Gray - considering future

[Ric Flair]

Everton can fcuk right off.

[WigstonWanderer]

1 hour ago, UPinCarolina said:

Victim blaming is also something the post-WWII generation around here does exceptionally well, whilst whinging on about the fact that the world is "too politically correct" and voting for windbags like Donald Trump. Surely the story in the UK is different, but your argument is awfully similar.

Apparently pointing out the very real flaws in a society is 'entitlement' now. You equate that to an 'attitude' - see, it's a funny thing. If we were so 'entitled' as you say, why would we be earning more and higher degrees, working longer hours for less money, and paying more adjusted for inflation for everything from housing to healthcare?

Say what you will about Gray but slandering your whole generation with nonsensical meritocratic talk when your lot in the UK as a millennial, comparatively speaking, is markedly better.

Your anger appears, to this outsider, to be misplaced. It isn't the post war generation that is screwing you over, it appears to be the crazy, corrupt, crony-capitalist system that Americans have allowed to infest their lives.

 

The resulting concentration of wealth is what you're up against, where vested interests are allowed to game the system at the expense of ordinary working folk.

[Scotch]

I don't for one minute believe that he has DEMANDED a starting spot. If there is anything in this at all, it's more than likely to be that he's said he wants to speak to the club and find out their plans for him whilst there is interested in him which is completely understandable. I believe he will get more game time this year wether Mahrez goes or not and i'm confident Shakey will convince him of this.

 

I don't doubt for a second that he's pissed off with the lack of first team football he's gotten so far but if he wasn't pissed off, I wouldn't want him here. I want players who want to play not ones who are happy to sit and collect a wage. 

 

He will stay, he will play more and he will develop into a very good player for us. I have no doubt 

[Harry96]

Doesn't make sense

he won't start there.

[UPinCarolina]

Just now, WigstonWanderer said:

Your anger appears, to this outsider, to be misplaced. It isn't the post war generation that is screwing you over, it appears to be the crazy, corrupt, crony-capitalist system that Americans have allowed to infest their lives.

 

The resulting concentration of wealth is what you're up against, where vested interests are allowed to game the system at the expense of ordinary working folk.

I'm with you 100%. As I see it, that generation reaped the benefits of the post-WWII bi-polar world; the American hegemonic empire. They don't recognize or understand that things aren't like that anymore. They've been tricked into believing in the reality of the 'American dream' mythology. This same generation (generalizing) has shockingly misplaced attitudes on things like systemic racism, religion, etc. I would argue that the self-centered nature of the children of the 'Greatest Generation' is on display in the way that they vote, view the world, etc. They fail to see the danger of increasing wealth inequality and cling to the meritocratic explanation rather than accepting that there are flaws in the system.

[SheppyFox]

Gray has to appreciate, he really isn't anything other than a prospect at the minute, he's scored a couple of good goals.

[Wymsey]

If he improves his decision-making processing/technique, then he'd be a real asset with the pace (and flair) he has.

He has often been hit-and-miss with the first part, like Mahrez at times, greedily shooting instead of giving the ball to others who were in better positions.

[Molson Canadian]

From Skysports

 

SHAKESPEARE'S GRAY ADVICE

Craig Shakespeare says Demarai Gray has a future at Leicester City amid interest from Premier League rivals Everton.

 

Sky sources understand Gray is an Everton target, but Shakespeare said Gray needs to remain patient, telling Sky Sports News HQ: "He's definitely still wanted. He's a player with great potential.

 

"I've had numerous conversations over the last four months with Demarai about being patient. I understand that sometimes that can just be words and they need to playing but he has a big future to be played here."

[HoustonFox]

He's 20 FFS and also not better than the starters we have.  If Riyad goes, he might get a chance as LM with Marc on right. He looked ok but still very greedy in the U21s tournament.  

 

Big test of Shakey's squad management skills already.  Less games this season and less opportunity to rotate and at the moment, it's a much bigger squad with two new signings in (only one out so far?) and James, Barnes and Lawrence coming back from successful loans.  

[Claridge]

3 hours ago, Harry96 said:

Doesn't make sense

he won't start there.

Hope he doesn't start for us either,gray for mahrez is a depressing thought.same as signing schlupp back from palace to replace mahrez. Headless chickens replacing a golden eagle

[Thracian]

4 hours ago, Foxy_Bear said:

I don't for one minute believe that he has DEMANDED a starting spot. If there is anything in this at all, it's more than likely to be that he's said he wants to speak to the club and find out their plans for him whilst there is interested in him which is completely understandable. I believe he will get more game time this year wether Mahrez goes or not and i'm confident Shakey will convince him of this.

