The Enzo Thread

[Dahnsouff]

Not sure why people don`t just come out and say I hate the style of football and I don't want to watch it  but instead insist on trumping up some fantasy pseudo justification.

Evidence informs us he has been successful but if you don't like it regardless, so be it, its a perfectly valid opinion  

Edited 8 May by Dahnsouff

[Chelmofox]

4 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

You know we have the best defence in the Championship right? Have won the most games, and scored the second most goals. (These being the only meaningful metrics we currently have)

This isn`t fan boy nonsense, these are facts and the only relevant data we have for Enzo and his ability to setup a defence or attack, so  

Apparently that doesn't matter. Also, look at our defensive stats before Enzo responded to the fans criticism and started playing a higher line - these were better than where we ended up.

 

The reality is, that no matter what, it's going to be different because teams are not going to low block us and gift us 70% possession, so this point about 'passing it around until the opposition nicks it' is very unlikely to happen. Or it might, but not with us in a high line position like against Blackburn where Vesty was half way in the Blackburn half. I don't know, because i've not seen us setup frequently in the Prem yet. Nobody knows - surely. Maybe we beat Liverpool 1-0 with them playing a low block and get 75% possession, and we all come on here complaining how boring life is.

 

Well some people clearly do know. Yup - lets aspire for Allardyce.

[ALC Fox]

The key is are we going to be able to improve on the squad. If he gets assurances that are reneged upon I could envision a late departure in the manner of Lopetegui at Wolves. If we can't back him that much, we'll have to be up front so he can make his mind up so  either get a new manager in as early as possible or at least know if Maresca wants to make a go of it.

 

In an ideal world, he stays and we back him. He's earned the right and I'm sure we'd all like to see if Enzoball can cut it at the Premier League with the types of players he wants playing the system. It won't be an overhaul but I think if the finances work out we can bring in a few to supplement some of the ballers we have.

 

If he can keep us up, playing some decent stuff, he'll be in much demand next summer.

[Dahnsouff]

Just now, Chelmofox said:

Apparently that doesn't matter. Also, look at our defensive stats before Enzo responded to the fans criticism and started playing a higher line - these were better than where we ended up.

 

The reality is, that no matter what, it's going to be different because teams are not going to low block us and gift us 70% possession, so this point about 'passing it around until the opposition nicks it' is very unlikely to happen. Or it might, but not with us in a high line position like against Blackburn where Vesty was half way in the Blackburn half. I don't know, because i've not seen us setup frequently in the Prem yet. Nobody knows - surely. Maybe we beat Liverpool 1-0 with them playing a low block and get 75% possession, and we all come on here complaining how boring life is.

 

Well some people clearly do know. Yup - lets aspire for Allardyce.

As I have always suspected, some people want to see the exact same football they had at personal high points in their life. Understandable, but impossible.

[Uncle Monty]

51 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Not sure why people don`t just come out and say I hate the style of football and I don't want to watch it  but instead insist of trumping up some fantasy pseudo justification.

Evidence informs us he has been successful but if you don't like it regardless, so be it, its a perfectly valid opinion  

I've said on a few posts that I hate this style of play and will be happy when it goes out of fashion.

 

I've also said I really want Enzo to do well but criticized him when it hasn't.

 

Ultimately he achieved the goal of promotion and was successful last season, you can't argue with that.

 

It's still ok to say the style of play is turgid to watch. Like actually painful to watch at times.

[indierich06]

To be clear, I do rate Enzo and I do actually enjoy the football when we play it well - it's clear we need reinforcements this season to meet our potential. But I would just like a little more humility from Maresca (and his arselicker, Balague) about his shortcomings. It's fine - no-one expects you to be absolutely perfect in your first proper job, there's learnings to take from this season, but the way he reacts to criticism suggests he's quite thin-skinned and that he doesn't seem to think there's any need for him to improve - and that's worrying. The fact that he's pointing to his record and trying to almost imply how lucky we are to have him, and that we should be giving him whatever he wants after that stinking run at the end of the season - that doesn't sit too well with me.

