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StriderHiryu

Tactics Under Maresca

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1 minute ago, winteriscoming said:

I do think he should of started Nacho instead of Vardy. 

It seemed to be the role they were asked to play. Both dropped deep, were never in the box when we needed them, and we're largely passengers nowhere near play. Our midfield was not clicking today and the Leeds Premier League level press made it difficult to get out of our own half for large periods of the match.

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2 minutes ago, jim5000 said:

It seemed to be the role they were asked to play. Both dropped deep, were never in the box when we needed them, and we're largely passengers nowhere near play. Our midfield was not clicking today and the Leeds Premier League level press made it difficult to get out of our own half for large periods of the match.

Don’t understand why he didn’t put 2 upfront with 10 mins to go. Do something different we hadn’t had a shot on target and their keeper had nothing to do until the save at the end. 

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1 minute ago, winteriscoming said:

Don’t understand why he didn’t put 2 upfront with 10 mins to go. Do something different we hadn’t had a shot on target and their keeper had nothing to do until the save at the end. 

Like for like subs. Can never get my head around it.

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19 minutes ago, winteriscoming said:

Don’t understand why he didn’t put 2 upfront with 10 mins to go. Do something different we hadn’t had a shot on target and their keeper had nothing to do until the save at the end. 

 

Shoving on an extra striker and going longball just isn't Enzo's style. We couldn't get the ball to our striker, so putting on another one and losing a midfielder wouldn't have necessarily helped. On another day Fatawu's shot in the first half goes in, likewise Dewsbury-Hall's header in the dying seconds.

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1 hour ago, UniFox21 said:

Can't say this hasn't been coming. We've looked like this for a few games name, but been lucky against Sunderland and QPR. 

 

We seen to lack creativity and any sort of presence in the box

Wouldn’t say we were particularly that lucky in either of those 2 game overall, I think we deserved to win both

 

If anything we were unlucky to only score 1 against Sunderland

Edited by moore_94
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On 30/10/2023 at 12:53, Number 6 said:

Question for those much smarter than I...both us and Man City utilise an inverted full back with a natural full back moving into a CDM type position. Given we both have 60%ish of the ball, does it not make more sense for a natural midfielder to learn how to drop back into defence?

 

With our own set up I think Ricardo is so technically good than he makes sense over Hamza, but it's a position which seems to be used with a fullback moving up the pitch rather than the other way round.

 

As I finished typing this I just realised Man City have also been using Stones in this position, which seems even more out there as he's not a natural full back or CDM.

I've often wondered this too. 

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21 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

Like for like subs. Can never get my head around it.

I was calling for DAKA & Nacho upfront last 25min or even push Mavadidi down the middle with Nacho then bring on Albrighton , I really hate to say this but Vardy has lost his spark and wasn’t at his usual pain in the Arse against the opposition today needs Maresca to see he can’t play every game !

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45 minutes ago, winteriscoming said:

Don’t understand why he didn’t put 2 upfront with 10 mins to go. Do something different we hadn’t had a shot on target and their keeper had nothing to do until the save at the end. 

Agreed. Too often we didn’t seem to get enough numbers in the box despite getting some decent openings. I’d like to see the opposing winger get on the far post more often too when we attack down the wing. At least mix it up a bit. 

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21 minutes ago, jim5000 said:

 

Shoving on an extra striker and going longball just isn't Enzo's style. We couldn't get the ball to our striker, so putting on another one and losing a midfielder wouldn't have necessarily helped. On another day Fatawu's shot in the first half goes in, likewise Dewsbury-Hall's header in the dying seconds.

Maybe but these things can unsettle the opposition when they've worked you out to a tee.

 

What have you got to lose when you're losing anyway? Better to have tried something different than left wondering

 

Agree I can't see Enzo switching it up though. The games we do end up losing this year will have a very groundhog day feel to it

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6 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

I don't agree with your tactical take. Just because you lose a game, doesn't mean the tactics were wrong. In-game management I do agree with though!

