Claudio

[Cadno'r Cymoedd]

We had a situation in Welsh rugby back in 2005 when we had won the Grand Slam for the first time in over 25 years with the coach Mike Ruddock coming in and leading the team to triumph in his first season.

 

He quit after the first game the following season with some senior players including the captain stupidly resenting the attention and plaudits he had got as a result and not playing for him. They called him the bus because he wasn't a 'coach' in their eyes unhappy he had changed the playing style, despite success, and his approach to coaching sessions. Some also felt much of the basis for winning the GS was the previous set-up and them as players doing what they wanted on the field.

 

I would hope very much we have no parallels here. Ranieri is a gent. I doubt it to be honest but I mention it to highlight success can be an odd thing perhaps even subconsciously.

[john ridley]

19 hours ago, foxes_rule1978 said:

Ranieri in terms of personality and how he conducts himself is everything the owners want, add the fact he won us the league, it will take a bit more than what has happened for him to get the boot. 5 points clear, last 16 of the CL while they would expect better and be disappointed they probably don't see it has a disaster yet.

In another month it most probably will be, bottom 3 , spanked out of Europe, ten's  of millions spent on players that'll make  no difference and unrest at the KP.Trouble is it'll be  to late to change by then 

[ealingfox]

As said in other threads either we sign 3, 4 or even 5 players, or we sack him. If neither of these things happens we are down. It's not just him because some of the players are actually doggo and were raised to another level by Kante and the ghost of Big Nige, but the damage that has been done this season is criminal considering our starting point. And there's been poor management from start to today.

 

Only the lack of good alternatives makes me think we shouldn't. But as we've seen with Clement and Silva and that, there's more people out there that can do a job than we think, we might just have to give them a chance. We need fresh impetus from somewhere anyway, not impossible it could still come from a few decent signings.

[5waller5]

4 hours ago, Tuna said:

 

That's a very very worrying tweet.

 

[Cadno'r Cymoedd]

9 hours ago, Cadno'r Cymoedd said:

We had a situation in Welsh rugby back in 2005 when we had won the Grand Slam for the first time in over 25 years with the coach Mike Ruddock coming in and leading the team to triumph in his first season.

 

He quit after the first game the following season with some senior players including the captain stupidly resenting the attention and plaudits he had got as a result and not playing for him. They called him the bus because he wasn't a 'coach' in their eyes unhappy he had changed the playing style, despite success, and his approach to coaching sessions. Some also felt much of the basis for winning the GS was the previous set-up and them as players doing what they wanted on the field.

 

I would hope very much we have no parallels here. Ranieri is a gent. I doubt it to be honest but I mention it to highlight success can be an odd thing perhaps even subconsciously.

Quick follow-up to my post over as I forgot to add. The players sank without the coach who had kept it simple and allowed them to play with confidence to their strengths. By undermining him and believing their own hype, it went pear shaped. It took the next but one coach, a disciplinarian and some new players to revive it all. 

 

As I said, hope there are no parallels and may very well not be despite that tweet.

[Col city fan]

5 hours ago, 5waller5 said:

That's a very very worrying tweet.

 

Yes it is.

It does back up what we saw on the pitch yesterday.

A confused bunch of players, not knowing the game plan AND not really looking bothered either. 

I think the Thais need to be looking at this now very seriously. However, I doubt they will do.

[NeilLCFC]

6 hours ago, 5waller5 said:

That's a very very worrying tweet.

 

It is very worrying but I'm not surprised when look back at the way we've played since pre season. 

 

People can say want they want about the players and their big contracts going to their head etc, but Walsh leaving was another indication that on and off field staff aren't buying into Claudio's way of doing things.

[chicagofox]

6 hours ago, 5waller5 said:

That's a very very worrying tweet.

 

No it's just some twat posting idle speculation.

[Harry - LCFC]

It does bemuse me when people say "he's taking us down" with such certainty when we're five points ahead of 18th placed Crystal Palace. No excuses here, we've performed pretty disgracefully this season, but certainties for relegation we are not.

[desertfox2]

A comedown was expected as it was impossible to keep up the levels of performance from last season but what's really worrying is:

 

Transfer business: Our signings just haven't been good enough. Some may come good, But we have signed only 1 player that is possibly better than what we had and that's Slimani. But we aren't even set up to get the best from him. We are near the end of the transfer window and haven't improved our defence at all.