 

I don't doubt for a second that he's pissed off with the lack of first team football he's gotten so far but if he wasn't pissed off, I wouldn't want him here. I want players who want to play not ones who are happy to sit and collect a wage. 

 

He will stay, he will play more and he will develop into a very good player for us. I have no doubt 

I'm not at all sure he will get more game time - or make enough of it if he does. 

If I were his manager I'd be seriously cheesed off with his public pressurising.

 

[Thracian]

15 minutes ago, Claridge said:

Hope he doesn't start for us either,gray for mahrez is a depressing thought.same as signing schlupp back from palace to replace mahrez. Headless chickens replacing a golden eagle

Harsh but quite possibly true. 

[Scotch]

7 minutes ago, Thracian said:

I'm not at all sure he will get more game time - or make enough of it if he does. 

If I were his manager I'd be seriously cheesed off with public pressurising.

 

On the field, his biggest issue is his final decision making. He makes the wrong choices too often and that what let's him down. Up until our premiership winning year, the exact same thing could be said for mahrez. The only way this gets better is game time and I believe we need to give it to him. 

 

He's been fairly impressive in glimpses for us and for International -21s. We need to give him a chance otherwise, why would any young player consider us if they aren't going to start regardless of what they do. 

 

He is a bit media happy which I agree isn't ideal but that's the modern game and modern managers need to accept this and deal with it. 

[Thracian]

1 hour ago, Foxy_Bear said:

On the field, his biggest issue is his final decision making. He makes the wrong choices too often and that what let's him down. Up until our championship winning year, the exact same thing could be said for mahrez. The only way this gets better is game time and I believe we need to give it to him. 

 

He's been fairly impressive in glimpses for us and for International -21s. We need to give him a chance otherwise, why would any young player consider us if they aren't going to start regardless of what they do. 

 

He is a bit media happy which I agree isn't ideal but that's the modern game and modern managers need to accept this and deal with it. 

Regardless of what they do? What in his time here has Gray done - on a consistent basis - to make him stand out among our squad and to therefore deserve privileged consideration ?  

 

And why would any manager in the modern game, or any other, have to accept his using the media to promote his views? 

 

Where the hell would our manager be if every player feeling sorry for himself suddenly started promoting their cause through the media? 

 

Because if they did, a great many players in our first team squad could make a stronger case for himself than Gray - in terms of service already rendered and their proven value, respect for the management and consideration for fellow team members,  

 

For me Gray, in taking his troubles outside the dressing room,  has shown himself to have no code.    

 

Shakespeare seems a fair, kind and genuinely sympathetic sort of bloke which may mean Gray gets forgiven and I've no view on that. But he shouldn't count on it because there's many a manager would metaphorically forget he existed...and would be checking the availability of wingers as we speak.

 

You ask why any young player would consider us, based on Gray's campaigning. Well there's lots who have done and I don't see there'd be many managers at other Premiership clubs who'd be offering "chances" to every talented youngster who did as little as Gray's done so far.

 

The Under 21 standard is little or no better than non-league football of the kind played by Nuneaton Borough, Ilkeston or Kidderminster...the sort of nothing football (in the great scheme of things) which I played as a teenager. It's about as far removed from Premiership football as the North Pole from the South. 

 

Gray is a promising talent. One of many at our own club let alone in the wide world beyond.  And right now he needs to shut up and learn which, I believe, is pretty much what the manager has suggested, for all that he should never have needed to.

 

You talk about Gray's "big issue" as if decision-making is his only flaw. It isn't. How many times have you seen him work flat out for our club for more than 20/25 minutes? 

 

Think about Chilwell's involvement in good times and bad. He's always there, always fighting for the cause, always trying to help his team-mates and to make a difference even when he's made a mistake or playing less than his best.               

 

I've seen moments of magic from Gray and been as thrilled as the next man but they're just moments, So often he fades like a spent firework and that's not about being given a chance, it's about attitude and commitment to the cause.

 

And all this with what looks like a wonderful situation is developing around him.

 

Several good players already signed or supposedly as good as signed and one of them talking about having joined due to the ambition of the club.

 

Yet, instead of simply committing to the cause and doing himself some justice, Gray gets himself wound up in the sort of sideplay that's not likely to impress anyone. I'd hope he learns but am not convinced.   

        

 

  

 

  

[Bamba's Babes]

This guy has gone from someone I was excited to watch play every week to a bleeding pest.

 

If I see another sand timer...

[funkyrobot]

In the U21's he scored a couple of good goals but especially against Germany, he faded badly and was subbed. For someone who expects to start for a top premier league club like us, his overall performances fell short. Don't forget he was on the bench for the U21's at the start of the tournament and got his starts when the two 1st choice strikers were rested (Abraham) or injured (Redmond.) He needs to reel it in, get his head down and make sure when he does get his chances he shows that he is vital to the team, both by positively influencing the game and through a much increased work ethic. 

