 minutes ago, goody2028 said:

Such a brave brave man. Not for what’s going on over there but for wanting to speak to Boris 

He's going to question him about so called 'work events'.

 

[st albans fox]

42 minutes ago, Line-X said:

At least it means we will have heard a statesman speak in the chamber since what seems like an eternity   ……

Edited 7 March 2022 by st albans fox

[Tinman]

 

[yorkie1999]

2 hours ago, marbles said:

That Lewinsky thing is a big no no when it comes to employer/employee relationships.
 

Guess you forgot about the fact that he hung out with Epstein (possibly on kiddie-island)

You also seem to forget that he also lied in office, under oath and to the American people - which led to his impeachment.

 

BTW, I’m not excusing/defending Trump.  I just think it’s funny when people point out his ridiculousness, without realizing others did the same or sometimes worse.

Well, it’s not if you don’t get caught and you’re the employer

[yorkie1999]

42 minutes ago, Tinman said:

 

Saw this earlier and my first thoughts were, what if someone had pissed themselves

[marbles]

https://www.newsweek.com/over-5000-russian-protesters-arrested-since-invasion-ukraine-1683254#:~:text=Over 5%2C000 Russian protesters have been arrested since,according to data from the human rights organization.
 

geez

[Wymsey]

Am not surprised in the slightest that Putin wants to lure Ukrainians his way..

[yorkie1999]

The Russian era crypto phone system broke down because they blew up all the 4G transponders to stop Ukrainian propaganda  so they have to use radio broadcast which is being intercepted by the Ukrainians. Not very high tech is it.

[marbles]

https://nypost.com/2022/03/07/anonymous-hacks-russian-state-tv-with-footage-of-ukraine-war/
 

Im starting to like these guys

[ClaphamFox]

The lest surprising thing in all this is that the former MP for Derby North, and frequent guest of Russia Today, is happy to spout the Kremlin line…

 

 

 

[Jon the Hat]

8 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

The lest surprising thing in all this is that the former MP for Derby North, and frequent guest of Russia Today, is happy to spout the Kremlin line…

 

 

 

Some impressive mental gymnastics on Ukraine giving up its right to self determination yet allow it to the occupied provinces.

[Daggers]

Williamson is a hamper, seven sandwiches, and a large bottle of pop short of a picnic.

[MonkeyTennis?]

1 hour ago, Daggers said:

Williamson is a hamper, seven sandwiches, and a large bottle of pop short of a picnic.

I don't disagree that he's a complete stooge, but despite his unpleasant, belittling tone, what he suggests is a viable way out of the conflict for Ukraine and Russia that should be seriously considered, and I hope the UK government is encouraging Ukraine (in more reasonable terms) to use this as a starting point for negotiations. Ukraine would need to cede ownership of a region that was pretty much already under Russian control, and agree to remain 'neutral,' which is the bigger sticking point because its such a loaded term. But it would be a kind-of step down for Putin, who has been humiliated on the global stage, while also allowing him to claim some kind of victory in line with his whole 'its a special operation' guff. I think the Ukrainian people have shown great bravery and resolve in the face of genuinely evil violence and aggression, and my heart aches for their suffering, but I don't think total victory, for them or Russia, will make the world a safer place now. Some kind of compromise needs to be reached. 

 

Sadly, it wouldn't necessarily guarantee long term security or stability in the region, mainly because Putin is not trustworthy, but personally, I think the current rapid escalation of violence and rhetoric is terrifying, and realpolitik is needed to resolve things. 

[NasPb]

Countries like the uk that have allowed Russian oligarchs to reside and to support putins dictatorship are the biggest hypocrites there are. Both new labour and the Tories have been influenced directly by Russia, Blair praised putin for his actions in Chechnya and the Tories have taken millions from Russian oligarchs. And let it be clear, many nations supported yeltsin even after he rigged the elections, which led directly to the rise of nationalism and putin. You can't have it both ways. If they had taken the threat of war seriously since over 20 years algo we wouldn't be where we are. Doesn't hemp either that these countries have Done the same as Russia in Iraq Libya and other countries killing civilians. 

 

I just feel for the Ukrainian civilians, these governments are  to be blamed for this situation as well. The agreements after the fall of the ussr should have been respected from both sides. 

But you can't condone war in one place and praise it in another. Solidarity with the civilians who suffer above all. 

Negotiations should be based upon the accords after the fall of the ussr, not upon anything else. Russia can't be allowed to take in more and more land.. But you can't set a precedent that war is okay and 100% justifiable when you do it but incorrect when others do it like the west have done. 

 

Solidarity is needed with the Ukrainian people above all, not with the military, but the people. The 99%.

Edited 8 March 2022 by NasPb

[westernpark]

Been keeping tabs on the thread (the many). https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/08/russia-ukraine-war-possible-trajectories
This is worth a read.

There was talk in the Washington Post of Biden considering offering Putin a golden bridge at some point. I believe that will happen to avoid the above. 

[blabyboy]

1 hour ago, westernpark said:

Been keeping tabs on the thread (the many). https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/08/russia-ukraine-war-possible-trajectories
This is worth a read.

There was talk in the Washington Post of Biden considering offering Putin a golden bridge at some point. I believe that will happen to avoid the above. 

A very sobering read, one of the best I've read so far. Thanks.

 

What was the detail of the 'golden bridge' you mentioned?

[westernpark]

7 minutes ago, blabyboy said:

A very sobering read, one of the best I've read so far. Thanks.

 

What was the detail of the 'golden bridge' you mentioned?

Essentially, it will allow him to save face to an extent that is acceptable for both parties. Positively Russia did announce some requirements, for an end to this monstrosity yesterday. That is something to work with. 
But we have to be calm and level headed and even though western leaders may want to denounce quite emotively the evils that he is responsible for, we can’t go all the way and not allow some way back for him. 
This is a long game and if played well, Putin will be gone without the rest of us gone too. 
 

[Nalis]

4 minutes ago, westernpark said:

Essentially, it will allow him to save face to an extent that is acceptable for both parties. Positively Russia did announce some requirements, for an end to this monstrosity yesterday. That is something to work with. 
But we have to be calm and level headed and even though western leaders may want to denounce quite emotively the evils that he is responsible for, we can’t go all the way and not allow some way back for him. 
This is a long game and if played well, Putin will be gone without the rest of us gone too. 
 

Always thought this is how it might go in the end. Calls for stoking the fire, the assassin of Putin or full scale war are a bit silly as it would inevitably means huge losses of live. Your post is essentially the realistic solution and lesser of many evils.

[VLC86]

Messaged my mate in Kiev to see if I could do something to gather what he needs, he said they have no logistics due to constant shelling. **** me