 

The players look lost. Against Chelsea when we switched formation nobody seemed to know what had happened. Yesterday Mendy is not a left-sided midfielder anyone can see that.

 

The fight has gone. We just seem to be resigned to defeat way too often. There is nobody to grab a game by the neck want to get on the ball and with the quality to turn a match.

 

Our planning is poor.

 

Worrying times. The players are there but we seem unwilling to pay for them and as each week passes it looks less and less likely that we would attract the kind of players that would improve us. Big money bids for Sigurdsson (We need a creative spark), Nastasic and maybe even Sakho and we would shoot up the league and probably give Sevilla a good game with those. Bite the bullet let's pay the money surely we can afford it. Or we will get sucked into a relegation battle if we stick with what we have as we look like a team that is shot of confidence. The only way I can see to add belief to the squad is to buy some real top class players with proven premier league pedigree.

[Guest bennytwohats]

7 minutes ago, Harry - LCFC said:

It does bemuse me when people say "he's taking us down" with such certainty when we're five points ahead of 18th placed Crystal Palace. No excuses here, we've performed pretty disgracefully this season, but certainties for relegation we are not.

I'm glad someone else has said this. It's embarrassing to see some of you blow the current predicament out of proportion. We are not cut adrift in 20th place.

 

He has been crucified for sticking with 442, then crucified for switching the system to the same ones you lot have been crying out for all season. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't springs to mind.

 

He has earned the right to see out this January window and have a couple of weeks at least to bed in any new players. If he doesn't turn things around after then, then it would be sensible to start considering options. Before that, given what he has done for us, and the fact that we are still 5 points clear, this thread is an embarrassment to the club and the fans.

[roblcfc84]

I think there are serious problems off the pitch - something just isn't right behind the scenes. Tactics, training, ability are all major factors in the performance of a football team - but there is a serious lack of effort or unity from what I've seen. DD did not look a happy bunny yesterday, his body language spoke volumes - could be his position but a happy player will try and get on with it. Vardy doesn't look interested, I acknowledge he's not had a lot to feed off but last year he created a lot of his own chances. Maybe the new signings haven't integrated, maybe once the euphoria of last had subsided certain people weren't pulling in the same direction as the rest - it's all speculation. But I'm certain that there is discontentment at the club.

[The Doctor]

1 hour ago, bennytwohats said:

I'm glad someone else has said this. It's embarrassing to see some of you blow the current predicament out of proportion. We are not cut adrift in 20th place.

 

He has been crucified for sticking with 442, then crucified for switching the system to the same ones you lot have been crying out for all season. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't springs to mind.

 

He has earned the right to see out this January window and have a couple of weeks at least to bed in any new players. If he doesn't turn things around after then, then it would be sensible to start considering options. Before that, given what he has done for us, and the fact that we are still 5 points clear, this thread is an embarrassment to the club and the fans.

Far less than the performances though. Generally this forum has been pretty patient with managers - there was still a loud pro-Pearson voice until that home game v hull. If the was at least the effort and application out there this would be a quiet murmur at most, but instead we're turning up each week and offering about as much of a challenge as a set of traffic cones.

[lgfualol]

12 hours ago, Tuna said:

 

Players can **** off if this is the case. How about put some effort in for the manager that made your careers relevant, no matter if you're "not convinced".

[Guest bennytwohats]

1 hour ago, The Doctor said:

Far less than the performances though. Generally this forum has been pretty patient with managers - there was still a loud pro-Pearson voice until that home game v hull. If the was at least the effort and application out there this would be a quiet murmur at most, but instead we're turning up each week and offering about as much of a challenge as a set of traffic cones.

Good old English Nige Pearson? Of course there was. But there has been a xenophobic undertone of resentment towards Ranieri from the moment he was appointed. That only subsided with an unprecedented run of results and success. It's no surprise to see the daggers came back out at the first sign of discontent. Now I'm not saying that is everyone here, but I do think it is factor. It has been said, but Pearson got significantly more patience despite bringing nowhere near the same success, why?

 

I don't want to suggest that everyone who has lost patience has such motivations, or that there aren't issues, because clearly they are. But the strength of feeling that a manager who won the Premier League for us should be sacked while we are still in the FA cup, in the Champions League last 16, and still in a league position that would have been in line with the targets he was set when he was appointed, should be sacked at this moment in time leaves a massively sour taste with me.

 

Im fairly sure that taking the decision to sack Ranieir now would brand us a much bigger laughing stock than any of the performances have so far. This whole thread stinks.

