Next Manager

[Dan]

Not enough time has passed for the Moyes Everton upturn to be called anything more than a new manager bounce. Even if it is more I don't think Moyes being better than Dyche is some massive revelation. Are we expecting to get a manager in as good as Moyes?

 

We are in such a mess off the pitch. Our entire off field process is random so we really can get virtually anything. We're a good case study of randomness in football. Dyche is above average.

 

I did find the whole Rodgers-esque reputation management thing quite interesting though from the Everton fan. I can see that becoming a thing down the line. I think this would get worked out here fairly quickly if it were true

[FrankieADZ]

19 minutes ago, dmayne7 said:

 Pot kettle black much

nah i think all the managers we'd be going for have pros and cons

just the fact hes "good friends" with Rudkin doesnt sit overly right with me atm, plus he'd want a really high wage too, its one of them where yeah on paper it looks a sound appointment but if it goes wrong it will set us further back

given the how rodgers was giving months longer than he should have

dont get me wrong ill support him if he comes in

but hes got to use the youth we have, and play to the squad strengths

Edited 23 June 2025 by FrankieADZ

[dmayne7]

10 minutes ago, winteriscoming said:

It won’t happen but look abroad. 
Jess Thorup is who I’d like us to get. Readily available and has a history of developing young players. 
As well as these also being readily available. 
Paolo Vanoli 

Rafaelle Palladino 

Kasper Hjulmand 

Bo Svensson 

Imanol Alguacil 

 

We don’t have to limit ourselves to this country. 

 

 

 

 

You're right that we shouldn't limit where we cast out net by everyone fixates on overseas managers as though they are definitely going to be better. 

 

A manager is only as good as his last job and basically every single manager in history has probably failed somewhere.

[GingerrrFox]

If Sean Dyche gets the job. I’m on record to say he’s sacked before the end of the season. 

[dmayne7]

39 minutes ago, FrankieADZ said:

nah i think all the managers we'd be going for have pros and cons

just the fact hes "good friends" with Rudkin doesnt sit overly right with me atm, plus he'd want a really high wage too, its one of them where yeah on paper it looks a sound appointment but if it goes wrong it will set us further back

given the how rodgers was giving months longer than he should have

dont get me wrong ill support him if he comes in

but hes got to use the youth we have, and play to the squad strengths

I'd have been smack in the middle of whether I want him, angling slightly more to being pleased to get him, but this is what would really concern me.

 

The younger players bit is hard to really judge when he hasn't been in a situation like ours that surely dictates they are utilised a lot.

[WestLothianFox]

25 minutes ago, GingerrrFox said:

If Sean Dyche gets the job. I’m on record to say he’s sacked before the end of the season. 

If the rumours are true that we are waiting for the new season to sack RVN, I cant see us then sacking the new manager within the same season due to PSR

 

 

[Grebfromgrebland]

Unfortunately dyche is the best name we've been linked with so far 

[The Horse's Mouth]

1 hour ago, whoareyaaa said:

Really ? I bet most fans in the ground have hardly heard of him or know who he is.. Dyche would be the one to please the fan base as most know what he's about and what hes done previously.

He managed Sheffield Wednesday not dukla Prague like 

[whoareyaaa]

2 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

He managed Sheffield Wednesday not dukla Prague like 

The point still stands, there will be a lot of fans who have never heard of him until now.

[GingerrrFox]

14 minutes ago, WestLothianFox said:

If the rumours are true that we are waiting for the new season to sack RVN, I cant see us then sacking the new manager within the same season due to PSR

 

 

I can when we are languishing in 10th place playing a rigid 4-4-2 with the likes of BDCR and Michael Keane playing over the likes of Jeremy Monga and Ben Nelson because the chances of Dyche putting any emphasis on utilising our promising youth are low. 

[Tommy Fresh]

1 hour ago, whoareyaaa said:

Really ? I bet most fans in the ground have hardly heard of him or know who he is.. Dyche would be the one to please the fan base as most know what he's about and what hes done previously.