[foxinsox]

5 minutes ago, funkyrobot said:

In the U21's he scored a couple of good goals but especially against Germany, he faded badly and was subbed. For someone who expects to start for a top premier league club like us, his overall performances fell short. Don't forget he was on the bench for the U21's at the start of the tournament and got his starts when the two 1st choice strikers were rested (Abraham) or injured (Redmond.) He needs to reel it in, get his head down and make sure when he does get his chances he shows that he is vital to the team, both by positively influencing the game and through a much increased work ethic. 

We have certainly seen some class from Gray, but also on field selfishness and tactical naivety. I would start him over Mahrez at present, but partly to encourage them both. Gray deserves the chance and Mahrez needs some humble pie. 

 

 

[Buce]

On ‎07‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 11:15, psychonaut said:

Gray is typical of the millennial generation of which I am a part (and I am generalising) There is a backwards upside down attitude to life where you reap what you sow before you sow it. There seems to be a disconnect between hard work and dedication and reward, an entitlement, and if I don't get it well toys will be thrown and protests made. Gray should realise that just because he's a young gifted footballer with a promising career that promise means nothing without hard work, patience and a willingness to carve his own destiny and truly earn the right to a regular position in the first 11. From what I've seen he hasn't properly earned this right just yet and has been given no less opportunity to do so than any other player looking to break into the starting line up.

 

On ‎07‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 13:21, UPinCarolina said:

As another millenial, spare me this bullshit.

 

The world is not a meritocracy and in the United States, my wages have been stagnant for 30 years, my healthcare costs are higher, and my university education has quadrupled in price since my birth day. There aren't even really expectations of pensions being around when I age due to the fact that the *entitled* post-WWII generation has been sucking up all the funds while pissing on my generation with nonsense like this. The same generation who created participation trophies, refuse to pay enough taxes to fund pensions, don't believe in global warming, and try to tell me that I can work summers to pay for university. 

 

We have more degrees, pay more for our education out of pocket, work longer hours and have less chance of retiring than our parents did. This idea of "entitlement" is complete nonsense.

 

On ‎07‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 14:13, psychonaut said:

your post validates mine - it reeks of entitlement and a sour victim mentality! I was talking about an attitude not the objective state of the world but as is always the case you jump to the default millennial response. Victim. You have no idea of the level of poverty post war, especially in the UK, comparative to today the materialistic quality of life would equate to some of the most poverty stricken areas in the world. You probably see what they have now and you're envious, you are picking out all the negative things wrong with the current state of affairs to affirm and validate your hard done by perspective. Just what would have you done if you were a part of the previous generation? You speak like it's their fault, have some grand agenda and don't give a fvck. This is off topic now - I was merely associating an attitude gray appears to have with what I've witnessed many times in his and my generation.

 

 

On ‎07‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 14:24, UPinCarolina said:

Victim blaming is also something the post-WWII generation around here does exceptionally well, whilst whinging on about the fact that the world is "too politically correct" and voting for windbags like Donald Trump. Surely the story in the UK is different, but your argument is awfully similar.

Apparently pointing out the very real flaws in a society is 'entitlement' now. You equate that to an 'attitude' - see, it's a funny thing. If we were so 'entitled' as you say, why would we be earning more and higher degrees, working longer hours for less money, and paying more adjusted for inflation for everything from housing to healthcare?

Say what you will about Gray but slandering your whole generation with nonsensical meritocratic talk when your lot in the UK as a millennial, comparatively speaking, is markedly better.

 

On ‎07‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 15:30, WigstonWanderer said:

Your anger appears, to this outsider, to be misplaced. It isn't the post war generation that is screwing you over, it appears to be the crazy, corrupt, crony-capitalist system that Americans have allowed to infest their lives.

 

The resulting concentration of wealth is what you're up against, where vested interests are allowed to game the system at the expense of ordinary working folk.

 

No offence, guys, but I come on here to read transfer news and get a break from politics.

 

You'd be more than welcome to espouse your views in General Chat:

 

https://www.foxestalk.co.uk/topic/112529-politics-thread-encompassing-brexit-21-june-2017-onwards/?page=57#comment-4368112

 

 

[funkyrobot]

4 minutes ago, foxinsox said:

We have certainly seen some class from Gray, but also on field selfishness and tactical naivety. I would start him over Mahrez at present, but partly to encourage them both. Gray deserves the chance and Mahrez needs some humble pie. 