 

Give him the rest of this window to fix the issues (and a couple of weeks to try and bed those players in) before you all start calling for his head, it's the absolute minimum the man deserves from us.

[The Doctor]

7 minutes ago, bennytwohats said:

Good old English Nige Pearson? Of course there was. But there has been a xenophobic undertone of resentment towards Ranieri from the moment he was appointed. That only subsided with an unprecedented run of results and success. It's no surprise to see the daggers came back out at the first sign of discontent. Now I'm not saying that is everyone here, but I do think it is factor. It has been said, but Pearson got significantly more patience despite bringing nowhere near the same success, why?

 

I don't want to suggest that anyone who has lost patience has such motivations, or that there aren't issues, because clearly they are. But the strength of feeling that a manager who won the Premier League for us should be sacked while we are still in the FA cup, in the Champions League last 16, and still in a league position that would have been in line with the targets he was set when he was appointed, should be sacked at this moment in time leaves a massively sour taste with me.

 

Im fairly sure that taking the decision to sack Ranieir now would brand us a much bigger laughing stock than any of the performances have so far. This whole thread stinks.

 

Give him the rest of this window to fix the issues (and a couple of weeks to try and bed those players in) before you all start calling for his head, it's the absolute minimum the man deserves from us.

So anyone who thinks that this is shit is a xenophobe

 

Grow up - this isn't xenophobia, this is frustration and anger that the players don't even seem to care any more and Ranieri doesn't seem able to address that. He's the best manager I've seen, and indeed the only one I've seen who had us doing well in this league (6 when MON left); I'd be gutted if this is how the fairytale ends, but at the moment it seems like the best ending we could hope for.

[Guest bennytwohats]

7 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

So anyone who thinks that this is shit is a xenophobe

 

Grow up - this isn't xenophobia, this is frustration and anger that the players don't even seem to care any more and Ranieri doesn't seem able to address that. He's the best manager I've seen, and indeed the only one I've seen who had us doing well in this league (6 when MON left); I'd be gutted if this is how the fairytale ends, but at the moment it seems like the best ending we could hope for.

Did you not see, or choose to completely ignore, the bit where I said I don't think this applies to everyone?

 

Grow up? I feel like I'm of very few people viewing this topic without completely throwing their toys out of the pram with an overhyped sense of expectation of where our club now is after a single season of success.

[The Doctor]

Just now, bennytwohats said:

Did you not see, or choose to completely ignore, the bit where I said I don't think this applies to anyone?

 

Grow up? I feel like I'm of very few people viewing this topic without completely throwing their toys out of the pram with an overhyped sense of expectation of where our club now is after a single season of success.

Saying "I'm not suggesting that" after writing an entire paragraph about how it is the case fools no-one.

 

Absolute bollocks. My expectations this season were a cup run and taking steps to establish ourselves as a comfortable midtable team capable of pushing into Europe with a decent season - a West ham or a Southampton essentially; the point we'd be looking at building to even if last season didn't happen. And those are still achievable, but when the players won't do so much as to at least put in the hard yards, something has to change. 

[Chocolate Teapot]

Been saying this for a while if you've read my posts, big divide between the old guard and the new, and it's not showing signs of healing.

[Kitchandro]

44 minutes ago, lgfualol said:

Players can **** off if this is the case. How about put some effort in for the manager that made your careers relevant, no matter if you're "not convinced".

Too right.

 

That sort of thing makes me not want to sack Claudio purely out of principle.

 

Why should we - just so we can go back to worshipping these lazy, selfish bastards whilst a decent bloke gets disgraced?

[Vestan Pance]

26 minutes ago, bennytwohats said:

Good old English Nige Pearson? Of course there was. But there has been a xenophobic undertone of resentment towards Ranieri from the moment he was appointed. That only subsided with an unprecedented run of results and success. It's no surprise to see the daggers came back out at the first sign of discontent. Now I'm not saying that is everyone here, but I do think it is factor. It has been said, but Pearson got significantly more patience despite bringing nowhere near the same success, why?

 

I don't want to suggest that anyone who has lost patience has such motivations, or that there aren't issues, because clearly they are. But the strength of feeling that a manager who won the Premier League for us should be sacked while we are still in the FA cup, in the Champions League last 16, and still in a league position that would have been in line with the targets he was set when he was appointed, should be sacked at this moment in time leaves a massively sour taste with me.

