Notts F & Everton admit to breaking rules and face points deduction

[fox in the sox]

1 hour ago, Fear Of The Fox said:

10pts is a fair deduction. I don't know why you're all thinking Everton will not struggle. Their next game is against ManUtd. It's Luton vs Palace and SheffUtd vs Bournemouth. They're going to Forest 2nd of December and the same day it's Burnley vs SheffUtd. 

Some of you are more optimistic than Everton fans. 

They got at least 8 more points than the 3 promoted teams from the first 12 matches. They are now just 2 points from survival. There is a very strong chance that they will stay up.

Edited 17 November 2023 by fox in the sox

[Fox1970]

2 hours ago, Wymsey said:

To be honest, we were rather lucky in not receiving a points deduction back in 2002 over the administration situation.

Well, not really, as there was no penalty at that point for going into administration.

There were many clubs around that time who experienced admin, and yet LCFC are the ones who seem to kop it, even from our own supporters at times

[shen]

So Simon Jordan seems to think there is no chance of winning a lawsuit as all clubs sign off on points deduction sanctions for financial breaches. 

 

Surely the problem here is the delay in coming to a verdict. It has vindicated Everton's decision to mismanage - they've at least earned another year in the PL at the expense of another club. You may even argue that their strategy has allowed them an inflated squad for the entire period, so each club relegated in third-last position could feel aggrieved.

 

I just don't understand how these rules and the verdicts are fair or do in any way discourage other clubs from doing the same.

 

A 10-point deduction for 5+ years of overspend? Why not just throw out clubs doing this?

[tom27111]

If you're Everton right now, you take your 10 point deduction. Don't even think about an appeal.

 

Any other year, it'd probably mean they're relegated. No chance that happens this year.

 

It's probably the weakest league ever.

 

Why ask for your points back and pay a fine?

 

Keep your money. Even a few league placings higher and the prize money wouldn't cover the fine.

 

Stop moaning, take your 'punishment' and behind closed doors, laugh at how you got away with it, because the timing was impeccable. 

[urban.spaceman]

If any Everton fan tries to bring up our FFP case with the EFL - tell them two things.

 

1. The EFL explicitly found in our favour, that we had not deliberately broken any rules, and conceded that their rules were too open to interpretation.

 

2. The £3.1m settlement we paid was more of a courtesy, and is roughly equivalent to a 9th of Cenk Tosun.

[Foxmeister]

5 hours ago, MalletFox said:

I don’t disagree with you that the ‘bigger’ clubs seem to get away it, but other than Man City we don’t really know the specifics, so can’t really comment.

 

Everton have been spending ludicrous amounts of money on horrendous players for a long time, so it’s no surprise to me that it’s caught up with them, even with cashing in on Gordon.

 

The likes of Chelsea have amortised costs over long contract durations, which isn’t a breach of the FFP rules, although I read a while ago that the rules will look to be updated to counter this now. But for me, that is more ‘clever’ use of financial accounting, and isn’t in breach of the rules. 
 

It’s going to be very interesting over these next few years regards what pivots FFP makes. The whole Newcastle/Saudi piece has added another dynamic which further challenges the morals of how the PL is set up. Being able to take their pick of Saudi based players who they can presumably loan in, possibly not contributing wages etc is going to be very interesting to see how the PL try to handle that, as again, I suspect legally they will be the right side of the line, unlike Everton.

Not that clever if the players prove to be poor signings which to some extent they already have.

 

The amortisation means they've already spent a lot of their available transfer budget up to 2029 and players on big wages amd long contracts will be difficult to shift.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see Chelsea collapse over the next few years.

[Gamble92]

19 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

If any Everton fan tries to bring up our FFP case with the EFL - tell them two things.

 

1. The EFL explicitly found in our favour, that we had not deliberately broken any rules, and conceded that their rules were too open to interpretation.

 

2. The £3.1m settlement we paid was more of a courtesy, and is roughly equivalent to a 9th of Cenk Tosun.

I was talking to a Burnley fan a couple of years ago who randomly said we cheated when we went up and I assumed he meant back in 2002 but he was on about the last promotion. Strange how much other fans hold these grudges. For a team supposedly with no rivals we seen to have a lot of haters. 

[Foxmeister]

If it's 10 points per charge it'll be 1150 for Man City, they could miss out on the top 4 all together.

[ozleicester]

I find my self in a difficult position... my life is spent supporting a socialist ideal... EXCEPT when it comes to sport.

In real life our goal should be to make everyone live life as well as possible

In sport (a game) the intent is to be better than everyone else! and as long as you arent harming others or taking drugs to do it, then use every legal tactic in your arsenal. Yes i understand that FFP is a rule... but its a rule done for sporting socialism. The reason we want to be in the PL is because thats where we see the very best and thats what we want in sport.

So.. Socialism NOW! except in sport

[Dan LCFC]

4 hours ago, tom27111 said:

If you're Everton right now, you take your 10 point deduction. Don't even think about an appeal.

 

Any other year, it'd probably mean they're relegated. No chance that happens this year.

 

It's probably the weakest league ever.

 

Why ask for your points back and pay a fine?

 

Keep your money. Even a few league placings higher and the prize money wouldn't cover the fine.

 

Stop moaning, take your 'punishment' and behind closed doors, laugh at how you got away with it, because the timing was impeccable. 

It was but I think this is quite literally why it's happened now and not a year ago. It's as close to a token gesture as this can be.

[Foxmeister]

2 hours ago, ozleicester said:

I find my self in a difficult position... my life is spent supporting a socialist ideal... EXCEPT when it comes to sport.