 

Depending on how you like your analysis. First up a video:

 

 

Now for my written analysis, I first want to present the Sofa Score ratings. These ratings are generated by stats, so whilst they don't always pass the eye test, other times they do take subjectivity out of the equation and make player analysis a bit more objective, and it's going to be useful for my critique.

 

7tlA8Ch.png

 

  • The game panned out how I expected it to in the pre-match, Leeds looking to win the ball from us high up the pitch to kill us on the fast transition.
    • This was notable from kick-off where Ampadu and Kamara pushed right up onto our double pivot, with the strikers and wingers going man-for-man on our backline.
    • I said pre-match that if we could exploit Ampadu and Kamara we would win, but I feel like they got the upper hand in this game, especially bullying Casadei, who I will get onto in a second.
  • The first 5 minutes were all Leeds, forcing us into hurried and sloppy passes and turning the ball over. Piroe having an excellent opportunity. The warning signs were there.
  • However, Leicester grew into the game and after riding out the storm started to take control of the game.
    • In the first half Leeds could not deal with our wingers, with both Fatawu and Mavididi looking lethal.
    • Where they did do a good job was to block the runs of our 8's and Vardy, which meant a lot of the time one winger had to cross to the other winger. You can still score goals like this (it's a common Man City pattern of play), but we aren't so good at it yet.
    • Fatawu was one of our best players all game, his rating is deserved. He beat his man throughout, put dangerous balls into the box and had that amazing strike against the crossbar.
    • Justin, Ricardo and Faes did in the end do a decent job of recovery tackles on Summerville, Rutter and James, but these 3 were getting the ball too often during the match.
  • I think we edged the first half overall, but it was a 50/50 game.
  • Where we lost this game was at the start of the second half. Leeds pressed again but double up on Mavididi and Fatawu. Neither winger saw the ball for that first 15 minutes. This meant we lost our outlets and we couldn't get going at all. Casadei turning over the ball a lot. He should been subbed much earlier.
  • The game changed after they scored, but we need to understand it's because Leeds changed their plan. After deservedly getting the goal after a superb start to the second half, they did what we did to Southampton and encouraged us onto them to hit us on the break.
  • Maresca made a great and important substitution, Choudhury for Casadei, but Ricardo pushed up to be the second 8. Choudhury did well with ball recoveries, and Ricardo was way more effective at keeping the ball moving. Our wingers started to see the ball again and we started to get control of the game.
  • That said other than the KDH chance right at the end, we didn't really test Meslier, and that's got to be the biggest disappointment. I think it shows that with our current injuries, we can't change the game too much with subs. Iheanacho was worse than Vardy IMO, and we didn't have Akgun or Ndidi to use. Maybe McAteer could have come on, but both wingers played well, so other than coming on as an 8, I don't see how much of a difference that would make.

 

I am disappointed with the result, but I think the performance was OK. Unlike the Sunderland game, we did manage to get control of the game despite having a lethal press against us, and weren't just pumping it long. Leeds goal came from a corner, not because of a fast transition, although they got the corner from a transition. Casadei was poor, but I'm not going to dig him out. We did say missing Ndidi could be an issue in this one, and so it turned out to be. Praet is also injured who might have been playing there too.

 

Before the game I said that all of the teams in the division, the one best suited to beat us was Leeds, and tonight proved why. Their style is the best counter against us, Liverpool have beaten us twice playing this way, Sunderland really made it tough for us and Leeds beat us tonight. But here's the thing, if you want to get good enough to beat teams playing this way, you have to practice playing that way for a while against such teams first. It's understandable that sometimes it will go wrong over 46 games and it's up to the team and manager to learn from this setback.

 

One thing you could say is that if the opposition is coming at you like this from minute one, why not go long a little bit just to settle into the game? This I do agree with to an extent. We scored after 30 seconds against Southampton by doing what Leeds did to us. At the start of the game when everyone is cold, it can be good to take your time a bit and get everyone a few touches before settling into your controlled possession. But somehow I don't think this will ever be the Enzo way!