Regardless, if you hadn't heard of him and saw we'd actually paid to get him out of his current job rather then plonk for an out of work manager, it shows a bit more ambition

[honeybradger]

13 hours ago, Bob Weasel Fox said:

**** me that's horrific 

The fact that all but 3 of those are players we currently have at the club as well... It makes me shiver thinking about it.

[inckley fox]

1 hour ago, winteriscoming said:

It won’t happen but look abroad. 
Jess Thorup is who I’d like us to get. Readily available and has a history of developing young players. 
As well as these also being readily available. 
Paolo Vanoli 

Rafaelle Palladino 

Kasper Hjulmand 

Bo Svensson 

Imanol Alguacil 

 

We don’t have to limit ourselves to this country. 

You're right that there's no need to limit ourselves, and any one of those names could well come to English football and do well in the future.

 

As a rule, I'd say that that a manager's track record only tells you so much when employers have a good sense of what their current squad needs, and where they want to go with it. And by that, I don't necessarily mean obsessing over whether we should be an attacking side, a possession-based side, or other preferences over style. The most eyebrow-raising of appointments can be sensational when you have the right person at the right time. In our history alone you have loads of successful managers, going all the way back to Hodge in the twenties, who had little on their CVs to indicate they'd do so well. You could say that about Gillies, O'Farrell, Bloomfield, Little, Pearson, Maresca. Even Ranieri. On the other hand, you might have expected better things from the likes of Holloway, Sousa and Sven. Most managers are seasoned, experienced pros and capable in circumstances that suit them. It's just that they rarely find those circumstances and, when they do, often let their ambitions get the better of them.

 

As for those names you mentioned, I guess the concerns are whether their style of leadership will manage to bridge the language gap (though if they're Danish, it shouldn't be too hard!) and footballing culture gap. A lot of people have mentioned Richie Wellens, but the second of those risk factors would linger over him, or Dave Challinor who has an absolutely insane record in the lower leagues. Are they both purely made for the lower leagues like, say, Martin Allen, Barry Fry, Steve Evans, Paul Sturrock? Or are they essentially top level managers who are doing so well at those levels because they have the quality to do so much more, like Martin O'Neill? It's gone wrong more often than it's gone right, but if you know what you're looking for as a recruiting club, you'll identify the characteristics. Sadly, I doubt we have people who can do that.

 

There are a couple of other problems, I think, when it comes to these sorts of names. The first is that we're often drawn to unknown quantities. Very few of us have seen much of Hjulmand's or Svenson's football, so we haven't had chance to be put off in the way we have by Martin's or Dyche's approaches. We haven't heard them espouse their philosophies, and had the chance to disagree with them. When you do, a foreign accent can cloud a lot of things. Is the manager in question a luminary with a bit of a broken accent, or would they sound like the equivalent of Big Ron if we spoke their language? These things can kid us sometimes. Okay, so they shouldn't kid a competent interviewer, but...

 

The second is that, typically, these managers haven't achieved any kind of sustained success. You don't need to have, of course, but people made a big deal over how Cooper had only kept a side up once and that didn't make him a specialist, and how Ruud's success had been over an even shorter sample period. And I understand why these concerns exist, to a degree, because football history is full of one-hit wonders. When people complain that we should be going for someone with calibre which is proven over time, they might not realise it but they're asking for a Dyche of sorts. And when you look at some of those managers you listed, there's a big risk that many of them were flashes in the proverbial pan. After a quick glance, Hjulmand bombed at Mainz, his only post in a major league, albeit after a good start. Svensson did brilliantly at Mainz, but struggled at Union Berlin. Thorup did brilliantly in Scandinavia and Belgium, but was mediocre at Augsburg. Palladino was promoted from within and did well at Monza, and may have been unlucky to get fired by Fiorentina, but the picture's still far from clear. Imanol was fantastic at Sociedad, but again was a long-standing coach there before he made the step up - how wi a guy in his mid-fifties fare in a new league at a new club after a decade-and-a-half in one place? Vanoli did okay in Russia and won a promotion at Venezia, but his season at Torino was deemed a disappointment and, again, this is a guy in his fifties who spent much of his career as a coach. Given his lack of knowledge of the FLC, his age etc. would you bank on him to thrive at this level?

