Outfox the Fox Posted 21 August 2017 Share Posted 21 August 2017 IF Mahrez does stay, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Gray go. A last minute, transfer deadline day move to Liverpool would be my expectation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighPeakFox Posted 21 August 2017 Share Posted 21 August 2017 1 minute ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said: I wasnt exactly clear. Though wonderful hyperbole there HP, I can see you've been reading T.S Elliot again. My point is that tactically he is a worry as he made rubbish subs in one game then was too scared to make any subs in the next. So at the moment he is showing zero tactical nous, the relevance of Ranieri being that Shakespeare has not set this team up. So we are yet to see a positive managerial move from Shakespeare. And before everyone starts saying, Athletico second half! We lost that game in the first half I've never read a word of Eliot! It isn't hyperbole to point out that in a thread about Gray, stuff about CS's management (when not pertaining directly to Gray) is irrelevant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dames Posted 21 August 2017 Share Posted 21 August 2017 1 minute ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said: Are we really still saying that? Ranieri wasnt a passengee for the title winning season. Pretty sure he called the formation I'm just pointing out the technicalities of it all. Yes he took a group of players and tactically instructed them to the greatest triumph in all of sport. However it is not his team as all but one of the players signed under his stewardship are nowhere near the starting 11 (Most of which we are trying to shift on). The team is more Shakespeares than it is Ranieri's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretPro Posted 21 August 2017 Share Posted 21 August 2017 I don't rate him all that. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotTheMarketLeader Posted 21 August 2017 Share Posted 21 August 2017 6 hours ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said: I wasnt exactly clear. Though wonderful hyperbole there HP, I can see you've been reading T.S Elliot again. My point is that tactically he is a worry as he made rubbish subs in one game then was too scared to make any subs in the next. So at the moment he is showing zero tactical nous, the relevance of Ranieri being that Shakespeare has not set this team up. So we are yet to see a positive managerial move from Shakespeare. And before everyone starts saying, Athletico second half! We lost that game in the first half This was my concern with Shakey. He was Pearson's tactician; of all the facets of the Pearson regime this was probably the only weakness! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volpeazzurro Posted 21 August 2017 Share Posted 21 August 2017 3 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said: Are we really still saying that? Ranieri wasnt a passengee for the title winning season. Pretty sure he called the formation Absolutely and it was that insightive formation that won us the title, not Pearsons. Moved Vardy into the main striker position and not Pearsons man behind or out wide. Ranieri transformed him into a record breaking scorer and England striker instead of half a dozen goals a season man, he gave him confidence and set him free. Then he played Simpson and Fuchs as a strong Italianesque defensive back line instead of Pearsons leaky wing back defence partly through recognising you can't afford both Marhez and a rampaging wingback in the same team. Remember, we only had the great escape season because Pearson and Shakey got us into that mess in the first place, departing from the passing fast moving play that won us the Championship to a cumbersome negative defensive style that we hadn't got the players to achieve. His tactics and substitutions were poor, neither arsehole or watercress whilst at the same time Pearson was acting like a pre-menstral gibbon. Pearson originally came in, sorted out the dross ala Sven, got us promoted twice and was brilliant for us for which we should be ever grateful for but ....he bit off more than he could chew in the Premiership and Ranieri was the needed and experienced successor whose genius glued the bits together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redouane Posted 21 August 2017 Share Posted 21 August 2017 Gray is a good prospect, but he is replaceable. I wouldn't lose sleep over him leaving tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlloverthefloorYesNdidi Posted 21 August 2017 Share Posted 21 August 2017 41 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said: I've never read a word of Eliot! It isn't hyperbole to point out that in a thread about Gray, stuff about CS's management (when not pertaining directly to Gray) is irrelevant! The connection is there "for all to see" though. Gray and other players' development is related to what Shakespeare does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighPeakFox Posted 21 August 2017 Share Posted 21 August 2017 Just now, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said: The connection is there though. Gray and other players' development is related to what Shakespeare does. That's fair. It isn't what you said though Anyway, I'll shut up now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlloverthefloorYesNdidi Posted 21 August 2017 Share Posted 21 August 2017 Just now, HighPeakFox said: That's fair. It isn't what you said though Anyway, I'll shut up now. Haha, sorry, I realise at least half of my thinking was going on in my head and not the comment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeGuy Posted 21 August 2017 Share Posted 21 August 2017 42 minutes ago, Outfox the Fox said: IF Mahrez does stay, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Gray