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Daggers

Absolute *** of our time Pt.MXXVI

By Daggers, in General Chat

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Innovindil

Innovindil

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, String fellow said:

Comedian (former comedian?) Jimmy Carr has apparently out-whoopied Ms Goldberg. They'd probably both learn something by visiting Auschwitz.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-60261876

Not sure what Carr has to learn tbh. He knew exactly that what he was saying was going to offend. He even warned it would before he said it. 

 

Reckon he'd be more upset that his special has been on Netflix for 2 months before anyone started crying about it. Also reckon he'd be disappointed his light hearted take on things like rape, child abuse, domestic violence etc etc didn't even get a passing mention. Even the gingers took a beating. Yet no one seems to give a shit. Strange times we live in. 

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Facecloth

Facecloth

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Whatever anyone thinks of Carr's joke, comparing him to Goldberg doesn't work. His was a joke, we all know Jimmy Carr, we all know he makes outrageous jokes, but I think we all know he doesn't actually think what he says. He makes a lot of these jokes for the shock value. You can think it's in poor taste, you can think its unfunny, but I don't think you can compare it to what Goldberg said, in which she was trying make a serious point and actually 100% believed what she said. The fall out from the Carr thing seems to be lasting longer than the fall out from Goldberg, which says to me people have more of an issue with someone making an offensive joke than someone actually saying something offensive that they actually believe.

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Unabomber

Unabomber

Posted
Posted
45 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

Whatever anyone thinks of Carr's joke, comparing him to Goldberg doesn't work. His was a joke, we all know Jimmy Carr, we all know he makes outrageous jokes, but I think we all know he doesn't actually think what he says. He makes a lot of these jokes for the shock value. You can think it's in poor taste, you can think its unfunny, but I don't think you can compare it to what Goldberg said, in which she was trying make a serious point and actually 100% believed what she said. The fall out from the Carr thing seems to be lasting longer than the fall out from Goldberg, which says to me people have more of an issue with someone making an offensive joke than someone actually saying something offensive that they actually believe.

What did Goldberg say I missed it 

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Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo

Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo

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I've not seen the stand-up (not a huge fan of his), and not sympathising with him, but could the actual joke be the idea that you are laughing at something so abhorrent is so ridiculous, that idea is funny, and gets the laugh? I've cracked up laughing in a couple of situations where you really shouldn't laugh, but the idea of laughing at something so inappropriate is, itself, funny. I doubt most of the audience were laughing because they thought genocide itself is funny. Loads of standups do similar stuff, the onstage persona doesn't necessarily reflect the comedian's actual thoughts

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Facecloth

Facecloth

Posted
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12 minutes ago, Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo said:

I've not seen the stand-up (not a huge fan of his), and not sympathising with him, but could the actual joke be the idea that you are laughing at something so abhorrent is so ridiculous, that idea is funny, and gets the laugh? I've cracked up laughing in a couple of situations where you really shouldn't laugh, but the idea of laughing at something so inappropriate is, itself, funny. I doubt most of the audience were laughing because they thought genocide itself is funny. Loads of standups do similar stuff, the onstage persona doesn't necessarily reflect the comedian's actual thoughts

Reminds me of the Jim Jefferies bit on Bill Cosby a few years ago. I'm sure some people won't like it, some people won't find it funny, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with him doing the routine, which is the point he makes. It's in 2 parts on YouTube if anyone wants to watch it.

 

 

 

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bovril

bovril

Posted
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2 hours ago, Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo said:

I've not seen the stand-up (not a huge fan of his), and not sympathising with him, but could the actual joke be the idea that you are laughing at something so abhorrent is so ridiculous, that idea is funny, and gets the laugh? I've cracked up laughing in a couple of situations where you really shouldn't laugh, but the idea of laughing at something so inappropriate is, itself, funny. I doubt most of the audience were laughing because they thought genocide itself is funny. Loads of standups do similar stuff, the onstage persona doesn't necessarily reflect the comedian's actual thoughts

The 'actual joke' can of course be different to different people and I tend to agree that nothing should be off limits in terms of comedy, but I doubt the audience thought that deeply about it when they heard it. Ultimately it's just a joke about genocide being a good thing. 

 

In some ways I find the ironically racist stuff deployed by some comedians worse than Manning-esque stuff. It's more cowardly in a way, you're letting the audience laugh at something they wouldn't normally admit to being funny because you're doing it a knowing way. It's a get out of jail card - it's what the far right do, just say it was a joke (I'm not for one second suggesting Carr is far right). I didn't watch all the Carr standup but almost every other joke was followed by a comment on how it was going to get him in trouble, which firstly somewhat ruined the routine and secondly suggested to me he wasn't that confident that neither he nor his audience were taking the jokes seriously.

 

For me it just shows how little power traveller communities have compared to other minority groups. I'm not sure he'd make a similar joke about other groups.

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Finnegan

Finnegan

Posted
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3 hours ago, Facecloth said:

Whatever anyone thinks of Carr's joke, comparing him to Goldberg doesn't work

 

I might take some pelters for this but I agree but probably for the opposite reasons you intended. 

 

Carr told an extremely offensive joke that he knew was offensive, that literally implied it was a good thing scores of Roma were murdered. 