In real life our goal should be to make everyone live life as well as possible

In sport (a game) the intent is to be better than everyone else! and as long as you arent harming others or taking drugs to do it, then use every legal tactic in your arsenal. Yes i understand that FFP is a rule... but its a rule done for sporting socialism. The reason we want to be in the PL is because thats where we see the very best and thats what we want in sport.

So.. Socialism NOW! except in sport

Without capitalism where's the money coming from to fund the clubs? 

[ozleicester]

55 minutes ago, Foxmeister said:

Without capitalism where's the money coming from to fund the clubs? 

Nope, not trapping me into being banned again, suffice to say Democratic Socialist economies continue to thrive.

[AmyLGK]

My husband just called Everton "the Premier League turd that won't flush"... 

 

 

🤣

[The Horse's Mouth]

18 hours ago, The Doctor said:

Come on, you're not this oblivious. We were god awful yes, no-one is denying that, but Everton cheated massively. Without that they wouldn't have picked up the two extra points and would have gone down instead of us. Hence, their cheating kept them up at the expense of us instead. We'd have been dogshit and finished 17th instead

They weren’t found guilty of breaching FFP last season, it was for the season before. They weren’t punished last season because they went to an appeal. The only season they “cheated” they funnily enough finished mid table and didn’t need to. It’s clear as well that since this it’s not exactly aided their survival efforts either having to cut cloth and bring in journeymen. if we’re talking about just and fairness they should’ve retroactively been punished for the season they did actually break the rules rather for one that they had complied in. 

[The Doctor]

6 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

They weren’t found guilty of breaching FFP last season, it was for the season before. They weren’t punished last season because they went to an appeal. The only season they “cheated” they funnily enough finished mid table and didn’t need to. It’s clear as well that since this it’s not exactly aided their survival efforts either having to cut cloth and bring in journeymen. if we’re talking about just and fairness they should’ve retroactively been punished for the season they did actually break the rules rather for one that they had complied in. 

the squad they assembled through breaching the PSR didn't all leave before the start of last season. Their cheating gave them a squad that was capable of staying up at our expense last season. Why people are so determined to give them leeway absolutely baffles me

[fox_favourite]

20 minutes ago, AmyLGK said:

My husband just called Everton "the Premier League turd that won't flush"... 

 

 

🤣

The unflushable stinking floater

[The Horse's Mouth]

43 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

the squad they assembled through breaching the PSR didn't all leave before the start of last season. Their cheating gave them a squad that was capable of staying up at our expense last season. Why people are so determined to give them leeway absolutely baffles me

No it didn’t though  , they had to offload accordingly last season to comply which they did. They didn’t break any regulations when we were against them, I’m not determined to give them leeway I don’t even like Everton. I just don’t buy into this woe is us crap victim mentality way of thinking. Had they been found guilty of ffp wrong doing last season then I would completely be on your side they’d have actively cheated against us , but they didn’t. The only team that can have this type of wrong done mentality is Burnley as it appears they’ve had stayed up the season Everton should’ve retroactively faced punishment 

Edited 18 November 2023 by The Horse's Mouth

[Mythyaar]

We've infringed FFP in the not so recent past. And didn't receive a points deduction.

 

And don't forget the trail of destruction we left behind during the 2002 administration. Again, no meaningful sanctions.

 

Glass houses springs to mind.

[HarryDee8]

Definitely sue them!!!! 

 

There 300 mill payout can fund our stadium expansion! 🤣

Edited 18 November 2023 by HarryDee8

[Miella27]

17 minutes ago, Mythyaar said:

We've infringed FFP in the not so recent past. And didn't receive a points deduction.

 

And don't forget the trail of destruction we left behind during the 2002 administration. Again, no meaningful sanctions.

 

Glass houses springs to mind.

I'd imagine you are trolling, either that or you have no idea about the FA/league rules at each of these periods you refer to. 

[Benguin]

20 hours ago, Bryn said:

I would say in these circumstances you should relegate them in addition to the teams that went down. We deserved relegation for being shit, they deserved it for cheating.

Agreed, extra promotion spot for championship for that season. 
 

we went down because we weren’t goid enough - We dont deserve to be in the prem off the back of a technicality 

[Nod.E]

20 hours ago, The Doctor said:

Did they finish in the final relegation position and so would have stayed up if everton had been deducted the points and finished below them, yes or no?

Hard work isn't it

[jim5000]

13 hours ago, Tom12345 said:

Yeah, the fact that Forest is comfortably above the drop zone says it all. There are at least 6 teams that are truly quite poor at the bottom:

Luton

Bournemouth

Burnley

Forest

Sheffield United

Everton (though they are a “real” PL club despite their poor organisation)

 

Then you still have names like Fulham, Brentford.

 

While you have more established names like:

Leicester

Leeds

Southampton

West Brom

 

and even like

Cardiff

Ipswich

Birmingham

Sunderland

Middlesborough

 

all down in the Championship.

 

The PL is as poor as it has been for at least 10 years.

 

 

Well it’s our own fault we are not in it. Our fate was in our own hands last season whether Everton cheated or not. It was still inexcusable for us to finish where we did with the squad we had.

[Grebfromgrebland]

6 minutes ago, jim5000 said:

Well it’s our own fault we are not in it. Our fate was in our own hands last season whether Everton cheated or not. It was still inexcusable for us to finish where we did with the squad we had.

I think one of the reasons we fell apart was that we didn't have funds to strengthen and the players and manager threw their toys out of the pram.

 

Remember Brendan was promised funds then at the last minute denied them.

[kingkisnorbo]

9 minutes ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

I think one of the reasons we fell apart was that we didn't have funds to strengthen and the players and manager threw their toys out of the pram.

 

Remember Brendan was promised funds then at the last minute denied them.

Squad was more than good enough to stay up. That argument fell to bits soon after it was made.