Clever Fox Posted 8 June 2022 Posted 8 June 2022 This would be the first signing I'd make if we can pull it off. Him and NDiddi would make a very solid defensive midfield along with another CB to compliment Fofana and Evans.
Popular Post Stadt Posted 8 June 2022 Popular Post Posted 8 June 2022 I suggested signing him almost 3 years ago, I've got an amateur interest in analytics and it was obvious he's destined for the top, he had a great individual season whilst Toulouse were relegated. We focus on the £15m+ bracket too much now, Sangare left Toulouse for £6m in 2020, even barring a PL premium we'd have paid £10m tops. We should be looking at picking up one or two relatively unproven players for £5m or so every summer. We've probably spent that much on Jakupovic's fee + wages over the last 4 years. 25
sacreblueits442 Posted 8 June 2022 Posted 8 June 2022 11 minutes ago, Stadt said: I suggested signing him almost 3 years ago, I've got an amateur interest in analytics and it was obvious he's destined for the top, he had a great individual season whilst Toulouse were relegated. We focus on the £15m+ bracket too much now, Sangare left Toulouse for £6m in 2020, even barring a PL premium we'd have paid £10m tops. We should be looking at picking up one or two relatively unproven players for £5m or so every summer. We've probably spent that much on Jakupovic's fee + wages over the last 4 years. ...I suppose if you concentrate on the £15m players, at least you know there is quality there, and the only downside is can they make the step up, which is not guaranteed!!! For a club that took a gamble on a £1m non league player and £400th from the French 2nd tier, we need to continue to make bold decisions. 2
Ric Flair Posted 8 June 2022 Posted 8 June 2022 16 minutes ago, Stadt said: I suggested signing him almost 3 years ago, I've got an amateur interest in analytics and it was obvious he's destined for the top, he had a great individual season whilst Toulouse were relegated. We focus on the £15m+ bracket too much now, Sangare left Toulouse for £6m in 2020, even barring a PL premium we'd have paid £10m tops. We should be looking at picking up one or two relatively unproven players for £5m or so every summer. We've probably spent that much on Jakupovic's fee + wages over the last 4 years. Couldn't agree more pal, we really need to look at riskier signings who cost less but are perceived to be more unproven as that's where we've had very good success before anyway. Williot Swedberg or Odin Thiago Holm would be my picks and get them out to Leuven if we can't get WP's off the bat. 3
CloudFox Posted 8 June 2022 Posted 8 June 2022 3 minutes ago, Ric Flair said: Couldn't agree more pal, we really need to look at riskier signings who cost less but are perceived to be more unproven as that's where we've had very good success before anyway. Williot Swedberg or Odin Thiago Holm would be my picks and get them out to Leuven if we can't get WP's off the bat. Yeah, us basically becoming the Sevilla of the PL and picking up unproven talents like that to then turn them into first-teamers or turn over a profit would be a dream for me. 3
HankMarvin Posted 8 June 2022 Posted 8 June 2022 21 minutes ago, Stadt said: I suggested signing him almost 3 years ago, I've got an amateur interest in analytics and it was obvious he's destined for the top, he had a great individual season whilst Toulouse were relegated. We focus on the £15m+ bracket too much now, Sangare left Toulouse for £6m in 2020, even barring a PL premium we'd have paid £10m tops. We should be looking at picking up one or two relatively unproven players for £5m or so every summer. We've probably spent that much on Jakupovic's fee + wages over the last 4 years. Retrospectively it now looks like it was a shame toulouse out at 6m 1
Shane Posted 8 June 2022 Posted 8 June 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Stadt said: I suggested signing him almost 3 years ago, I've got an amateur interest in analytics and it was obvious he's destined for the top, he had a great individual season whilst Toulouse were relegated. We focus on the £15m+ bracket too much now, Sangare left Toulouse for £6m in 2020, even barring a PL premium we'd have paid £10m tops. We should be looking at picking up one or two relatively unproven players for £5m or so every summer. We've probably spent that much on Jakupovic's fee + wages over the last 4 years. Well said! We should go for Vinicius Souza, he made 200+ tackles/interceptions in the Belgian league last season and is available for 5-10m. PSV are the favourites to sign him as a direct replacement for Sangare. Another alternative is Romeo Lavia at Man City. Highly regarded as one of their top talents along with McAtee/Palmer, but Man City seem to be interested in signing a DM so he might be surplus to requirements. Edited 8 June 2022 by Shane 2
Clever Fox Posted 8 June 2022 Posted 8 June 2022 11 minutes ago, CloudFox said: Yeah, us basically becoming the Sevilla of the PL and picking up unproven talents like that to then turn them into first-teamers or turn over a profit would be a dream for me. Yes, We should be speculating 10 million a year on 2 or 3 of these type of players with potential. They should be announced as such so as not to put pressure on them and so as the Fans know exactly the situation with them. With better training and Coaching who knows how good they can get. If even one a season makes the grade then the Club is in profit and we might save 30 million or more. We're likely to recover our modest outlay even if we have to release them.