 

It's true, nonetheless, that any one of these people may prove to be the right man. You'll see some of them, I'm sure, do well in the future. But if your managerial recruitment is conducted by people with apparently limited knowledge of the game and a very loose grasp on what the club needs, you have to be wary about their ability to pluck the ideal candidate from the ether. Even they may be learning (given that their one admirable 'find', in Maresca, got his promotion but did so with a lot of short-term fixes that left us without much of a chance of staying up) that, for them, the safer bet is to go down the tried and tested route.

 

It doesn't mean we have to like it. I don't, for one. But until there are changes in the people that recruit our managers, it may be the safest bet.

[winteriscoming]

34 minutes ago, inckley fox said:

You're right that there's no need to limit ourselves, and any one of those names could well come to English football and do well in the future.

 

As a rule, I'd say that that a manager's track record only tells you so much when employers have a good sense of what their current squad needs, and where they want to go with it. And by that, I don't necessarily mean obsessing over whether we should be an attacking side, a possession-based side, or other preferences over style. The most eyebrow-raising of appointments can be sensational when you have the right person at the right time. In our history alone you have loads of successful managers, going all the way back to Hodge in the twenties, who had little on their CVs to indicate they'd do so well. You could say that about Gillies, O'Farrell, Bloomfield, Little, Pearson, Maresca. Even Ranieri. On the other hand, you might have expected better things from the likes of Holloway, Sousa and Sven. Most managers are seasoned, experienced pros and capable in circumstances that suit them. It's just that they rarely find those circumstances and, when they do, often let their ambitions get the better of them.

 

As for those names you mentioned, I guess the concerns are whether their style of leadership will manage to bridge the language gap (though if they're Danish, it shouldn't be too hard!) and footballing culture gap. A lot of people have mentioned Richie Wellens, but the second of those risk factors would linger over him, or Dave Challinor who has an absolutely insane record in the lower leagues. Are they both purely made for the lower leagues like, say, Martin Allen, Barry Fry, Steve Evans, Paul Sturrock? Or are they essentially top level managers who are doing so well at those levels because they have the quality to do so much more, like Martin O'Neill? It's gone wrong more often than it's gone right, but if you know what you're looking for as a recruiting club, you'll identify the characteristics. Sadly, I doubt we have people who can do that.

 

There are a couple of other problems, I think, when it comes to these sorts of names. The first is that we're often drawn to unknown quantities. Very few of us have seen much of Hjulmand's or Svenson's football, so we haven't had chance to be put off in the way we have by Martin's or Dyche's approaches. We haven't heard them espouse their philosophies, and had the chance to disagree with them. When you do, a foreign accent can cloud a lot of things. Is the manager in question a luminary with a bit of a broken accent, or would they sound like the equivalent of Big Ron if we spoke their language? These things can kid us sometimes. Okay, so they shouldn't kid a competent interviewer, but...

 

The second is that, typically, these managers haven't achieved any kind of sustained success. You don't need to have, of course, but people made a big deal over how Cooper had only kept a side up once and that didn't make him a specialist, and how Ruud's success had been over an even shorter sample period. And I understand why these concerns exist, to a degree, because football history is full of one-hit wonders. When people complain that we should be going for someone with calibre which is proven over time, they might not realise it but they're asking for a Dyche of sorts. And when you look at some of those managers you listed, there's a big risk that many of them were flashes in the proverbial pan. After a quick glance, Hjulmand bombed at Mainz, his only post in a major league, albeit after a good start. Svensson did brilliantly at Mainz, but struggled at Union Berlin. Thorup did brilliantly in Scandinavia and Belgium, but was mediocre at Augsburg. Palladino was promoted from within and did well at Monza, and may have been unlucky to get fired by Fiorentina, but the picture's still far from clear. Imanol was fantastic at Sociedad, but again was a long-standing coach there before he made the step up - how wi a guy in his mid-fifties fare in a new league at a new club after a decade-and-a-half in one place? Vanoli did okay in Russia and won a promotion at Venezia, but his season at Torino was deemed a disappointment and, again, this is a guy in his fifties who spent much of his career as a coach. Given his lack of knowledge of the FLC, his age etc. would you bank on him to thrive at this level?