 

I feel like he would get a lot more goodwill if he came out and said 'look, it was a good season - there was a lot to be happy about, and we met our ultimate objective - but there was a lot to learn from too - for the players, for the club, and for myself - and we need to go into the new season with everyone on the same page, and with everyone pulling together to ensure we give ourselves the best chance of success.'

 

It's all way too adversarial at the minute. 

[Chelmofox]

8 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

As I have always suspected, some people want to see the exact same football they had at personal high points in their life. Understandable, but impossible.

Yes, although memory is a funny thing and has a habit of filtering out the boring bits. Saying that, I don't ever remember looking back at much big Sam ever did with much fondness.

 

I presume this thread will go round and round in circles until there is some sort of club announcement on the future (or maybe they do nothing if Enzo is happy). Until we have made signings and we see how we setup in the Prem after a few games (excluding top 8 opposition), everyone is making it up.

[trooky]

1 hour ago, Bazly said:

Enzo isn't good enough to keep a poor side in the EPL. That takes a certain type on manager who can firm up defence and scratch out a win in enough games, usually ugly, to survive. That is your former Allardyce, presently Sean Dyche kind of manager. He has already shown he is a petulant emotional type, ready to start lobbing teddy bears if the mood takes him. There is no plan B for all eventualities, its the Rodgers managerial book of Plan A with a few personnel changes during the game to pursue Plan A with fresh faces. Relegation is pretty much a certainty with Enzo style which in the EPL will be pass the ball around until the opposition nicks it. 

I'd rather get the likes of Moyes in to firm up the defensive 9 that will be needed next season.

Why settle for 2nd best, let's get the original and go from the sublime to the ridiculous and appoint Sam Allardyce.🤔😂

[Finnegan]

1 hour ago, Chelmofox said:

Apparently that doesn't matter. Also, look at our defensive stats before Enzo responded to the fans criticism and started playing a higher line - these were better than where we ended up.

 

The reality is, that no matter what, it's going to be different because teams are not going to low block us and gift us 70% possession, so this point about 'passing it around until the opposition nicks it' is very unlikely to happen. Or it might, but not with us in a high line position like against Blackburn where Vesty was half way in the Blackburn half. I don't know, because i've not seen us setup frequently in the Prem yet. Nobody knows - surely. Maybe we beat Liverpool 1-0 with them playing a low block and get 75% possession, and we all come on here complaining how boring life is.

 

Well some people clearly do know. Yup - lets aspire for Allardyce.

 

I think people will actually enjoy Enzoball next year if he's still here. A lot of it will depend who we have at centre back and how well they hold up to the pace of the Premier League.

 

But generally speaking, I don't think people quite have it in their heads still that Enzoball involves a lot of intense pressing and counter attacking. We've scored goals this year that were the most rapid we've gone from back to front since we won the Premier League. We also close teams down and win the ball back a LOT. Certainly with a lot more intensity than we ever did under Rodgers.

 

You're going to see a lot, lot more of that next season. Just because Maresca's preference is to have control of the game as much as possible, that doesn't mean we'll always be able to or that teams are going to play along.

 

The best way to be a successful side is to have both in your locker, to be able to attack from anywhere on the pitch, whether or not that's your own six yard box or whether or not it's camping outside the opposition area because they refuse to come out of their low block. Enzo's got the team doing both which is great news.

 

You coach a team ONLY to play devastating counter attacks and you end up like David Moyes or Roy Hogdson, completely unable to beat any team in the league with an organised defence that are prepared for your one trick pony. That's why Vichai and Top wanted us to change our philosophy in the first place because smash and grabbing your way to a title only really happens once.

 

[sm1]

So if we are to believe the Balague article, we should be glad that Enzo chose us, because he had offers from PL clubs and now has lots of offers from top European clubs. These were the vibes that Rodgers gave out, of being too good for us. If this is how Enzo feels, I think he'll be off, the only stumbling block will be the compo we demand.

[BenTheFox]

I said a few weeks ago that I don't think he'll be our manager next season regardless of whether we are promoted or not. I'd still be surprised if he is. 

