Notts F & Everton admit to breaking rules and face points deduction

[Qwerty]

I'm amazed that people keep saying we can't prove that we'd have stayed up if Everton hadn't cheated, that we deserved to be relegated, that it's our own fault etc etc, and referring to specific games where we made mistakes and lost.

 

The fact is, Everton cheated and we didn't. 

We both had crap cars with empty tanks, but they sneakily put some petrol in theirs and won the race.  Surely that's more than a coincidence. 

Edited 17 November 2023 by Qwerty

[Lineker's Left Foot]

They were able to refresh their team and we weren’t; not our fault they wasted it on dross

[bovril]

They'll stay up on the last day of course, with some incredible slice of fortune. The Everton way.

[cityfanlee23]

1 hour ago, Scotch said:

Mcneil scored 2 winning goals last year. Tarkowski scored 1 as did Maupay (Southampton, Brentford, Arsenal and someone else I can't remember.)

 

All those players signed last year. Take out even one of those goals and we stay up. 

 

I get it's hard to argue that someone else wouldn't have scored that goal if it wasn't them but I don't think there is any doubt that their bending of the rules earned them at least 2 points last year and that two points makes all the difference.

Yeah, I completely agree with this also. I've said to multiple others that I actually do agree with the logic of most arguments on this thread, I personally believe that we went down because we were not good enough but also believe Everton cheated, on top of that, I can't prove that if they had not cheated they would not have stayed up. I'm not making this point as a defence to Everton but I really believe all their signings made them worse and if they had gone back 5 years and not spent all that money they would likely be in a better position now on the pitch, but again I have no real basis to make that a claim. 

Hopefully, we can reach some sort of financial settlement. 

[Foxmeister]

3 hours ago, SouthStandUpperTier said:

What is the limit? The BBC article says this

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67448714

 

Premier League clubs are permitted to lose £105m over a three-year period and Everton admitted to being in breach of the profit and sustainability rules (PSR) for the period ending 2021-22.

Following a five-day hearing in October, the commission found in favour of the Premier League that Everton's losses during that period amounted to £124.5m.

Oh, I didn't see the 3 year bit. I know a lot of stuff isn't included, infrastructure, women's team etc. but that's concerning.

[Foxmeister]

3 hours ago, tom27111 said:

 

The limit is £105m over a 3 year period.

 

£50m a year is considerably outside the limit.

Yeah, I misread the limit.

[cityfanlee23]

1 minute ago, bovril said:

They'll stay up on the last day of course, with some incredible slice of fortune. The Everton way.

I think the promoted 3 are way too poor to be an issue, I think even if Everton finish 4th bottom it will be with a comfortable 7-8 point margin, can't see any of the promoted 3 improving much unfortunately. Everton going down would be a good punishment. 

[tickler28]

I feel like this news has really pi$$ed me off...can't shake it

[trooky]

FFP should be scrapped, it's bollocks. It was originally created to stop clubs going bust, but nobody in the PL will go bust.

 

It just benefits the biggest commercial clubs and holds back clubs  of our size.

 

If they really want a level playing field then they're should create a realistic salary cap and transfer system for the PL which isn't based on commercial value.

[Rusko187]

They were able to spend beyond their means and survive, we had to cut our cloth accordingly and went down - all the justification I need to sue them.

[Gazza M]

They are playing quite well at the min. They will still better the 3 promoted sides and Bournemouth in my opinion.

[Matt]

47 minutes ago, MalletFox said:

Well, it is, 100% entirely their fault that they’ve broke the rules. This idea that “well everyone else is doing, so what the hell …” is a ridiculous analogy. And if people want to run their clubs/businesses like that, then it’s only a matter of time until they come unstuck. So I guess you could say, they tried it on, and have come unstuck!

Fair enough for me to have said it's not their fault is silly, of course it's their fault, they spent the money but the rest of my points still stand, it's still the PL or whoever is governing FFP's fault for not being stringent enough or not governing, at all.

 

As for only a matter or time until they come unstuck, maybe for the smaller, 'lesser' clubs but tell that to the Man City's, Chelsea's, Man Utd's, Barcelona's (albeit not PL - and despite their issues, still functioning as a force) - never coming unstuck, never being punished. A fine to those clubs isn't a punishment to them, it doesn't hurt them.