kingfox Posted 8 June 2022 Posted 8 June 2022 1 hour ago, Stadt said: I suggested signing him almost 3 years ago, I've got an amateur interest in analytics and it was obvious he's destined for the top, he had a great individual season whilst Toulouse were relegated. We focus on the £15m+ bracket too much now, Sangare left Toulouse for £6m in 2020, even barring a PL premium we'd have paid £10m tops. We should be looking at picking up one or two relatively unproven players for £5m or so every summer. We've probably spent that much on Jakupovic's fee + wages over the last 4 years. Great point. I’m quite surprised we didn’t make any James Justin type signings over the past two seasons. Every now and then that’s the standard we need to be looking at, signing a player for 5-10 million who will develop into a starting 11 player within a year or so. Not surprised to see some posters in the past month saying we should dip back into the Championship. 2
Ric Flair Posted 8 June 2022 Posted 8 June 2022 1 minute ago, kingfox said: Great point. I’m quite surprised we didn’t make any James Justin type signings over the past two seasons. Every now and then that’s the standard we need to be looking at, signing a player for 5-10 million who will develop into a starting 11 player within a year or so. Not surprised to see some posters in the past month saying we should dip back into the Championship. I'll tell you why we haven't, we don't leave ourselves now with the flexibility to do so.
sacreblueits442 Posted 8 June 2022 Posted 8 June 2022 1 hour ago, Ric Flair said: Couldn't agree more pal, we really need to look at riskier signings who cost less but are perceived to be more unproven as that's where we've had very good success before anyway. Williot Swedberg or Odin Thiago Holm would be my picks and get them out to Leuven if we can't get WP's off the bat. ...just watched Swedberg on YT!!! Pretty good for an 18 year old, very composed and playing in a very organised and potent team, you are going to have a lot of confidence week in and week out playing for that team. They do tend to stretch the play, their wide men are wide and it opens so much space for runners in his team. Odin Thiago Holms is the man I am looking forward to see develop. He looks a guaranteed top class future player, if only we could sign him up right now. I did have the same feeling for Karamoko Dembele, but that at the moment, did not pan out and I hope Holms will come through. When ever I have seen highlights of Xavi Simmons, he looks like a player overwhelmed by his surroundings, very much a young boy amongst men. Sometimes you feel that football is something that he is good at, but not really his passion. A change in his environment may just be the catalyst that he needs, and I wonder how much it would cost to bring him here. 1
Supergray22 Posted 8 June 2022 Posted 8 June 2022 10 hours ago, Ric Flair said: I'll tell you why we haven't, we don't leave ourselves now with the flexibility to do so. Do you mean we have such a tight target criteria that we will not stray slightly outside even if the hunch seems really attractive. Sounds ridiculous to me.
Vardinio'sCat Posted 8 June 2022 Posted 8 June 2022 Too big for box to box really (again), although with 1 game a week we might be ok.