[FoxinNotts]

I'd be quite happy for him to leave tbh. 

Great that he got us promoted and all that.

I genuinely think his style of play with the (lack of) quality that we will have, will get battered in the premier league. It's the same style as Man City but without the talent to execute it correctly!

Get a manager that can battle for the points. 

Enzo was perfect for last season in the Championship

Someone else needs to be perfect to survive back in the premier league with a points deduction, and the level of quality of squad we will have.

 

 

[Iran]

 

[Facecloth]

26 minutes ago, Iran said:

 

Is this news. I'm sure the meeting is standard anyway and the rumours have been around for weeks. But present it like this and it makes it sound like something is happening.

[MonkeyTennis?]

I'm not sure what he has to gain by staying with us in terms of reputation TBH. He has got us up, and has established himself as an exciting new manager, slightly away from the greater scrutiny of the Premier League. Job done. Next season anything he achieves on the pitch is likely to be undermined and sidelined by the FFP carnival off the pitch, and the finances mean he's actually going to have fewer players to work with who fit his system. He's got the perfect excuse to leave, and it's the perfect time. 

 

(I imagine he would go to Europe, but crazy as it sounds, I could sort-of see him at Man United.)

[Spudulike]

57 minutes ago, Iran said:

 

Which other Premier League clubs would consider him that have a higher status than us? Certainly not the cash rich 6-8 clubs. Can't see him going abroad as I believe his family is settled in England c/w the level of Euro clubs that would want him can't compete financially (especially if the compensation figure is correct).

[TheGoldenGod]

27 minutes ago, MonkeyTennis? said:

(I imagine he would go to Europe, but crazy as it sounds, I could sort-of see him at Man United.)

They'd never go for someone this early in his managerial career nor someone who won a treble with their local rivals. In my opinion, he'd be better off staying with us and plying his trade rather than jumping into a club like Sevilla which to be fair he could possibly go to even if it goes badly next season. They aren't exactly massive (finished mid table in La Liga).

Edited 8 May by TheGoldenGod

[5waller5]

3 hours ago, indierich06 said:

To be clear, I do rate Enzo and I do actually enjoy the football when we play it well - it's clear we need reinforcements this season to meet our potential. But I would just like a little more humility from Maresca (and his arselicker, Balague) about his shortcomings. It's fine - no-one expects you to be absolutely perfect in your first proper job, there's learnings to take from this season, but the way he reacts to criticism suggests he's quite thin-skinned and that he doesn't seem to think there's any need for him to improve - and that's worrying. The fact that he's pointing to his record and trying to almost imply how lucky we are to have him, and that we should be giving him whatever he wants after that stinking run at the end of the season - that doesn't sit too well with me.

 

I feel like he would get a lot more goodwill if he came out and said 'look, it was a good season - there was a lot to be happy about, and we met our ultimate objective - but there was a lot to learn from too - for the players, for the club, and for myself - and we need to go into the new season with everyone on the same page, and with everyone pulling together to ensure we give ourselves the best chance of success.'

 

It's all way too adversarial at the minute. 

Totally agree. Do you think that English as his second language means he’s not able to give the nuanced answers a native speaker would though? 
 

I’m sure that sometimes his reply is constrained by the breadth of his vocabulary (and don’t get me wrong his English is brilliant, I’m not being critical, just seeking to understand)

[whoareyaaa]

2 hours ago, FoxinNotts said:

I'd be quite happy for him to leave tbh. 

Great that he got us promoted and all that.

I genuinely think his style of play with the (lack of) quality that we will have, will get battered in the premier league. It's the same style as Man City but without the talent to execute it correctly!

Get a manager that can battle for the points. 

Enzo was perfect for last season in the Championship

Someone else needs to be perfect to survive back in the premier league with a points deduction, and the level of quality of squad we will have.

 

 

I think we should go for Chris Wilder

[trooky]

2 hours ago, Iran said:

 

If Enzo stays, then we can at least expect a decent summer transfer window, otherwise if he's leaving then it's going to be a shit summer.