 

Overall you have to say well played to Leeds and Daniel Farke. He was brave with his tactics and made key adjustments at halftime and then after going one-up. He also made good subs to keep his team fresh and keep us from scoring. We were pretty soundly beaten, but 13 wins and 2 losses... overall it's going well. I don't think many other teams can play this way. Ipswich might be a better team than Leeds (or even us!), but they don't play such a German style press as Leeds do. I for one look forward to the return fixture!

As you suggest, I look forward to beating them on the return fixture when we have key players back from injury and more options off the bench.

 

I understood and appreciated our strategy with the ball. However, one thing I did not understand with our tactics tonight was why we didn't press them aggressively. We only seemed to.press with 3 or 4 players from the front and the others didn't follow which appeared to be a pre-planned strategy.

 

I appreciate Leers would be especially dangerous if they played through our full press but their Goalkeeper and defence often make mistakes when under pressure and we didn't exploit this (especially considering we were playing at home).

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7 minutes ago, Kierzz said:

As you suggest, I look forward to beating them on the return fixture when we have key players back from injury and more options off the bench.

 

I understood and appreciated our strategy with the ball. However, one thing I did not understand with our tactics tonight was why we didn't press them aggressively. We only seemed to.press with 3 or 4 players from the front and the others didn't follow which appeared to be a pre-planned strategy.

 

I appreciate Leers would be especially dangerous if they played through our full press but their Goalkeeper and defence often make mistakes when under pressure and we didn't exploit this (especially considering we were playing at home).

I suspect because we didn't want to push so many players forwards that there were even more gaps in behind. Plus these players have played almost all of the games recently and were probably quite leggy. Our players need a rest, hopefully we can bounce back against Boro, then there's another break. 

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49 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

One thing you could say is that if the opposition is coming at you like this from minute one, why not go long a little bit just to settle into the game?

I would have loved to see that in game tactical switch from Enzo tonight, as I think it would have completely baffled Leeds and caught them off guard.


They were so well prepped and organised for that high press. At times, they had so many players pushed forward deep into our half to press our back line, a ball over the top or down the channels could have really opened them up and also made them have to rethink their own game plan with the aggressive press which we struggled with.

 

Credit where it’s due though, they defended very well. Hopefully, big lessons learned from tonight. 

 

 

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my mind always goes back to a comment maresca made early on. When things are going good we play this way, when things go bad we play this way. 

 

I just worry that he will stick to a system and a shape no matter what. You can’t always be the man city in the match, sometimes we will need to adapt and I really really hope that maresca will be willing to shuffle the deck when we need different solutions. 

 

Kompany is showing that if you don’t adapt you can struggle.  Personally, watching this game i felt that from the first 5 minutes you could tell our possession at the back was going to cause us trouble due to the way they were pressing. We got away with a few moments and I was hoping we might adjust to something that perhaps nullified their press but we stuck at it. 

 

It’s worked in the past so i will give enzo the benefit. But something didn’t click today, whether that was poor individual performances or the tactics im not sure. But i’ll definitely be keeping a keen eye on our tactics and style against the tougher sides. 

 

Edited by Lambert09
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4 hours ago, winteriscoming said:

I do think he should of started Nacho instead of Vardy. 

Just the opposite. Leeds pressing high and being progressive for the first hour should have suited Vardy. Instead he started to drop deep and come looking for the ball Nacho-style. Left us with no-one in the middle to target when the wingers had the ball. Combined with KDH being pretty tightly marked we had nothing through the middle at all.

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5 hours ago, moore_94 said:

Wouldn’t say we were particularly that lucky in either of those 2 game overall, I think we deserved to win both

 

If anything we were unlucky to only score 1 against Sunderland

Sunderland was a strange one. We definitely had the chances (Casadei x2 + Nacho) to have got 4. They had some good half chances, nothing particularly clear cut. 
 

But I agree with the view on the performance overall not being what it was. It felt we lost any control of the game particularly in the second half and ultimately, controlling game is Enzo’s thing. We also started to look leggy in that game which carried on into QPR and last night. 
 

Probably just need this upcoming break and a couple of numbers back from injury. Navigate through Decembers heavy fixture list and freshen things up in January.

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5 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

I don't agree with your tactical take. Just because you lose a game, doesn't mean the tactics were wrong. In-game management I do agree with though!