UHDrive Posted 9 June 2022 Posted 9 June 2022 20 hours ago, CloudFox said: Yeah, us basically becoming the Sevilla of the PL and picking up unproven talents like that to then turn them into first-teamers or turn over a profit would be a dream for me. The Sevilla model is revered be all clubs. IMO though it's not so easily done in the prem leugue with players needing to hit the ground running and the ratio of hit/misses judged way towards the high end.
MarriedaLeicesterGirl Posted 9 June 2022 Posted 9 June 2022 On 08/06/2022 at 12:14, sacreblueits442 said: ...I suppose if you concentrate on the £15m players, at least you know there is quality there, and the only downside is can they make the step up, which is not guaranteed!!! For a club that took a gamble on a £1m non league player and £400th from the French 2nd tier, we need to continue to make bold decisions. It's easier to make those kind of gambles when you are in the Championship, tbf. 3 hours ago, UHDrive said: The Sevilla model is revered be all clubs. IMO though it's not so easily done in the prem leugue with players needing to hit the ground running and the ratio of hit/misses judged way towards the high end. The Sevilla model (and Dortmund, et. al.) is so much more difficult in the Premier League. Spain has a Big 2, Germany and France have a Big 1, even Italy has a Big 1 (sometimes 3, depending on the year). These leagues are top heavy, and the "next biggest teams" can take chances without it hurting in the table as much, because the bottom half of the league is so much weaker. Sevilla has been in Europe every year for nearly a decade, finishing between 4-7 in the league. The Premier League has about four Sevilla-size teams usually battling it out for 7th, many it is harder to guarantee European football for signees, and also harder to take real risks, because those real risks mean you are even more unlikely to get into Europe. 1
Lambert09 Posted 9 June 2022 Posted 9 June 2022 On 08/06/2022 at 07:20, CloudFox said: Yeah, us basically becoming the Sevilla of the PL and picking up unproven talents like that to then turn them into first-teamers or turn over a profit would be a dream for me. I wonder if our latest attempts have put us off of this? Kaputska, Diabate, Benkovic … all under the radar attempts but back fired on us. I think that’s why we’ve moved on to more proven players. 1
filbertway Posted 9 June 2022 Posted 9 June 2022 16 minutes ago, MarriedaLeicesterGirl said: It's easier to make those kind of gambles when you are in the Championship, tbf. The Sevilla model (and Dortmund, et. al.) is so much more difficult in the Premier League. Spain has a Big 2, Germany and France have a Big 1, even Italy has a Big 1 (sometimes 3, depending on the year). These leagues are top heavy, and the "next biggest teams" can take chances without it hurting in the table as much, because the bottom half of the league is so much weaker. Sevilla has been in Europe every year for nearly a decade, finishing between 4-7 in the league. The Premier League has about four Sevilla-size teams usually battling it out for 7th, many it is harder to guarantee European football for signees, and also harder to take real risks, because those real risks mean you are even more unlikely to get into Europe. Not taking those risks mean you'll always be thinking short term and never be in a position to consistently punch above your weight. Also the use of analytics and proper scouting really should really mean that the risk isn't that great. We don't have the best budget in the league, but we've definitely got/had one of best eyes for talent in the league. Everton have spent tonnes more than us and look at the state of them, a budget is a good indicator of success, but with how poorly clubs are run at even the elite level, it's not hard to gain an advantage by being smart. 1
Raw Dykes Posted 9 June 2022 Posted 9 June 2022 2 hours ago, Lambert09 said: I wonder if our latest attempts have put us off of this? Kaputska, Diabate, Benkovic … all under the radar attempts but back fired on us. I think that’s why we’ve moved on to more proven players. I doubt we'd be put off by those particular examples. I believe Kaputska was signed purely off the back off a World Cup/Euros, which isn't something we're in the habit of doing, Diabate was a next-to-no risk punt, and we never really got to see Benko's potential after injuries/personal problems derailed him. I think we probably would still sign cheaper, more obscure players if we felt they were good enough and available at a reasonable price, it's just that those players are rare and hard to find. 1
