Greatest football player ever and why?

[RumbleFox]

These things are a bit silly and I understand some people saying it’s impossible to compare players from different eras because it is but my vote goes for Messi. He’s a phenomenon. Not only is his goal scoring record insane but he’s made more assists than anyone in history. He’s basically the best creative midfielder of all time who also happens to have scored over 700 goals. I understand some people going for Maradona or even Ronaldo and I agree with one poster who said peak Brazilian Ronaldo may have been the best ever but in terms of longevity it has to be Messi for me. Some of his close control is close to impossible. 

[shen]

14 minutes ago, RumbleFox said:

These things are a bit silly and I understand some people saying it’s impossible to compare players from different eras because it is but my vote goes for Messi. He’s a phenomenon. Not only is his goal scoring record insane but he’s made more assists than anyone in history. He’s basically the best creative midfielder of all time who also happens to have scored over 700 goals. I understand some people going for Maradona or even Ronaldo and I agree with one poster who said peak Brazilian Ronaldo may have been the best ever but in terms of longevity it has to be Messi for me. Some of his close control is close to impossible. 

It's standing-on-the-shoulder-of-giants stuff. You can argue that without Maradona you'd have no Messi. All the greats of the past will have inspired generations of aspiring young footballers. They've made the game more popular and commeecially attractive, allowing early scouting, better training facilities and staff, better coaching etc.

 

It's only right and natural that Messi, in my opinion, should be seen as the best ever player today. In 20-30 years, maybe someone will have equalled or eclipsed him. That won't diminish the achievements or qualities of past players though.

Edited 19 December 2022 by shen

[Finnegan]

Echo what others have said in that it's just pointless and nigh impossible comparing between eras.

 

On the one hand, I don't care how much the "oh but pitches were bobbly / footballs were heavier / players could kick you more!" bores want to ramble on about ThE GoOd OlD dAyS, it's a near enough objective fact that the sport is "harder" now. It's played at a greater pace by world class athletes being pumped full of "sports science" and cutting edge fitness training, drilled by defensive coaches that have the benefit of decades of knowledge we've acquired through every generation of the sport. Footballers aren't sat around before kick off necking pints and chain smoking anymore, levels of professionalism are sky high and the "average" footballer is a lot more skilful, tactical and athletic than he was even twenty years ago. Plus scouting is now far more global and talent is being found in all corners of the world to enrich the general pool of players on the world stage. It's much harder to stand out as an individual now than it was in the 50s, 60s or 70s. 

 

On the other hand, the flip side of that is that Pele, Maradona, Cruyff and co' themselves then didn't benefit from world class levels of coaching, fitness and everything else that comes with the modern professional game and maybe they'd have been even better than they were in their eras? So whilst I think it's totally fair to say Messi and Ronaldo have been near enough objectively better than Pele and Ronaldo, you also have to recognise they didn't have the exact same opportunities to flourish. Messi was trained at the best footballing academy that's ever been where as Maradona had to be far more self taught.

 

But @Stinky is right, winning a World Cup is pretty much an irrelevance and I hate all this "Maradona won it alone" bullshit. Nobody wins anything alone, it's a team sport and whilst Maradona never had the benefit of playing with Pep's Barcelona at club level, he also had a much better Argentina "team" than Messi has had at any point until Scaloni took over. Argentina have been plagued for decades with a string of absolutely shit coaches inflicted on them by their FA, loads of internal politics and infighting, squads that hated each other. For almost Messi's entire career they've played like a collection of loose individuals that barely care, usually with an absolutely front-stacked squad of quality attackers backed up by abysmal defences that aren't well drilled or coached and crumble at the slightest pressure. Maradona might not have had a team of megastars when he won the World Cup but he had a squad that were all united, grafted and worked hard for the team. Scaloni's Argentina do that now and thus they've finally won the Copa and the WC. But before that Messi's had to try and carry an absolute clusterfvck nigh alone.

[Nick]

2 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

Echo what others have said in that it's just pointless and nigh impossible comparing between eras.