 

Depending on how you like your analysis. First up a video:

 

 

Now for my written analysis, I first want to present the Sofa Score ratings. These ratings are generated by stats, so whilst they don't always pass the eye test, other times they do take subjectivity out of the equation and make player analysis a bit more objective, and it's going to be useful for my critique.

 

7tlA8Ch.png

 

  • The game panned out how I expected it to in the pre-match, Leeds looking to win the ball from us high up the pitch to kill us on the fast transition.
    • This was notable from kick-off where Ampadu and Kamara pushed right up onto our double pivot, with the strikers and wingers going man-for-man on our backline.
    • I said pre-match that if we could exploit Ampadu and Kamara we would win, but I feel like they got the upper hand in this game, especially bullying Casadei, who I will get onto in a second. If football is a war, it's the midfield battle where it's won and lost, and I feel those two won the battle overall.
  • The first 5 minutes were all Leeds, forcing us into hurried and sloppy passes and turning the ball over. Piroe having an excellent opportunity. The warning signs were there.
  • However, Leicester grew into the game and after riding out the storm started to take control of the game.
    • In the first half Leeds could not deal with our wingers, with both Fatawu and Mavididi looking lethal.
    • Where they did do a good job was to block the runs of our 8's and Vardy, which meant a lot of the time one winger had to cross to the other winger. You can still score goals like this (it's a common Man City pattern of play), but we aren't so good at it yet.
    • Fatawu was one of our best players all game, his rating is deserved. He beat his man throughout, put dangerous balls into the box and had that amazing strike against the crossbar.
    • Justin, Ricardo and Faes did in the end do a decent job of recovery tackles on Summerville, Rutter and James, but these 3 were getting the ball too often during the match.
  • I think we edged the first half overall, but it was a 50/50 game.
    • Leeds still looked really threatening on the transition, but luckily our defenders all made good recovery runs when needed.
    • Faes was the one that looked like he might make a mistake, but got away with it.
  • Where we lost this game was at the start of the second half. Leeds pressed again but doubled up on Mavididi and Fatawu. Neither winger saw the ball for that first 15 minutes. This meant we lost our outlets, and we couldn't get going at all. Casadei turning over the ball a lot. He should have been subbed much earlier.
  • The game changed after they scored, but we need to understand it's because Leeds changed their plan. After deservedly getting the goal after a superb start to the second half, they did what we did to Southampton and encouraged us onto them to hit us on the break.
  • Maresca made a great and important substitution, Choudhury for Casadei, but Ricardo pushed up to be the second 8. Choudhury did well with ball recoveries, and Ricardo was way more effective at keeping the ball moving. Our wingers started to see the ball again, and we started to get control of the game.
  • That said, other than the KDH chance right at the end, we didn't really test Meslier, and that's got to be the biggest disappointment. I think it shows that with our current injuries, we can't change the game too much with subs. Iheanacho was worse than Vardy IMO, and we didn't have Akgun or Ndidi to use. Maybe McAteer could have come on, but both wingers played well, so other than coming on as an 8, I don't see how much of a difference that would make.
    • That said, Farke made 5 subs and we only made two. And their energy helped them run that high press throughout most of the game.

 

I am disappointed with the result, but I think the performance was OK. Unlike the Sunderland game, we did manage to get control of the game despite having a lethal press against us, and weren't just pumping it long. Leeds' goal came from a corner, not because of a fast transition, although they got the corner from a transition. Casadei was poor, but I'm not going to dig him out. We did say missing Ndidi could be an issue in this one, and so it turned out to be. Praet is also injured, who might have been playing there too.

 

Before the game I said that of all of the teams in the division, the one best suited to beat us was Leeds, and tonight proved why. Their style is the best counter against us, Liverpool have beaten us twice playing this way, Sunderland really made it tough for us and Leeds beat us tonight. But here's the thing, if you want to get good enough to beat teams playing this way, you have to practice playing that way for a while against such teams first. It's understandable that sometimes it will go wrong over 46 games, and it's up to the team and manager to learn from this setback.

