Should We Have Kept Cifuentes?

[5waller5]

11 hours ago, 1884HF said:

watch it be mark robins 

That would be way too sensible a choice for our Board

[DJ Barry Hammond]

I think the fans helped make his position untenable at the time of the sacking - so there was really no future for him, if he wasn’t sacked that week, it would more than likely have been the week after.

 

BUT - I personally didn’t feel he was doing too badly given the obvious limitations of the squad - i.e. weak midfield, poor striking options and questionable central defensive pairings.

 

I’d argue that most fans reactions towards him at the time were based on aspirations of us reaching or at least to be challenging for the playoffs - but it should have been growing even more that our squad (as well paid as it is) lacked a lot of the characteristics that signify winning teams.

 

The other massive impasse that has and will continue to hamper any manager going forward is the complete disconnect between the fans, the players and the club.

 

Marti should get some credit for identifying that as a key issue from the start and trying to repair that relationship and feeling between players and fans - but I think it’s a nigh on impossible task to fix without some sort of change at boardroom level now.

[chesterfox]

Happy to say that despite believing he was a good appointment, mainly based on how he got QPR playing, I was 100% wrong about his appointment. The problem lies we all know where - waiting until late pre-season before appointing him, not having a credible replacement when they got rid of him and generally getting so many major decisions wrong.

[RichardGearman]

Oh god we're going to end up with alan sheehan aren't we

[dmayne7]

Just now, chesterfox said:

Happy to say that despite believing he was a good appointment, mainly based on how he got QPR playing, I was 100% wrong about his appointment. The problem lies we all know where - waiting until late pre-season before appointing him, not having a credible replacement when they got rid of him and generally getting so many major decisions wrong.

Same here. Said this often but when QPR beat us at the KP last time we were in the championship, it's one of the few times when I've been super impressed with an opposition manager because it was clearly the instructions of his that made the difference. As we've seen under multiple managers, these players can't follow the manager's instructions.

 

Problem with Marti is that like other recent manager's, he had a lot of mitigating circumstances that would give him more slack from the fan base but he some how managed to blow it. Mainly, how decision to play young players and persisting with the likes of Faes and Winks for too long.

[Manwell Pablo]

10 hours ago, funkyrobot said:

Yes. Clearly there was no plan for who to bring in. Cifuentes was a poor manager but Rowett is even worse. That’s a statistical fact. Rowett has a worse PPG than he even had at Oxford. Getting two Championship clubs relegated in one season. Wow. 

Well it’s funny you should say that as I do distinctly remember saying Marti was a symptom not the cause when this forum was baying for his blood and that top and Rudkin were more than capable of replacing him with someone worse and here we are. 
 

I’m not even sure Rowett is overall a worse manager than Marti but his appointment made me feel hopeful but underwhelmed in the sence he might pull out some of the same things he managed at Birmingham and get us lower mid table but his recent track record suggested it was going to be, yet another, poor appointment by our owners. 
 

The issue is any manager or player is setup to fail at this club at the moment. The fact they keep appointing managers who aren’t of the caliber we expect just compounds it. 
 

I do get a bit frustrated about people not listening to me and others who have done things in football, I am human and I make mistakes and I do get things wrong like all of us do but this situation is so painfully easy to unpick if you have a bit of knowledge and experience. 
 

Theres literally no point in having threads on managers or players. I know it’ll continue as we are football fans who want to discuss football. But just reassured for every Gary Rowett RVN Wout Faes or Harry Winks we get rid of there will be another waiting to come through the door because things aren’t right in the board room. It’s pointless discussing anything else but that. 

[Stadt]

He was shit and we were getting worse.

 

Oxford was a crucial game and we were outplayed. 

[Corky]

Massively helped by James and Fatawu producing outrageous moments. Our points total was flattering and the statistics were alarming, as highlighted yesterday.

[winteriscoming]

The correct decision to get rid of him. 
Just like Cooper the problem was hiring someone worse than him in Ruud. 

[funkyrobot]

3 hours ago, Manwell Pablo said:

Well it’s funny you should say that as I do distinctly remember saying Marti was a symptom not the cause when this forum was baying for his blood and that top and Rudkin were more than capable of replacing him with someone worse and here we are. 
 

I’m not even sure Rowett is overall a worse manager than Marti but his appointment made me feel hopeful but underwhelmed in the sence he might pull out some of the same things he managed at Birmingham and get us lower mid table but his recent track record suggested it was going to be, yet another, poor appointment by our owners. 
 

The issue is any manager or player is setup to fail at this club at the moment. The fact they keep appointing managers who aren’t of the caliber we expect just compounds it. 
 

I do get a bit frustrated about people not listening to me and others who have done things in football, I am human and I make mistakes and I do get things wrong like all of us do but this situation is so painfully easy to unpick if you have a bit of knowledge and experience. 
 

Theres literally no point in having threads on managers or players. I know it’ll continue as we are football fans who want to discuss football. But just reassured for every Gary Rowett RVN Wout Faes or Harry Winks we get rid of there will be another waiting to come through the door because things aren’t right in the board room. It’s pointless discussing anything else but that. 