Phenom Posted 9 June 2022 Posted 9 June 2022 2 hours ago, MarriedaLeicesterGirl said: It's easier to make those kind of gambles when you are in the Championship, tbf. The Sevilla model (and Dortmund, et. al.) is so much more difficult in the Premier League. Spain has a Big 2, Germany and France have a Big 1, even Italy has a Big 1 (sometimes 3, depending on the year). These leagues are top heavy, and the "next biggest teams" can take chances without it hurting in the table as much, because the bottom half of the league is so much weaker. Sevilla has been in Europe every year for nearly a decade, finishing between 4-7 in the league. The Premier League has about four Sevilla-size teams usually battling it out for 7th, many it is harder to guarantee European football for signees, and also harder to take real risks, because those real risks mean you are even more unlikely to get into Europe. One could argue that the PL has a big 2…
MarriedaLeicesterGirl Posted 9 June 2022 Posted 9 June 2022 48 minutes ago, Phenom said: One could argue that the PL has a big 2… Yeah, but I would say the situation with ManU and Chelsea is different than the situation with the "next best" teams in other leagues...and then you add in Arsenal and Tottenham. The fact is, the Premier League at the moment has a "Biggest 2" a "Bigger 2" and a "Still Bigger Than You 2", all of which are bigger than the Sevilla and Dortmund-type clubs in Europe. Even saying that, Liverpool and ManCity are much less secure on their perch than Real and Barca, let alone Bayern and PSG. I actually think this was a huge driver of the Super League proposal: All the other "Super Clubs" of Europe are pretty much guaranteed Champions League every year, barring an absolute disaster, while the English clubs will generally always have two Big Teams "relegated" to Europa League. And because you have 6 big teams taking points off of each other, and a stronger league in general, then "other, lesser" clubs have more of a chance to snap up one of those European spots. Hence the "coefficient places" in the new Champions League format. It allows all the Big 6 in the Champions League, and lessens the incentive to form a breakaway league.
Ric Flair Posted 9 June 2022 Posted 9 June 2022 4 hours ago, Lambert09 said: I wonder if our latest attempts have put us off of this? Kaputska, Diabate, Benkovic … all under the radar attempts but back fired on us. I think that’s why we’ve moved on to more proven players. You may well be right, but we don't even really do it domestically either, there's just a complete slowdown of recruitment across the board compared to most. That's probably OK given how good we've been in the last x amount of years but I do wonder if we're trapped in a cycle now that doesn't really allow for us to speculate to accumulate. Thankfully I think we've plenty of optimism in regards to what's coming through our academy.
ARM1968 Posted 9 June 2022 Posted 9 June 2022 On 08/06/2022 at 12:14, sacreblueits442 said: ...I suppose if you concentrate on the £15m players, at least you know there is quality there, and the only downside is can they make the step up, which is not guaranteed!!! For a club that took a gamble on a £1m non league player and £400th from the French 2nd tier, we need to continue to make bold decisions. How much was Vestitard?
sacreblueits442 Posted 9 June 2022 Posted 9 June 2022 28 minutes ago, ARM1968 said: How much was Vestitard? ...if I recall, it was £15.84m.....they saw us coming!!!
hackneyfox Posted 9 June 2022 Posted 9 June 2022 5 hours ago, Lambert09 said: I wonder if our latest attempts have put us off of this? Kaputska, Diabate, Benkovic … all under the radar attempts but back fired on us. I think that’s why we’ve moved on to more proven players. Was Fofana a proven player? James Justin?
Lambert09 Posted 9 June 2022 Posted 9 June 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, hackneyfox said: Was Fofana a proven player? James Justin? You can’t really say fofana is one of those signings. he was nearly 40m. They are talking about 7m-10m players that don’t already have a big reputation. Soumare for example was unproven but wouldn’t fall in that catergory as he was well known within the game. James justin i’d say would count. But he was hardly cheap for a player who had only played league 1 football. If you get those deals right you really are laughing as the reward is huge. But you tend to end up with more Jahanbaksch’s than Souceks. The other day i read about Ac Milan haggling over A 2m fee for a player. We wouldn’t be seen dead shopping in that market Edited 9 June 2022 by Lambert09
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