 

Im fairly sure that taking the decision to sack Ranieir now would brand us a much bigger laughing stock than any of the performances have so far. This whole thread stinks.

 

Give him the rest of this window to fix the issues (and a couple of weeks to try and bed those players in) before you all start calling for his head, it's the absolute minimum the man deserves from us.

Just a little bit patronising.

[Guest bennytwohats]

4 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

Saying "I'm not suggesting that" after writing an entire paragraph about how it is the case fools no-one.

 

Absolute bollocks. My expectations this season were a cup run and taking steps to establish ourselves as a comfortable midtable team capable of pushing into Europe with a decent season - a West ham or a Southampton essentially; the point we'd be looking at building to even if last season didn't happen. And those are still achievable, but when the players won't do so much as to at least put in the hard yards, something has to change. 

See the correction. Don't take it personally, I've acknowledged that there are clearly issues that need fixing and that people have every right to be concerned. I just don't think they add up to the strength of the feeling of wanting him sacked - that's not a comment on the views any one person in particular holds, so I don't know why you're attacking me for it. Personally I think it's pretty ****ing obvious that there is a largely xenophobic attitude that is prevalent on these forums and I have talked about that in the past.

 

That aside your expectations are similar to mine and we are only a couple of league wins away from being on track, at least as far as the results are concerned. We both agree that the performances are not there though right now. Can you not see in light of that that the strength of feeling on here is slightly blown out of proportion?

[RonnieTodger]

2 hours ago, Harry - LCFC said:

It does bemuse me when people say "he's taking us down" with such certainty when we're five points ahead of 18th placed Crystal Palace. No excuses here, we've performed pretty disgracefully this season, but certainties for relegation we are not.

Not certainties, but nobody is playing as badly as we are right now. This will carry on for the remainder of the season and it won't take long for teams to overtake us.

Palace gave Everton half a game and Remy looked decent. 

Swansea just won at Liverpool.

Hull turned up at Stamford bridge and gave them a test.

We can't do any of these.

[MC Prussian]

59 minutes ago, bennytwohats said:

Good old English Nige Pearson? Of course there was. But there has been a xenophobic undertone of resentment towards Ranieri from the moment he was appointed. That only subsided with an unprecedented run of results and success. It's no surprise to see the daggers came back out at the first sign of discontent. Now I'm not saying that is everyone here, but I do think it is factor. It has been said, but Pearson got significantly more patience despite bringing nowhere near the same success, why?

 

I don't want to suggest that anyone who has lost patience has such motivations, or that there aren't issues, because clearly they are. But the strength of feeling that a manager who won the Premier League for us should be sacked while we are still in the FA cup, in the Champions League last 16, and still in a league position that would have been in line with the targets he was set when he was appointed, should be sacked at this moment in time leaves a massively sour taste with me.

 

Im fairly sure that taking the decision to sack Ranieir now would brand us a much bigger laughing stock than any of the performances have so far. This whole thread stinks.

 

Give him the rest of this window to fix the issues (and a couple of weeks to try and bed those players in) before you all start calling for his head, it's the absolute minimum the man deserves from us.

I don't see where any alleged "xenophobic undertone of resentment" comes from.

If at all, people were poking fun at him appearing as an underwhelming choice of manager at the time (see Lineker's tweet), his then-recent failures on an international level, his likeable grandpa demeanour as well as his somewhat sympathetic grasp of English.

Those were all points about his persona, not his nationality or origin.

 

It is only logical that the manager is the first one to be put under scrutiny when things don't work well, especially when there's a series of (really) bad results, coupled with bad performances from so-called football pros.

 

And to be fair, we have already become a laughing stock to some extent - from what I gather, the drop in quality and league position in the space of six months of football is unprecedented in the history of English football.

 

But I'd be harsh to sack him now because he can still prove his worth in the Champions League and the FA Cup.

We won't go down in the league, but continue to flirt with the relegation zone. He should be given until the summer to see how our (read: his) midfield with Mendy, Ndidi and Amartey pans out and whether Huth, Morgan, Fuchs and Okazaki still have what it takes.

The more experienced players need a good rollicking in order to rediscover their motivation on the pitch - if Ranieri fails there, he should retire comes May/June.

Sacking him now, with only one week to go in the January transfer window, would be rather counterproductive.

[filbertway]

It's just dawned on me that in nearly 4 transfer windows Claudio has not signed a defender that's even close to replacing any of our 3 very limited defenders. Not including Fuchs as I believe he was signed by Pearson.