Fighting between ourselves

[AoWW]

What do you guys think about the pedestrianisation of Norwich city centre?

 

Don't get me started!

[sylofox]

You can see why we fight amongst ourselves, we have people aggressively hating Pearson and those who are weirdly protective of him, like a wife, bound to lead to fighting

Really I see some comments on here and wonder why they have not been hit.

If there is a blockage in the shite house nige gets blamed.

No he is not blame free but the players are not either.

 

And how was summer spending his fault the dof signed the cheques. or did not.

people need to get real sure nige would hold his hands up to his faults if he was not blamed for everything.

 

But seems some of our fans would blame him for the bus being late monday morning.

[inckley fox]

Yawn.

What is this hysterical support for the manager? Where is it?

I am fed up with this utter shite. Every argument against people in favour is laced with one or both of the following complete falsities:

- 'You refuse to acknowledge his mistakes' - no one has said he's perfect

- 'You think Pearson is bigger than the club' - tripe. People think stability is important and that chasing short-term, immediate gains isn't entirely productive.

I'm saddened that we are even having this discussion and I find it embarrassing for you that you think at any stage it is unacceptable to support your team.

 

You are just being rude, stubborn and utterly blind to all of the clear evidence before you.

 

People used to support their team by throwing bananas at black players in the opposition. Was that acceptable to you? Of course there are limits to what is acceptable in supporting your team, and if you are doing something that you know could create an argument with your own fans then that's at very least got to be a grey area.

 

And 'you think Pearson is bigger than the club' is 'tripe'? So we're just completely denying that messages appeared on this forum saying 'I'd rather go down with Pearson than stay up without him'? Or 'I've had it with Leicester if we get rid of him'?

 

You forget that I am in favour of keeping Pearson in charge. But the argument in favour of him has spent too long focusing on past glories at a lower level, or blaming players over the manager, or feeling that relegation is and always has been fine, or placing our manager on far too lofty a pedestal, where he's superior to our own players, fans, even the best managers we've had in our not-too-distant history.

 

The people arguing this are unnecessarily confrontational and frequently counter-productive to any sort of sense of solidarity among our fans.

 

I've argued that if a chant is divisive and likely to cause an argument, then why not save it for those plentiful occasions when it won't cause an argument, you know, the sorts of occasions when other clubs sing their manager's name. But it seems some people are just desperate for a bit of trouble.

 

I've been consistently pro-Pearson, consistently well-mannered, consistently a good and positive fan when I'm at the ground, even if I've dared to suggest a way in which all of us can get on with each other of fans which doesn't involve everybody simply saying 'alright, Pearson is amazing after all, sorry I thought otherwise'. The response from people like yourself tells you a great deal about why you get arguments and fights at a football ground.

[MarshallForEngland]

People used to support their team by throwing bananas at black players in the opposition. Was that acceptable to you? Of course there are limits to what is acceptable in supporting your team, and if you are doing something that you know could create an argument with your own fans then that's at very least got to be a grey area.

 

This is a staggeringly bad argument.

[ozleicester]

What do you guys think about the pedestrianisation of Norwich city centre?

 

Yu What?....

 

WHAT???....

 

YOU!... ME!..... OUTSIDE!!!

[inckley fox]

This is a staggeringly bad argument.

 

You think it was okay to do that?

 

It is wrong to say that it is 'embarrassing' to think that 'at any stage it is unacceptable to support your team'. I just gave one very clear-cut example which demonstrates why that is wrong. Shouting abuse at Pearson would be another, chanting things which you know are likely to spark a row may well be one more. We must have learned from history that the manner of delivering your argument, as opposed to the argument itself, can be both acceptable and unacceptable.

 

People can chant Pearson's name, they can even chant it at an unusual moment in the season when they know people are likely to disagree with them. But why shout something which you know full well a lot of the guys around you disagree with, and may wish to argue with, if we're all trying to unite in support our team?

 

Surely choosing your moment to say what you want to say is necessary in all positive human relationships.