 

On the one hand, I don't care how much the "oh but pitches were bobbly / footballs were heavier / players could kick you more!" bores want to ramble on about ThE GoOd OlD dAyS, it's a near enough objective fact that the sport is "harder" now. It's played at a greater pace by world class athletes being pumped full of "sports science" and cutting edge fitness training, drilled by defensive coaches that have the benefit of decades of knowledge we've acquired through every generation of the sport. Footballers aren't sat around before kick off necking pints and chain smoking anymore, levels of professionalism are sky high and the "average" footballer is a lot more skilful, tactical and athletic than he was even twenty years ago. Plus scouting is now far more global and talent is being found in all corners of the world to enrich the general pool of players on the world stage. It's much harder to stand out as an individual now than it was in the 50s, 60s or 70s. 

 

On the other hand, the flip side of that is that Pele, Maradona, Cruyff and co' themselves then didn't benefit from world class levels of coaching, fitness and everything else that comes with the modern professional game and maybe they'd have been even better than they were in their eras? So whilst I think it's totally fair to say Messi and Ronaldo have been near enough objectively better than Pele and Ronaldo, you also have to recognise they didn't have the exact same opportunities to flourish. Messi was trained at the best footballing academy that's ever been where as Maradona had to be far more self taught.

 

But @Stinky is right, winning a World Cup is pretty much an irrelevance and I hate all this "Maradona won it alone" bullshit. Nobody wins anything alone, it's a team sport and whilst Maradona never had the benefit of playing with Pep's Barcelona at club level, he also had a much better Argentina "team" than Messi has had at any point until Scaloni took over. Argentina have been plagued for decades with a string of absolutely shit coaches inflicted on them by their FA, loads of internal politics and infighting, squads that hated each other. For almost Messi's entire career they've played like a collection of loose individuals that barely care, usually with an absolutely front-stacked squad of quality attackers backed up by abysmal defences that aren't well drilled or coached and crumble at the slightest pressure. Maradona might not have had a team of megastars when he won the World Cup but he had a squad that were all united, grafted and worked hard for the team. Scaloni's Argentina do that now and thus they've finally won the Copa and the WC. But before that Messi's had to try and carry an absolute clusterfvck nigh alone.

So Messi then?

[Finnegan]

2 minutes ago, Nick said:

So Messi then?

 

Messi is a better footballer than Maradona in the same way the Mercedes AMG One is a better car than the Testarossa.

[Nick]

Just now, Finnegan said:

 

Messi is a better footballer than Maradona in the same way the Mercedes AMG One is a better car than the Testarossa.

Very true.

[SpacedX]

13 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

Footballers aren't sat around before kick off necking pints and chain smoking anymore

Ah, those were the days...

 

[Finnegan]

4 minutes ago, Line-X said:

Ah, those were the days...

 

 

[filbertway]

Everyone knows the correct answer is Mark Davies (Dec 2008 - Jan 2009)

[FoxyPV]

Argentina under Messi would have won a lot more if they hadn't been plagued with strikers who couldn't score.

 

That said, hard to choose between Best, Maradona and Messi.

 

Zidane was a unbelievable to watch like Ronaldinho but just can't put him at the pinnacle 

[Fox92]

1 hour ago, FoxyPV said:

Argentina under Messi would have won a lot more if they hadn't been plagued with strikers who couldn't score.

 

That said, hard to choose between Best, Maradona and Messi.

 

Zidane was a unbelievable to watch like Ronaldinho but just can't put him at the pinnacle 

Zidane is at the pinnacle too. Unbelivable player who won it all and did it at every level.

 

He even picked up player of the tournamount in 2006, still at his age of about 34. To be doing it at that level, at that age, is incredible (similar to Messi and Ronaldo).

[Sampson]

2 hours ago, SkidsFox said:

Kante. We had great players like Vardy and Mahrez, and players who played out of their skin all season. But the reason we won the Premiership was really our cdm. 

The reason we won the Premier League was about 14 different players  all playing out of their skin. We categorically wouldn't have won the PL without Mahrez or Vardy, regardless of Kante still playing. We wouldn't have won the PL without Morgan and Huth being imperious that year or our full-backs being changed given how many goals we conceded before we changed them even with Kante in front of them, nor Ulloa as he scored so many crucial goals or even Nathan Dyer given how key that turnaround vs Villa was for our early season momentum.

