Notts F & Everton admit to breaking rules and face points deduction

[The Doctor]

1 hour ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

No it didn’t though  , they had to offload accordingly last season to comply which they did. They didn’t break any regulations when we were against them, I’m not determined to give them leeway I don’t even like Everton. I just don’t buy into this woe is us crap victim mentality way of thinking. Had they been found guilty of ffp wrong doing last season then I would completely be on your side they’d have actively cheated against us , but they didn’t. The only team that can have this type of wrong done mentality is Burnley as it appears they’ve had stayed up the season Everton should’ve retroactively faced punishment 

Yes it did. During the three year period they breached the rules, they signed a bunch of players who played a key role in them staying up. You pointed out that they were being investigated last season but appealed so the punishment is now, so effectively they also deferred the punishment to a more convenient time. 

[Qwerty]

I started out feeling really glad that Everton had been punished, but now I’m just frustrated that we didn’t do the same.  If we’d cheated, bought players, broken FFP rules and had a 10 point deduction, we’d still be in the PL and be quite comfortable there too, in the same way Everton will be in a few weeks.   I had a look at an Everton fan forum and they’re not worried at all.  

[smudger63]

10 hours ago, Fox1970 said:

Well, not really, as there was no penalty at that point for going into administration.

There were many clubs around that time who experienced admin, and yet LCFC are the ones who seem to kop it, even from our own supporters at times

Plus if we had been given a 10 point penalty that season,  we would still have gone up. 

Also, we had done a deal with all our creditors that would have meant staying out of administration, apart from one, Eric Hall the agent of Dennis Wise, who wouldn't agree, and threatened to serve a winding up order on us, which pretty much forced our hand in going into administration.

The same could not be said of Ipswich, who went into administration a few months later, and also didn't get a point deduction, but somehow that always seems to be forgotten.

[Raj]

Has anyone mentioned they should have had this deducted last season???!

[smudger63]

1 minute ago, Qwerty said:

I started out feeling really glad that Everton had been punished, but now I’m just frustrated that we didn’t do the same.  If we’d cheated, bought players, broken FFP rules and had a 10 point deduction, we’d still be in the PL and be quite comfortable there too, in the same way Everton will be in a few weeks.   I had a look at an Everton fan forum and they’re not worried at all.  

Which is the point many in the media seem to be ignoring. 

They knew well before last season started they were in the mire, and should have sold some of their better players in order to try and comply with ffp.

They chose not too, we chose to abide by the ffp rules, and so never had the refresh of players that almost certainly would have seen us finish above Everton, and stay up.

Bizarrely to me, there almost seems to be some sympathy within the media towards Everton, when the reality is, the fact they've been deducted the points this season, with Sheff Utd, Luton, Burnley and Bournemouth,  probably being the worst in the history of the premier league, apart from Dismal Derby, meaning there isn't a cat in halls chance that they go down.

They could have given them a 15 point deduction and they wouldn't have gone down.

Everton, have basically got away with it.

 

[sacreblueits442]

2 hours ago, The Doctor said:

the squad they assembled through breaching the PSR didn't all leave before the start of last season. Their cheating gave them a squad that was capable of staying up at our expense last season. Why people are so determined to give them leeway absolutely baffles me

...anything after the 21/22 season would surely  be "fruit from the poisonous tree..."!!!

[Mythyaar]

1 hour ago, Miella27 said:

I'd imagine you are trolling, either that or you have no idea about the FA/league rules at each of these periods you refer to. 

I'm merely pointing out that we've had our scrapes in the past, the collateral damage of which was arguably far worse than that perpetrated by Everton (certainly with the administration).

[urban.spaceman]

8 hours ago, Gamble92 said:

I was talking to a Burnley fan a couple of years ago who randomly said we cheated when we went up and I assumed he meant back in 2002 but he was on about the last promotion. Strange how much other fans hold these grudges. For a team supposedly with no rivals we seen to have a lot of haters. 

It's amazing to me how they can hold a grudge for 20 years despite being completely and totally factually incorrect.

[Wymsey]

Given Everton's fortune and getting away with things over the years, until now, can see someone high up being good friends with someone from the FA and/or Premier League etc..

[Chelmofox]

1 hour ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

I think one of the reasons we fell apart was that we didn't have funds to strengthen and the players and manager threw their toys out of the pram.

 

Remember Brendan was promised funds then at the last minute denied them.

Brendan started throwing toys out of the pram straight after the forest fa cup game. He wanted a rebuild project, told the world he was going to get it, but it never materialised. At the time we were still in Europe. Should have been removed long before he made it toxic. 

[Spudulike]

1 hour ago, Qwerty said:

I started out feeling really glad that Everton had been punished, but now I’m just frustrated that we didn’t do the same.  If we’d cheated, bought players, broken FFP rules and had a 10 point deduction, we’d still be in the PL and be quite comfortable there too, in the same way Everton will be in a few weeks.   I had a look at an Everton fan forum and they’re not worried at all.  