 

It's true, nonetheless, that any one of these people may prove to be the right man. You'll see some of them, I'm sure, do well in the future. But if your managerial recruitment is conducted by people with apparently limited knowledge of the game and a very loose grasp on what the club needs, you have to be wary about their ability to pluck the ideal candidate from the ether. Even they may be learning (given that their one admirable 'find', in Maresca, got his promotion but did so with a lot of short-term fixes that left us without much of a chance of staying up) that, for them, the safer bet is to go down the tried and tested route.

 

It doesn't mean we have to like it. I don't, for one. But until there are changes in the people that recruit our managers, it may be the safest bet.

I agree. The issue we have is where we are now and we’re not gonna get someone whose stock is high. The manager’s I’ve mentioned have done ok and at times with some success. We’re not gonna get someone who a couple of seasons ago won the cl or Europa league because of where we are now. Absolutely no reason why those mentioned can’t do well here. 
Look at Le Bris at Sunderland last season, Nuno and Bielsa before him and Enzo with us. None had any championship experience. 
 

[AjcW]

On 20/06/2025 at 13:07, stevostadium said:

Dyche is co hosting Talk Sport 1-5 show from Monday so doubt he would do that if he been giving the managers job.

I notice he did Sundays show but hasn't been on Hawksby and Jacobs at all today

Did you get your wires crossed or was he definitely meant to be doing 1-4?

[dannythefox]

5 hours ago, ClaphamFox said:

We can pay compensation from 1st July onwards - that's just over a week away.

But that’s just wasting money plus we’ll have to pay RVN off. Dyche will be the best appointment if it happens, experience, affordable and he’s free. 

[ClaphamFox]

23 minutes ago, dannythefox said:

But that’s just wasting money plus we’ll have to pay RVN off. Dyche will be the best appointment if it happens, experience, affordable and he’s free. 

It's not wasting money if it gets you a better candidate. I don't want Dyche at any price so the fact that he's available for free doesn't cut much ice with me - especially as his wage demands are likely to be higher than Rohl's. 

Edited 23 June 2025 by ClaphamFox

[winteriscoming]

3 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

It's not wasting money if it gets you a better candidate. I don't want Dyche at any price so the fact that he's available for free doesn't come into it for me. 

Exactly what we should have done last summer by getting Corberan in. 
Instead of wasting over 30m on Skipp and Ayew. 

[Chelmofox]

18 minutes ago, dannythefox said:

But that’s just wasting money plus we’ll have to pay RVN off. Dyche will be the best appointment if it happens, experience, affordable and he’s free. 

Does Dyche and his staff not want to take a Salary? If so - thats amazing.

[ClaphamFox]

9 minutes ago, winteriscoming said:

Exactly what we should have done last summer by getting Corberan in. 
Instead of wasting over 30m on Skipp and Ayew. 

You are not wrong.

[STUHILL]

Ideally, I don't really want Dyche. However, I think he is more likely to get us promoted than any of the other names mentioned. 

I fear the gap between the Championship and the Premier League is growing at such a rate, that if we don't get back there within 1-2 seasons, then we are likely to be stuck in the Championship for years. 

[Corky]

5 hours ago, WestLothianFox said:

If the rumours are true that we are waiting for the new season to sack RVN, I cant see us then sacking the new manager within the same season due to PSR

 

 

We'll just sack then appoint on the 1st of July for the next five years.

[dannythefox]

2 hours ago, Chelmofox said:

Does Dyche and his staff not want to take a Salary? If so - thats amazing.

Why be a smart arse 

[Trav Le Bleu]

8 minutes ago, dannythefox said:

Why be a smart arse 

Because it a) winds people up and b) is funny.

[STUHILL]

5 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

Because it a) winds people up and b) is funny.

debatable