 

Goldberg was trying to have a discussion and got lost in it, worded it horrendously poorly, got stuck and made a boob of herself. 

 

I don't believe Jimmy Carr "hates" all gypsies just the same as I don't think Goldberg is distinctly antisemitic. But the difference is that Goldberg got herself tangled trying to discuss a sensitive issue where as Carr thought to himself "you know who's a community of people that will get a laugh if I take the piss out of? Gypsies. Haha." He was relying on that room of people laughing and clapping along at the idea of genocide of the Roma and milked it. 

 

It's objectively worse. 

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SpacedX

SpacedX

Posted
Posted

I heard all the commotion about Jimmy Carr's 'joke', so out of curiosity took a look myself.

 

Just to echo what has already been written and yesterday's comments from @Finnegan and @bovril, I find the response from the audience appalling. This wasn't simply an uncomfortable ripple of nervous laughter or conforming to peer pressure, this was a roar of amusement, whistles and whoops. It reminded me of some of the stupid ****ers at the punk gigs I used to go to that were too dumb to appreciate the satirical lyrics - prompting the DKs to actually have to spell it out with "Nazi Punks F**k Off". Only this wasn't clever - making jokes about the holocaust never is, even if it's directed at the absurdity of The Third Reich which has justifiably long been the subject of British humour. 

 

I agree with @Facecloth, he's emulating routines from people like Jefferies, but the "being clever" or "educating" exemption card is completely mislaid in this case, where the ultimate objective was shock value. He prefaced it by basically saying it’s a bad joke and a career ender, almost a disclaimer, the end justification appearing to be that there is a lack of education concerning other groups targeted by the Nazis, which are overlooked. Pertinent point or not, the fact that he is trying to raise awareness of the Roma was executed through the pejorative use of the term gypsy - which is what actually got the laugh. It was completely lost on the audience - and that's what I find in many ways more concerning that Carr's ill-judged choice of material itself. I'd also contend that the point being made is also currently playing into the hands of the online anti semites. But again I understand the point that @Facecloth makes, Goldberg's statement was perhaps more concerning because it came from sheer ignorance and was clearly something she wholly believed when she said it. Nonetheless, my concern here in both cases is the dumb-**** audience it reaches. 

 

There's 'black humour', and there's places one just doesn't go and this is one of them. Under the banner of 'his dark materials' of course the in house audience knew what to expect, That doesn't justify it though, and for Netflix to put out something that is not fit for broadcast it to an unsuspecting audience is questionable. Outrage sells - we know that. 

 

To my shame, I did laugh. Not at the joke, but at Carr's dreadful 'Monkhouse-esque' delivery and smug self-satisfied demeanour. I hate the cliché that someone has a face you want to punch...but to be fair, he does have a face you want to punch. If it is indeed a career ender, then good - I won't miss him. Perhaps he'll be martyred by Jim Davidson's crowd and he'll appropriate the market recently vacated by Roy Chubby Brown. Because as clever as he thinks his comedy is, the irony being, the current audience that this 'risque' brand of comedy attracts (I term it Boyle's Law), don't have a brain cell to rub between them.  

 

 

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Fox92

Fox92

Posted
Posted
22 hours ago, st albans fox said:

Given that she has carr’s phone no, why should she be expected to make a public comment ?  If your friend said something disgusting I assume you’d speak to them directly rather than put a post up on FB …….. I saw a lot of posts on Twitter earlier that weren’t making any comment on the awful ‘joke’ (not that it could be considered such) but instead asking why baddiel and Riley hadn’t made a public comment.  I would think that says a lot about those tweeting rather than Riley. (And baddiel had actually referenced it and called it out) 

You make a good point about friendship but I cannot forgive Riley because of her photoshop. She smeared Corbyn as a racist / anti semitic on a public platform. 

If she was so anti semetic then she'd have condemned publicly again, regardless of friendship. 

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DennisNedry

DennisNedry

Posted
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On 05/02/2022 at 17:07, Finnegan said:

 

I've been genuinely baffled by this. 

 

Maybe I'm being simple or naive but I just can't see anything other than quite obvious and deliberate career suicide. What on earth was his angle? 

 

I think I get it from Netflix point of view, I think they know their platform is solid enough and the controversy is probably good for the attention. 

 

But for Carr, he's even joked about it being a career ender, no? He's not a thick man, he's going to have understood exactly what he was doing before he went in to it. 

 

And this isn't some Frankie Boyle style close to the wind or some Ricky Gervais clever commentary on racism. It was just a straight up Bernard Manningesque holocaust joke and not even a clever or funny one, it was the sort of shit you'd expect from a crap fascist Facebook meme. 

 

It's not a smart enough joke to be a deliberate bait or a deliberate protest against "cancel culture." It's just shit and offensive and most significantly really unfunny and dull. 

 

 

 

To be funny?

 

Comedy is subjective; what's offensive to you isn't to me and vice versa.

 

I think with Manning there was real venom in his jokes because he was a genuine racist. Carr clearly is no Nazi.

 

I guess I'm in the 'if you don't like it don't watch it, and definitely don't try and cancel it for others' camp. 

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