 

You may well be right to chant his name, even at that moment in time (as opposed to waiting for one of the many moments when it's not likely to cause a row). Why the same logic doesn't apply to players when they royally screw up, I don't know. But when I go to a game I want to enjoy myself, sing the songs, have a laugh with the people around me. What, exactly, is it that you want from the game if you bring something up which you know could cause an argument, regardless of how strongly you believe in it?

[inckley fox]

Or, let's put it in simpler terms.

 

1. Are you aware that a significant percentage - 20%, 30%, whatever - of our fans don't think our manager is doing a good job? Or are angry with him about his attitude towards fans?

2. Do you think there is any value in a sense of solidarity among fans in supporting their team?

3. Were the people chanting Pearson's name during that game aware that people among them might disagree with them?

4. Were they aware that people might disagree with them more so than unusual because we were losing, playing badly, and there had been some criticism of the manager's decisions?

5. Were they aware that some of those people might choose to debate with them whether it was right?

6. Was there a fight?

7. Will it help to avoid a fight if we choose to sing Pearson's name at a point when people are less angry about his management?

 

Now I support him, I chant his name - but if the answer is 'yes' to the questions above (and it has to be), then it shows beyond any debate that elements of the pro-Pearson support are doing things which they know are going to antagonise those who aren't.

 

Forget whether you think they're right to feel that or not. That's totally irrelevant.

 

There is a defiance, an element of point-proving to these chants which, depending on your view, you might take to be a good thing. If you do, then that's your view and I respect it. But don't deny it's there.  

 

My view,however, is this: There is a division here, why are we so keen to widen it? Why not try to lift our players a bit more when they're doing badly rather than focus all our efforts on cheering Nige up, and winding up a section of our own support? Do we really want a fight with our own fans? 

 

It's hard not to come to the conclusion that some of you do. What is equally hard is accepting that some of you are so wrapped up in your love for the manager that you can't make sense of anybody else's opinion, such is your disdain for any opinion which contradicts your own. Even if people are very nice and polite in expressing it.

[Raj]

Right,so there was abit of a tussle between a handful of our fans out of a few thousand cos of a difference of opinions,yeah?

 

 

[C-man]

I would say that you must be on a wind up but that wouldn't give you enough credit. Until this thread I thought you were a very good poster, and to be fair, although I am at the other end of the earth in terms of even being close to half agreeing with you, at least you can write a paragraph or two.

Not having that you have been any more polite than others though and your Geert Wilders/bananas comments smack of desperation. If you are really drawing a comparison between people shouting 'One NP' and throwing bananas at black players then you need your head tested.

I have seen people say they would prefer NP stay in charge if we go down, yes. I am one of them myself (should we put up a fight and the players continue to give everything for them). That's not because I have 'blind love' for him but because I have a sense of perspective that there are not many greater options available, that he is proven to be a top manager in that league, that the whole squad (that people adored not 7 months ago) will be used to his methods and continue to play their hearts out for him. Those things would stand us in good stead of getting back to the PL and most probably quicker than a replacement would. There's logic behind these reasons but people like you continue to read the first sentence and smash the keyboard up before actually thinking that people have thought about their argument.

General singing 'One NP' is NOT bound to cause an argument from time to time. As I said in my original post, 'I wouldn't sing it in anyone's face' (unless I was pretty pissed; then there's a good chance I might be stupid enough to do so) and that remains true but the day someone tells me I can't support the manager is the day I stop going.

Besides, you continue to ignore the fact that this argument appears not to have been started by general supporting of the manager, making this a completely fruitless argument.

[Bob Hazels shorts]

The love affair with Pearson has surprised me, I can only think its from those who know no better as relatively new supporters.

 

Team selections and tactics have been right down there with Hollowhead.

 

He makes it very clear that he doesn't give a monkeys what the fans think. I find the squealing of his name embarrassing particularly while being dished up crap in the shape of hoof ball and nothing to suggest the players meet between games. 

 

We doing well I cheer, when trying and need i lift I encourage the players. I do not and never will cheer the managers name.