[cityfanlee23]

I don't think so, would he have done better than Rowett in hindsight? maybe, maybe not. We were rapidly declining under MC, and Rowett being bad in hindsight was not an excuse to keep Marti. 

What we should have done is sacked Marti in December and brought in Hassenhuttl, a manager well renowned for driving very high standards and getting rid/dropping anyone who doesn't follow those standards completely. 

[FoxinNotts]

No.

[Tom12345]

4 hours ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:

I think the fans helped make his position untenable at the time of the sacking - so there was really no future for him, if he wasn’t sacked that week, it would more than likely have been the week after.

 

BUT - I personally didn’t feel he was doing too badly given the obvious limitations of the squad - i.e. weak midfield, poor striking options and questionable central defensive pairings.

 

I’d argue that most fans reactions towards him at the time were based on aspirations of us reaching or at least to be challenging for the playoffs - but it should have been growing even more that our squad (as well paid as it is) lacked a lot of the characteristics that signify winning teams.

 

The other massive impasse that has and will continue to hamper any manager going forward is the complete disconnect between the fans, the players and the club.

 

Marti should get some credit for identifying that as a key issue from the start and trying to repair that relationship and feeling between players and fans - but I think it’s a nigh on impossible task to fix without some sort of change at boardroom level now.

In a way, this is similar to Cooper. When Cooper was sacked, we were around mid-table. Since RVN was appointed, we went straight for relegation. Cooper was doing better than fans gave him credit for and it was also the fans that made his position untenable. 

[Finnegan]

No

[RoboFox]

Love a bit of revisionism, me.

[teblin]

No, shouldn’t have appointed him.

[Chelmofox]

9 minutes ago, Tom12345 said:

In a way, this is similar to Cooper. When Cooper was sacked, we were around mid-table. Since RVN was appointed, we went straight for relegation. Cooper was doing better than fans gave him credit for and it was also the fans that made his position untenable. 

Err, might be worth checking your facts. Position after the Chelsea game when he got sacked. Palace and Wolves were massively underindexing. We were still screwed under Cooper. 
 

[Spanner73]

wake up !!!
Let’s be straight !!! 
 

Rodgers 

Cooper 

RVN 

Cifuentes

Rowett 

 

It might as well be Ronald McDonald if Aiyawatt remains as there’s not one ounce of leadership in the man whatsoever ! 
 

Attitudes

Standards 

leadership 

Decisions 

 

It comes from 1 Man 

 

End of Story !!! 

 

 

 

 

 

[Claudio Fannieri]

53 minutes ago, cityfanlee23 said:

I don't think so, would he have done better than Rowett in hindsight? maybe, maybe not. We were rapidly declining under MC, and Rowett being bad in hindsight was not an excuse to keep Marti. 

What we should have done is sacked Marti in December and brought in Hassenhuttl, a manager well renowned for driving very high standards and getting rid/dropping anyone who doesn't follow those standards completely. 

The problem is I am not sure the hierarchy at the club necessarily back their manager to drive the standards and change in culture. We saw it last season with RvN he tried to take on the toxic players and bad eggs, raise the standards and change the culture and he was cut off at the knees and here we are 12 months later on the verge of another relegation and the likes of Winks et al still here stinking the gaff out because the owner wants to be best mates with his players rather than drive professionalism, hard work and respect. 

[Guy]

17 hours ago, MattFox said:

One of those wins was against West Brom who absolutely battered us for 90 minutes 

Although it's all about putting the ball in the back of the net more than the opposition to win games (a la the above game) when you break it all down then admittedly we did 100% steal that game, if that wasn't a sign of things to come re the woeful way we played in it under Marti though, then I don't know what else was! It still remains debatable if we'd be where we are now under Marti though, at the end of the day his style of football was dull at best and his tactics were poor and his situation had he stayed would've been tempered by the injury to our only really influential player this season in Jordan James soon after.....not to mention the six points deduction!!! 

[Bellend Sebastian]

We've had the lesson that "it can't get any worse" is a phrase almost always proven to be wrong, rammed home quite a lot in the last few years haven't we?

 

Put me in charge, I'll show you what it really means

[DennisNedry]

No, he was awful. 

[coolhandfox]

No, we just replaced him late and with the wrong man.

 

Both him and Rowett have a roughly a 1.3 ppg record in the championship, massive red flag.

[HankMarvin]

If the aim was to try to avoid relegation and give more game time to the younger players he would’ve been better than his replacement.

 

At the time of his sacking they was still thinking about promotion and the playoffs 🤣

A competent board might have had something lined up as opposed to first try someone that didn’t want the Job, before ending up with a candidate sacked from  relegation threatened team 12 points worse off and 3rd from bottom at the time of his sacking.

 

[funkyrobot]

1 hour ago, RoboFox said:

Love a bit of revisionism, me.

Points per game don’t lie mate. No revisionism. Cifuentes is a poor manager but Rowett is statistically worse AND he has ditched the young players.