 

Kante was a great player for us, but I really hate this growing trend making out he was a one-man team who "won" us the league. He wasn't single handedly scoring goals by the bucketload or winning every header and block once he'd been breached. People talk about how he launched our counter-attacking style, but when you look back at the goals, very few were actually scored that way as counter-attacks, which Kante set about and even the 2nd goal vs ManCity which is the one people always show as the example of it, it's actually Albrighton who initially wins the turnover and Kante mops up Albrighton's initial challenge.

Edited 19 December 2022 by Sampson

[Greg2607]

I'd always edged towards Ronaldo being better than Messi before this tournament.  But the difference for me, was that it was taking 4 or 5 players to stop Messi all tournament.  He is an incredible player and to watch, i'd put him and Maradonna on a pedestal above the others. 

 

Ronaldo, Pele, et al, were all great players, but I think the two Argentinians are the ones who terrified the opposition the most.  Even with half a team trying to stop them, they still found time, space and had the quality to be the difference maker. Invariably, they came out with the ball against that level of attention in a game. 

 

 I only got to see the tail end of Maradonna's career and clearly, he was tainted by his lifestyle at that point, but he was still better than almost anyone else on the planet at that time. 

 

Messi, is what Maradonna would have been had he not been addled on drugs and alcohol. 

[Raj]

People are struggling to come to terms between levels of greatness.

To put Kante in on a discussion of greatest football ever is just plain stupid.

He would come into the amazing player level.

This would be level 2 under the GOAT level.

Glad I've corrected that for you all!

[Col city fan]

I think that saying the state of the pitches back then didn’t matter is a bit silly.

Of course it matters. I’m guessing we’ve all played on quagmires of pitches and how hard it is to play ‘the beautiful game’ when shit is clogging up your boots.

That said, I completely agree that the game is much quicker now than it ever was, players are more athletic and fitter and the media focus on football is greater than it ever was.

It ALL matters really. Which I suppose is why you just can’t compare players from different generations. I think most people will go for the player that had the biggest impact on them when watching them.

 

[Koke]

Messi before the world cup 

And Messi after the world cup .

[fuchsntf]

5 hours ago, FoxyPV said:

Argentina under Messi would have won a lot more if they hadn't been plagued with strikers who couldn't score.

 

That said, hard to choose between Best, Maradona and Messi.

 

Zidane was a unbelievable to watch like Ronaldinho but just can't put him at the pinnacle 

Weller…

[Super_horns]

Saw this on Twitter :

 "Ronaldo is a footballer created by scientists, Messi a footballer created by artists"

A fair summary?

Ronaldo has the power and physical attributes whilst Messi is all skill and flair in terms of his technical play .

Edited 19 December 2022 by Super_horns

[Parafox]

Forget the "hand of God" goal, one of the best and most skilful and most respected (until drugs) players was Maradona.

 

That goal he scored against England where he went through our midfield and defence to slot in was mesmerising and one I'll never forget.

[Lionator]

Generally a very pointless question as there’ll never be a definitive answer. 
 

However, Messi. 

[Sly]

Interesting that no one thinks Ronaldo.

[Jaspa]

5 hours ago, Super_horns said:

Saw this on Twitter :

 "Ronaldo is a footballer created by scientists, Messi a footballer created by artists"

A fair summary?

Ronaldo has the power and physical attributes whilst Messi is all skill and flair in terms of his technical play .

 

Without scientific/medical intervention, Leo Messi would be 4'7"

 

 

[rachhere]

5 hours ago, Super_horns said:

Saw this on Twitter :

 "Ronaldo is a footballer created by scientists, Messi a footballer created by artists"

A fair summary?

Ronaldo has the power and physical attributes whilst Messi is all skill and flair in terms of his technical play .

Sounds like Federer v Nadal

 

Definite vote for Messi from me

[Col city fan]

I watched as the second goal went in against England, literally wondering how on earth he’d just done it..

 

 

[That_Dude]

On 19/12/2022 at 01:25, Dan LCFC said:

Lionel Messi and would've had my vote before the tournament. This just cements a virtually unbeatable legacy.

 

Tell you what though, Kylian Mbappe is going to get nearer than people think I reckon.

He's not the complete package Messi is and his game right now is still very reliant on pace. As it stands he's closer to a Cristiano Ronaldo, who funnily enough is his idol, than a Maradona, Pelé or Messi. Incredible achievements for a 24 years old but he still has a long way to go. 

 

We'll see how he evolves. I reckon that he'll have a big print in World Cups.