[Silverdaz]

The old adage 'be careful what you wish for' may well come true if we get relegated then the people who dislike Pearson may wish he was still here when we get a duff foreign mananger

[Corky]

The love affair with Pearson has surprised me, I can only think its from those who know no better as relatively new supporters.

 

Team selections and tactics have been right down there with Hollowhead.

 

He makes it very clear that he doesn't give a monkeys what the fans think. I find the squealing of his name embarrassing particularly while being dished up crap in the shape of hoof ball and nothing to suggest the players meet between games. 

 

We doing well I cheer, when trying and need i lift I encourage the players. I do not and never will cheer the managers name.

 

No manager gives a toss about what the fans think.

[cjslcfc]

No manager gives a toss about what the fans think.

 

Absolutely right. 

 

In reality, no manager cares who the fans think should play or what formation the fans think he should play. That's why he's the manager and paid to make decisions. Yes, fans have every right to their own opinion about these things but at the end of the day the manager makes the decisions and it's best that he doesn't let fans influence his decisions in any way.

[BigMicky]

The love affair with Pearson has surprised me, I can only think its from those who know no better as relatively new supporters.

Team selections and tactics have been right down there with Hollowhead.

He makes it very clear that he doesn't give a monkeys what the fans think. I find the squealing of his name embarrassing particularly while being dished up crap in the shape of hoof ball and nothing to suggest the players meet between games.

We doing well I cheer, when trying and need i lift I encourage the players. I do not and never will cheer the managers name.

So you didn't cheer O'Neil in the glory years or Pearson last year?

[Lasty]

I find it poor form from our 'supporters' that we can't respect opinions a bit more. I don't think Pearson is doing a particularly good job at present, but I wouldn't want to smash the face in of anyone who argues otherwise.

 

From what I can make out, it's the Pearsonites that are making all the threats anyway, most probably because they're running out of valid arguments to support his performance this season.

 

Respect, people. It's football, not war. 

[ARTY_FOX]

Can it just not be that if you don't want to sing one nigel pearson, then don't sing it?

[Mike Oxlong]

The love affair with Pearson has surprised me, I can only think its from those who know no better as relatively new supporters.

 

Team selections and tactics have been right down there with Hollowhead.

 

He makes it very clear that he doesn't give a monkeys what the fans think. I find the squealing of his name embarrassing particularly while being dished up crap in the shape of hoof ball and nothing to suggest the players meet between games. 

 

We doing well I cheer, when trying and need i lift I encourage the players. I do not and never will cheer the managers name.

Would you be interested in my new line of "Je suis Nigel" t-shirts?

Would go well with your Bob Hazell shorts.

[C-man]

From what I can make out, it's the Pearsonites that are making all the threats anyway, most probably because they're running out of valid arguments to support his performance this season.

How have you come to that conclusion? From what I see it was the 'Pearsonista' who was assaulted for telling a 'Pearsonoutta' that his basis for wanting Pearson gone was embarrassing. Which it was. Because it was down to the fact we played one up front at home against Cardiff in the play off. In his first spell. Almost 5 years ago. When Howard was suspended and Fryatt injured.

[HEGGSY]

How have you come to that conclusion? From what I see it was the 'Pearsonista' who was assaulted for telling a 'Pearsonoutta' that his basis for wanting Pearson gone was embarrassing. Which it was. Because it was down to the fact we played one up front at home against Cardiff in the play off. In his first spell. Almost 5 years ago. When Howard was suspended and Fryatt injured.

Is that really what was said? Jesus

[AndWhat?]

How have you come to that conclusion? From what I see it was the 'Pearsonista' who was assaulted for telling a 'Pearsonoutta' that his basis for wanting Pearson gone was embarrassing. Which it was. Because it was down to the fact we played one up front at home against Cardiff in the play off. In his first spell. Almost 5 years ago. When Howard was suspended and Fryatt injured.