 

I'm not sticking up for Everton here by the way, they've done wrong and deserve punishment, 10 points isn't harsh enough imo, I also feel other clubs have done worse and should have been punished harsher and longer before now though, again, that's on the powers that be.

 

Edited 17 November 2023 by Matt

[Qwerty]

1 minute ago, Gazza M said:

They are playing quite well at the min. They will still better the 3 promoted sides and Bournemouth in my opinion.

Yes, that’s the thing - they cheated and managed to stay in the PL.  And now they’ve been punished, but it happens to be in a season when there are 3 other dreadful teams who will certainly go down.  So they gambled and got lucky. Which really pisses me off! 

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, Gazza M said:

They are playing quite well at the min. They will still better the 3 promoted sides and Bournemouth in my opinion.

This is their one in five season, where they survive fairly easily and their board and fans then complain in the closed season about how deserve better than Dyche-ball.

Then the cycle will repeat.

[phoneticerror]

25 minutes ago, bovril said:

They'll stay up on the last day of course, with some incredible slice of fortune. The Everton way.

The gap isn’t that bad, they’ll be fine

[Wymsey]

Reckon this'll be overturned to some extent..

[Dahnsouff]

4 minutes ago, Wymsey said:

Reckon this'll be overturned to some extent..

Reduced on appeal I reckon 

[Qwerty]

6 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Reduced on appeal I reckon 

I don’t think it will be.  But it won’t matter, because by then Luton, Sheffield and Burnley will already have been relegated. 

[urban.spaceman]

21 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Reduced on appeal I reckon 

Should be ****ing increased.

[Unabomber]

Won’t be reduced. You can’t give a points deduction and apply it and then change it. 

[Dahnsouff]

5 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

Should be ****ing increased.

Cannot see the EPL wanting to boxing themselves into a corner when it comes to dealing with the big boys, points for Everton and large fines for the bigger clubs

[Costock_Fox]

4 hours ago, Gamble92 said:

It was our own fault. But that doesn't excuse the fact the team one place and 2 points above us broke the rules.

Umpa loopa

[MalletFox]

48 minutes ago, Matt said:

Fair enough for me to have said it's not their fault is silly, of course it's their fault, they spent the money but the rest of my points still stand, it's still the PL or whoever is governing FFP's fault for not being stringent enough or not governing, at all.

 

As for only a matter or time until they come unstuck, maybe for the smaller, 'lesser' clubs but tell that to the Man City's, Chelsea's, Man Utd's, Barcelona's (albeit not PL - and despite their issues, still functioning as a force) - never coming unstuck, never being punished. A fine to those clubs isn't a punishment to them, it doesn't hurt them.

 

I'm not sticking up for Everton here by the way, they've done wrong and deserve punishment, 10 points isn't harsh enough imo, I also feel other clubs have done worse and should have been punished harsher and longer before now though, again, that's on the powers that be.

 

I don’t disagree with you that the ‘bigger’ clubs seem to get away it, but other than Man City we don’t really know the specifics, so can’t really comment.

 

Everton have been spending ludicrous amounts of money on horrendous players for a long time, so it’s no surprise to me that it’s caught up with them, even with cashing in on Gordon.

 

The likes of Chelsea have amortised costs over long contract durations, which isn’t a breach of the FFP rules, although I read a while ago that the rules will look to be updated to counter this now. But for me, that is more ‘clever’ use of financial accounting, and isn’t in breach of the rules. 
 

It’s going to be very interesting over these next few years regards what pivots FFP makes. The whole Newcastle/Saudi piece has added another dynamic which further challenges the morals of how the PL is set up. Being able to take their pick of Saudi based players who they can presumably loan in, possibly not contributing wages etc is going to be very interesting to see how the PL try to handle that, as again, I suspect legally they will be the right side of the line, unlike Everton.

[Sly]

6 hours ago, ramboacdc said:

Didn't a precident get set for this though when Sheff United tried to take West Ham to court over the Tevez situation?  We will go for lost revenue I assume, but if the place has no money anyway we will get bugger all. 

Would make a fantastic episode of Can't Pay, We Take It Away though.

 

I can picture it now.

 

They’ll make off with Calvert Lewis and auction him of for £17.69

[shailen]

I don't think anyone has considered that one of the reasons we went down last season was the toxic vibe created by Rodgers as a result of not being given funds he was promised as we wanted to stay on the right side of FFP. If we don't get anything then we'll be punished for following the rules and it's a big loss of income and prestige that we've had.