Everton fans are full of it. They reckon they've picked on the wrong club. It's just not fair. 

[The Horse's Mouth]

1 hour ago, The Doctor said:

Yes it did. During the three year period they breached the rules, they signed a bunch of players who played a key role in them staying up. You pointed out that they were being investigated last season but appealed so the punishment is now, so effectively they also deferred the punishment to a more convenient time. 

That’s actually not the case, the accounts are taken from a period of 3 years up to the season in question, so they’re only in breach for the 2021-2022 season because their accounts went 15 mill over what they were allowed to do based on the financial situation they were in 3 years before. They did appeal indeed which they are I’m entitled to do , but realistically when it comes to punishments like this it should be retroactive cause they had actively cheated against Burnley, not against us. The end of the day the system for this is broken, but at the same time to say we should feel aggrieved for it is daft as well. The only team that should have a lot of grievance is Burnley.

[The Horse's Mouth]

1 hour ago, Qwerty said:

I started out feeling really glad that Everton had been punished, but now I’m just frustrated that we didn’t do the same.  If we’d cheated, bought players, broken FFP rules and had a 10 point deduction, we’d still be in the PL and be quite comfortable there too, in the same way Everton will be in a few weeks.   I had a look at an Everton fan forum and they’re not worried at all.  

We had a team more than capable of staying up, persisting with a manager a year past his sell by date was our downfall not so much investment. 

[Spudulike]

1 minute ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

That’s actually not the case, the accounts are taken from a period of 3 years up to the season in question, so they’re only in breach for the 2021-2022 season because their accounts went 15 mill over what they were allowed to do based on the financial situation they were in 3 years before. They did appeal indeed which they are I’m entitled to do , but realistically when it comes to punishments like this it should be retroactive cause they had actively cheated against Burnley, not against us. The end of the day the system for this is broken, but at the same time to say we should feel aggrieved for it is daft as well. The only team that should have a lot of grievance is Burnley.

So why wasn't the 10 point deduction applied last season? 

[The Horse's Mouth]

2 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

So why wasn't the 10 point deduction applied last season? 

Because they appealed on the investigation under the guise they could provide evidence that proved they weren’t in breach 

[CUJimmy]

1 hour ago, smudger63 said:

Plus if we had been given a 10 point penalty that season,  we would still have gone up. 

Also, we had done a deal with all our creditors that would have meant staying out of administration, apart from one, Eric Hall the agent of Dennis Wise, who wouldn't agree, and threatened to serve a winding up order on us, which pretty much forced our hand in going into administration.

The same could not be said of Ipswich, who went into administration a few months later, and also didn't get a point deduction, but somehow that always seems to be forgotten.

This was precipitated though by the collapse of the ITV Digital deal which would have provided substantial funds.  Our case, and others, led to the points deduction for going into administration and the introduction of parachute payments.  Had parachute payments been in place we would probably not have gone into admin and there would not have been as issue.  Also, local businesses would not have gone under.

[kristianity77]

Thing is our adminstration from what I understand wasnt entirely our fault.  As others have said the collapse of TV deals didn't help and that massively screwed us over.

 

Ask yourself this, how many teams in the top two divisions would land in adminstration now if sky collapsed? 

Edited 18 November 2023 by kristianity77

[Izzy]

 

[leicsmac]

I think that we should do the lawsuit, however I'm also pretty sure the burden of proof for indicating liability on the part of Everton and thus winning won't be easy to meet.

 

Are there any legal eagles or folks familiar with the case that can indicate what the aforementioned burden of proof might be?

[Spudulike]

1 hour ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

Because they appealed on the investigation under the guise they could provide evidence that proved they weren’t in breach 

Clearly they couldn't and another reason why compensation is applicable. 

[SemperEadem]

2 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

It's amazing to me how they can hold a grudge for 20 years despite being completely and totally factually incorrect.

But we did cheat with FFP, paid a fine to sort it out.

[urban.spaceman]

18 minutes ago, SemperEadem said:

But we did cheat with FFP, paid a fine to sort it out.

We were investigated and eventually declared to not have broken any rules deliberately, plus

the EFL conceded that the rules were open to interpretation. And it was a settlement, not a fine. We were fully vindicated. 

[urban.spaceman]

 

[The Horse's Mouth]

24 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

Clearly they couldn't and another reason why compensation is applicable. 

Compensation isn’t applicable though because they didn’t break the rules last season lol. The only team that have a case for compensation are Burnley, who would’ve survived because that’s the season they actually violated the rules.

[Dahnsouff]

12 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

Compensation isn’t applicable though because they didn’t break the rules last season lol. The only team that have a case for compensation are Burnley, who would’ve survived because that’s the season they actually violated the rules.

Doesn’t it depend when the 3 year period covers, which is the period over which loses are allowed?