[David Hankey]

18 hours ago, winteriscoming said:

I don’t believe it but his stock would rise considerably if he did well at Ajax or Sevilla. Those jobs will be easier than trying to keep us up. He wouldn’t want a relegation on his cv much what is likely to happen to Kompany. 

Perhaps it's the optimism in me but I certainly think we can do better than Burnley.

 

As for Ajax or Sevilla, there's no guarantee Maresca would do well at either Club then where would he be?

[Grebfromgrebland]

4 hours ago, FoxinNotts said:

I'd be quite happy for him to leave tbh. 

Great that he got us promoted and all that.

I genuinely think his style of play with the (lack of) quality that we will have, will get battered in the premier league. It's the same style as Man City but without the talent to execute it correctly!

Get a manager that can battle for the points. 

Enzo was perfect for last season in the Championship

Someone else needs to be perfect to survive back in the premier league with a points deduction, and the level of quality of squad we will have.

 

 

That's what they said about Ranieri 

[whoareyaaa]

19 hours ago, winteriscoming said:

I don’t believe it but his stock would rise considerably if he did well at Ajax or Sevilla. Those jobs will be easier than trying to keep us up. He wouldn’t want a relegation on his cv much what is likely to happen to Kompany. 

But we should have got promoted in the eyes of some because we had the best squad in the Championship surely that is then able to compete in the Prem 

[when_you're_smiling]

2 minutes ago, David Hankey said:

Perhaps it's the optimism in me but I certainly think we can do better than Burnley.

 

As for Ajax or Sevilla, there's no guarantee Maresca would do well at either Club then where would he be?

To be fair, Ajax can’t get much worse than they’ve done this season. Would be a very comfortable job for someone still largely unknown looking to boost their reputation on the European stage and at a club historically renowned for passing football.

 

I can understand why some might say they don’t care whether he goes or not, but also do think people are underestimating how a new manager would likely make us even less attractive to prospective players than we already are as a newly promoted side with financial issues likely to start on minus points.

[Analysethis]

8 hours ago, Hammo said:

You make some very sound points in his defence… but your first and last paragraphs are risible.

 

Wherever Maresca plies his trade, he is going to be subject to criticism from some of the fan base because of his tactical inflexibility and often tedious possession-based strategy. It ain’t for everyone and he should know this.

 

That has nothing to do with fans being ‘entitled’ (yawn).

 

And if he is so touchy that he can’t handle any criticism, even constructive criticism, and uses that as a pretext for wanting to leave, then I would see that as a major character flaw on his part that will hinder him in his future career. You need thick skin to be a successful manager. 

If you win the league but three quarters of the fan base want you out, largely because the entitled (Yawn but its true) were counting how many points we would win by, hopeful of 110+ due to their delusion, then it undermines all his achievements and he should be thinking "WTF do they expect?"

 

The football wasn't scintillating at times but in fairness he didn't really have the tools. Ndidi playing in an offensive position, new wingers, attempts at a new system with an inverted full back,his strikers misfiring so forced to play Vards more than I am sure he planned to and relying on players like Praet, Vestegard, Hamza who looked finished at our club. I think he has done an amazing job when you forget that real football isnt a game of Football Manager.but he has to deal with real life situations. For me he did great and we should be delighted we have him and I for one will be happy to see how his tactical and coaching skills kick in if he is backed and has "his" team.

 

I find it unreal really that we are not praising the bloke but being a bit "typical" Leicester of criticizing a winner, because we are not happy with the win.I heard it back in the day with a bit of hoofball that was about in the Martin O`Neil days but he was a winner as well. I seem to remember "we" were on the verge of burying him before he took us up and to success via the play-offs, and we did something similar with Rodgers by talking down his achievements despite him winning our first and only FA Cup and finishing 5th in the league. Once again, the entitled turned on him when we fell away from a Champions League spot then I seem to remember and that was before our run that led to relegation (BTW if he stayed I still think we stayed up but fan pressure put paid to that)

 

If only people had a sense of perspective that we are not some major club, and backed the team vocally at home to spur us on more without having this moany entitled ways that somehow has spread around our club since we won the Prem.