 

One thing you could say is that if the opposition is coming at you like this from minute one, why not go long a little bit just to settle into the game? This I do agree with to an extent. We scored after 30 seconds against Southampton by doing what Leeds did to us. At the start of the game, when everyone is cold, it can be good to take your time a bit and get everyone a few touches before settling into your controlled possession. But somehow I don't think this will ever be the Enzo way!

 

Overall you have to say well played to Leeds and Daniel Farke. He was brave with his tactics and made key adjustments at halftime and then after going one-up. He also made good subs to keep his team fresh and keep us from scoring. We were pretty soundly beaten, but 13 wins and 2 losses... overall it's going well. I don't think many other teams can play this way. Ipswich might be a better team than Leeds (or even us!), but they don't play such a German style press as Leeds do. I for one look forward to the return fixture!

 

 

Great analysis, that was a team absolutely nailing their game plan with strengths which could exploit us, yet we only lost by a goal in a tight game. The system will see us up comfortably as no other team can come at us like that. No need to panic. 

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I’m not going to jump also Enzo. He has his methods and that’s that. 
 

It’s some of the players I’m not having. It’s quite remarkable we’ve had such a good start, because I think Leeds are a better team than us, yet they’ve been largely inconsistent. 
 

I think, to be honest this league is so poor that there’s three teams that realistically will challenge for promotion. Us, Leeds and it’s looking like Ipswich too. We’ve had an impeccable start, but some of our rivals will surely start to pick up form. Going forward I can’t see Leeds dropping many points. Ipswich will be interesting once they start to get injuries and hit a dodgy patch. But, I’m intrigued to see what happens next with us, because Boro away could well be a horrible game to have just after this. Losing two in a row could have major psychological implementations on the team.

 

Theres a few things that aren’t working;

 

Defensively we’re actually good, but we can still concede poor goals, and I think it comes to a lack of leadership, however, I wouldn’t put Coady anywhere near that team, what I’ve seen of him so far I’ve been far from impressed.

 

Ricardo individually looks a class above, obviously, but he’s wasted in CM. This league wouldn’t be able to cope with his marauding runs ups and down the flanks. We’ve got both him and Justin who are probably the best full

backs in the league, and neither are being used this way.
 

The wingers are alright, both can produce the sublime to the ridiculous, but you get effort even if there on occasion is a lack of finesse. 
 

KDH has been dreadful, sorry but he has, he can’t play a hight 8, he’s too clumsy and careless in possession, and his passing is all over the place. 
 

N’didi has been playing well but again he isn’t a high 8, he lacks the creativity needed to play that role. 
 

This tactic is amazing if you have the personnel to carry it out. Had we had a more back to basics approach to the game we might have shithoused a win, however, against this league less shit teams we won’t be able to do that, especially now they’re getting into a rhythm. 
 

The next game is critical, we lose and it could start a bit of a slide in form. If not, and we win, which we should, then I think it will end up being us and Leeds who will eventually run away with it. I expect Ipswich to drop off as they don’t have the depth to maintain this form. I just hope we can gather enough points to keep Leeds at arms length, because they are probably the best team in the league on paper, and once they get going will take some stopping. 
 

Im really angry we lost that game, out of all the games I wanted to win that one, it casts a bit of doubt now….. all about how we react now. It’s okay beating the leagues crap, but when you’re coming up against one of the better teams and can’t even register a shot on goal until the final ten minutes, it’s worrying….. there’s still question marks over a potential fragile mentality, and that surfaced a little yesterday.

 

Bit of a back to basics needed this week, in training. 

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This is the only point that annoys me about Enzo. Where he states along the lines of:   "Aslong as you play my way tactically, that's all that matters".   

 

This is dangerous as sometimes the players need to fight and show their desire for the club and pride in themselves.

Otherwise they could take advantage of this and just ensure there doing this alone and are getting paid

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I couldn’t understand why Fatawu second half didn’t take the full back on instead it was cutting inside and either passing it sideways or long ball over to Mavididi. I could be completely wrong but it’s as if he’d been told to do that. Strange tactics when the better attacking option is to try and beat the fb. 

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