That's actually laughable

[4ever and ever]

For me there are issues on both sides of the fence. I am a fan who feels Pearson is doing a poor job this season, he has assembled a squad in my opinion that should be doing better than he is but he is not utilising them properly as some of his decisions on a personnel and tactics point of view have been baffling and feel he is really struggling in this league and it at this minute in time it seems it is a step too far for him.

 

I felt he should have gone in early December. The blind faith that is shown by some quarters does irritate me and the "I would rather go down than get rid of him" to me is equally as baffling as some of player choices as surely our best chance for long term success is to stay in this league as the TV money is getting greater and greater and dropping out of it now puts us back even further, but as fans that go week in week out we are all entitled to our opinions and for it to result in fighting because of a difference of a opinion over a manager is nothing short of pathetic.

 

But what worries me and upsets me the most and I saw it on Saturday again are that some of the "Pearson Out" fans seem to revel in us doing badly and want to see us fail to be proved right. I pray that I am proved wrong and he does manage to keep us up this season, something that I feel with the squad of players we have and the other poor teams in the division we should be able to achieve. 

[Voll Blau]

For me there are issues on both sides of the fence. I am a fan who feels Pearson is doing a poor job this season, he has assembled a squad in my opinion that should be doing better than he is but he is not utilising them properly as some of his decisions on a personnel and tactics point of view have been baffling and feel he is really struggling in this league and it at this minute in time it seems it is a step too far for him.

 

I felt he should have gone in early December. The blind faith that is shown by some quarters does irritate me and the "I would rather go down than get rid of him" to me is equally as baffling as some of player choices as surely our best chance for long term success is to stay in this league as the TV money is getting greater and greater and dropping out of it now puts us back even further, but as fans that go week in week out we are all entitled to our opinions and for it to result in fighting because of a difference of a opinion over a manager is nothing short of pathetic.

 

But what worries me and upsets me the most and I saw it on Saturday again are that some of the "Pearson Out" fans seem to revel in us doing badly and want to see us fail to be proved right. I pray that I am proved wrong and he does manage to keep us up this season, something that I feel with the squad of players we have and the other poor teams in the division we should be able to achieve. 

 

That's the thing for me. It's fine for people to question his decisions and be disappointed with how we're doing this season, we all are. But at Hull there were two utter nonces next to me who moaned at every slight thing that went wrong and didn't even cheer when the final whistle went.

[inckley fox]

I would say that you must be on a wind up but that wouldn't give you enough credit. Until this thread I thought you were a very good poster, and to be fair, although I am at the other end of the earth in terms of even being close to half agreeing with you, at least you can write a paragraph or two.

Not having that you have been any more polite than others though and your Geert Wilders/bananas comments smack of desperation. If you are really drawing a comparison between people shouting 'One NP' and throwing bananas at black players then you need your head tested.

I have seen people say they would prefer NP stay in charge if we go down, yes. I am one of them myself (should we put up a fight and the players continue to give everything for them). That's not because I have 'blind love' for him but because I have a sense of perspective that there are not many greater options available, that he is proven to be a top manager in that league, that the whole squad (that people adored not 7 months ago) will be used to his methods and continue to play their hearts out for him. Those things would stand us in good stead of getting back to the PL and most probably quicker than a replacement would. There's logic behind these reasons but people like you continue to read the first sentence and smash the keyboard up before actually thinking that people have thought about their argument.

General singing 'One NP' is NOT bound to cause an argument from time to time. As I said in my original post, 'I wouldn't sing it in anyone's face' (unless I was pretty pissed; then there's a good chance I might be stupid enough to do so) and that remains true but the day someone tells me I can't support the manager is the day I stop going.

Besides, you continue to ignore the fact that this argument appears not to have been started by general supporting of the manager, making this a completely fruitless argument.

 

I'm not saying, I repeat, that you're wrong to chant his name at moments like that, I'm saying that in doing so you must know some people are going to disagree, and are likely to say so. If you weren't last week, then you definitely are this week!