 

 

Yeh I'm not entirely against this idea but I'm still not convinced that Gray is yet anywhere near Mahrez's level from an ability perspective. The issue with Mahrez is simply one of commitment and yes that's certainly in doubt, there can be no doubting the lad's proven ability. The issue with Gray isn't entirely different from a commitment perspective and on top of that it's the nagging feeling in the back of my mind that what we have here is simply an overhyped English footballer who believes his own hype. He did have chances last year and he simply didn't do enough to impress his managers (or a lot of us fans) to cement a place in the 1st 11. I really hope he shuts up and lets his football do the talking this season. I was really excited when we bought him, now I'm not so sure. 

[dannythefox]

With mahrez leaving at some point in this window I'd say the lads probably rubbing his hands knowing he'll get more game time even if we bring someone in. Won't start for Everton and it's looking like there trying to unsettle him which isn't fair on him.

[themightyfin]

The lad wants to play and who knows EXATLY what he has or has not said?

And even what he has said could easily be taken out of context in the Media.

Dont believe everything you read in the papers.

My guess is has probably asked what the plans for him are and it seems Shakes has told him to get his head down and earn a place in the team.

I see nothing wrong with a young player hungry to play as big a part as he can.

He had immense talent it's clear to see but he's still a kid and learning.

Why not get behind him and be greatful he's a Leicester city player who could kick onto having a great career.

Personally I think if he hits the ground running he could have a major effect on our team this year and along with Chilwell could even force his way into the England Squad. 

Bold statements I know but let's see where he is in 12 months down the line. 

 

[Tielemans63]

I've not been on this thread for a while but from what I can ascertain Gray might be off to Everton because of his misguided belief in the American Dream.

[st albans fox]

5 minutes ago, themightyfin said:

The lad wants to play and who knows EXATLY what he has or has not said?

And even what he has said could easily be taken out of context in the Media.

Dont believe everything you read in the papers.

My guess is has probably asked what the plans for him are and it seems Shakes has told him to get his head down and earn a place in the team.

I see nothing wrong with a young player hungry to play as big a part as he can.

He had immense talent it's clear to see but he's still a kid and learning.

Why not get behind him and be greatful he's a Leicester city player who could kick onto having a great career.

Personally I think if he hits the ground running he could have a major effect on our team this year and along with Chilwell could even force his way into the England Squad. 

Bold statements I know but let's see where he is in 12 months down the line. 

 

pretty sure he is on less money that's chillers and that isn't going to be so big. 15/20k ? A lot for a twenty year old but not in the PL player context. I expect his people just want an improved contract from us for the time being. we can stick an extra year onto it aswell. If we wait until Jan and he has a good first half of the season, will cost us more to stretch his deal out. Even if he doesn't perform so well, there will still be takers out there next summer in the market. we won't be expected to up his money much above 30/35k for the time being. 

[Thracian]

45 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

pretty sure he is on less money that's chillers and that isn't going to be so big. 15/20k ? A lot for a twenty year old but not in the PL player context. I expect his people just want an improved contract from us for the time being. we can stick an extra year onto it aswell. If we wait until Jan and he has a good first half of the season, will cost us more to stretch his deal out. Even if he doesn't perform so well, there will still be takers out there next summer in the market. we won't be expected to up his money much above 30/35k for the time being. 

 

On a merit basis he'd be taking a cut as far as I'm concerned. As for the idea of playing Gray ahead of Mahrez I don't see any footballing reasons for that.

 

Shakespeare's chat with him might change the situation because if Mahrez remains adamant about leaving, but still feels angry about the provisos, Gray would be the logical replacement

 

Even then it would, presumably,  only be until we get a winger who's provenly capable of delivering consistently according to his ability for the 90 minutes football matches are played.

 

Then it would be back to  having a competitive situation and Gray facing exactly the same problems as now. Either he'll knuckle down and improve or get forgotten.

 

And he should be in no doubt about that. Becuase wherever he goes at the kind of level he so clearly aspires too, he will always have capable competition.

 

And no sensible manager's going to pay him a packet for the kind of service he's offered here so far for all that he may be capable of better .          

 

[weller54]

44 minutes ago, themightyfin said:

The lad wants to play and who knows EXATLY what he has or has not said?

And even what he has said could easily be taken out of context in the Media.

Dont believe everything you read in the papers.

My guess is has probably asked what the plans for him are and it seems Shakes has told him to get his head down and earn a place in the team.

I see nothing wrong with a young player hungry to play as big a part as he can.

He had immense talent it's clear to see but he's still a kid and learning.

Why not get behind him and be greatful he's a Leicester city player who could kick onto having a great career.

Personally I think if he hits the ground running he could have a major effect on our team this year and along with Chilwell could even force his way into the England Squad. 

Bold statements I know but let's see where he is in 12 months down the line. 

 

EXACTLY!