 

And I definitely didn't compare people throwing bananas to chanting Pearson's name, nothing of the sort. I was pointing out that the notion that all forms of support are 'acceptable' was silly. There is a line somewhere, and a grey area somewhere before that. When you get fights as a consequence of your chants, you've got to be at least approaching the grey area.

 

I was, after all, having people accuse me of violating their 'freedom of speech', which is - itself - just a bit extreme, no? I'm not saying people can't say anything, I'm just pointing out that there are always consequences to what you say.

 

Look at it this way, we have had lots of managers in the past whose names haven't been chanted when we've been doing badly, and it would have caused a row if they had. Some of them even had prior achievements at the club to their name, and groups of fans defending them: Taylor had taken us to the top of the PL and a 13th place finish (nobody chanted his name even when we beat Derby in 2001), Adams had won promotion against all odds (nobody, and I mean nobody, was chanting his name in the Villa home game in 2004, though plenty of people started chucking programmes at the pitch all of a sudden), Kelly had turned the side around, lifted them out of the drop zone and taken them to a mid-table finish (I don't think his name was chanted during his past six months), Sven had done something similar, albeit with a silly budget, he had plenty of defenders but people didn't chant his name against Birmingham or Millwall. 

 

I'd argue that Pearson's past achievements are significantly greater than those managers', but they were still our managers, and there was a point in time when it seemed a little bit silly, and a little bit counter-productive to sing their names (if we'd have turned on those managers a little bit sooner, maybe we'd have been rid of them a bit sooner - and a lot, lot better off). Especially when they were doing especially badly. The 'Pearson Out' fans, if we want to lump all of them into one group, probably believe that we're in a similar position with this manager.

 

So the idea of not wanting to chant your manager's name, or of it not necessarily being a sensible thing to do, isn't so extraordinary. We should know better than to say 'it's always right to be getting behind your manager'.

 

My view is that I think there are other things to chant at moments like that which won't cause arguments, and there will be plenty of less contentious moments when we can chant his name. I value solidarity among fans, I want to get along with my fellow supporters even if their views are different, and I appreciate that he's contributed himself to alienating some of them. I don't want to provoke arguments, this clearly will provoke an argument, so why not just wait for another of those many moments when we will be able to chant his name?

 

If your view is that it's freedom of speech, then you have to accept the consequences. If your view is that you're in the right so you can chant his name whenever you want, then you have to accept that people will disagree with you. If you take the view that you should always get behind your manager, then there are clearly plenty of exceptions.

 

It might be worth remembering that, if we are fighting a war, then it's against our opponents - not our fans, nor our manager - and it's to stay in the Premier League.

[Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot]

This thread just highlights why some of our fans fight themselves. A proportion of our fanbase is thick as shit.

[inckley fox]

That's the thing for me. It's fine for people to question his decisions and be disappointed with how we're doing this season, we all are. But at Hull there were two utter nonces next to me who moaned at every slight thing that went wrong and didn't even cheer when the final whistle went.

 

Nonces? I'm surprised at that. Nonce-sense, clearly.

 

Yes, there probably are people who get some enjoyment out of us losing because they want to see the manager up against the ropes. That's obviously even worse than prioritising your manager ahead of your team, which some people's views have suggested (as I said before 'I'd rather go down with Pearson than stay up without him' is still as daft an opinion as I've come across, and it's surfaced more than once).

 

 

Can it just not be that if you don't want to sing one nigel pearson, then don't sing it?

 

I think people have the right to argue the point if they want. I'm of the opinion that he is the right man at the moment, but I know there's a strong argument that he isn't, and that we probably aren't wise to be singing his name when things are going wrong. Purely because I don't want to create divisions between the fans, and I'd prefer us all to sing together, I take the view that - at those moments - it's best to sing something else. Because, now more than before, we know that chant is going to cause arguments if we sing it at certain points - so why do we want that to happen, whether those arguing are right or wrong? Just wait a week!

 

It's like that row you had once with your missus about whether or not you get a new kitchen fitted. If she waits until everyone's feeling a bit flush, it's less likely to cause a row than bringing it up when you've just lost your job.