go. A last minute, transfer deadline day move to Liverpool would be my expectation. What makes you think he'd gain more game time at Livepool? As far as I know the concurrence there is even harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STUHILL Posted 21 August 2017 Share Posted 21 August 2017 5 minutes ago, ZeGuy said: What makes you think he'd gain more game time at Livepool? As far as I know the concurrence there is even harder. Can't see him getting any game time at a bigger club than us. If he wants more game time, then he will have to go to a smaller Premier League club. Even then, he may not start every week. I honestly think he should give it another 6-12 months with us. One injury to Albrighton or Mahrez, and he will be starting every week. No doubt he will get 90mins tomorrow too. Hopefully he impresses. I would have thought, even his agent believes this is a decent sized club to be at right now, and perhaps is looking for a new deal. He is probably one of our lowest paid first team players. New contract and some more playing time when possible, and lets reassess in Jan/Summer and allow him to leave if he hasn't made the most of his cup/league chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 21 August 2017 Share Posted 21 August 2017 17 hours ago, Ric Flair said: Although I'm inclined to agree with you there, at what point will we be able to give Gray more game time. Either when we're chasing games or if someone badly loses form/gets an injury?! I thought when Ranieri kept bringing him on in the title winning season when we were often a goal or two up, he was very solid at keeping things simple and helping close out games. We know he can do that but the longer he struggles to cement himself in the first team the more desperate he gets to try and go solo and impress. It's tricky but he ought to get some real chances this season as we don't have that many options out wide now. I'm not having people moaning about making unnecessary subs against Arsenal and then calling for them against another team. On the day Mahrez by far and away our biggest thread so he should stay on the pitch and there is no way I'm having Gray on for Albrighton as those two don't cover enough. It's either one or the other. There will be a time and a play, that wasn't it. Let's get some points on the board and worry about blooding players when we're in the safety of midtable. We were just coming off the back of a bad turn around, I was with CS take no risks on this occasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinkenzo Posted 21 August 2017 Share Posted 21 August 2017 2 minutes ago, Babylon said: On the day Mahrez by far and away our biggest thread so he should stay on the pitch Ian Nacho's was bigger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 21 August 2017 Share Posted 21 August 2017 5 minutes ago, Walkers said: Ian Nacho's was bigger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filbertway Posted 21 August 2017 Share Posted 21 August 2017 14 minutes ago, Babylon said: I'm not having people moaning about making unnecessary subs against Arsenal and then calling for them against another team. On the day Mahrez by far and away our biggest thread so he should stay on the pitch and there is no way I'm having Gray on for Albrighton as those two don't cover enough. It's either one or the other. There will be a time and a play, that wasn't it. Let's get some points on the board and worry about blooding players when we're in the safety of midtable. We were just coming off the back of a bad turn around, I was with CS take no risks on this occasion. Ahh that classic line haha. There's always an excuse to play a weakened team or not play certain players. Not a dig at you specifically, it just always makes me laugh when people say that. There's never a perfect time to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 21 August 2017 Share Posted 21 August 2017 2 minutes ago, filbertway said: Ahh that classic line haha. There's always an excuse to play a weakened team or not play certain players. Not a dig at you specifically, it just always makes me laugh when people say that. There's never a perfect time to do it. Perfect time, no. A better time and place of course there can be. If a players on fire you don't take him off. That's essentially what people are asking for because going gung ho at that moment and taking off Albrighton would have been plain stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bald reynard Posted 21 August 2017 Share Posted 21 August 2017 3 hours ago, ZeGuy said: What makes you think he'd gain more game time at Livepool? As far as I know the concurrence there is even harder. Liverpool were interested in him a couple of months ago, but I agree, he will be even less likely to get many starts there. Another club linked with him at that time, was Bournemouth. Now I do think there's a chance he could go there (they will be able to offer regular First Team football) - again as a late Transfer Day signing (when we are sure Riyad is staying). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AjcW Posted 21 August 2017 Share Posted 21 August 2017 I feel like the majority of you must have only ever spent time with constantly happy people Are you telling me you've never encountered someone whose general demeanour is just a bit flat, a bit stand offish and generally has a bit of a mardy looking face? Yes, there are major question marks over current ability, but I can't stand all this 'shit personality' stuff based on the fact a lad you don't know and have never met hasn't smiled at the crowd as he trains! It must be crap for a young lad when the only part of football he's involved in is the shit part! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splinterdream Posted 21 August 2017 Share Posted 21 August 2017 13 hours ago, Hack said: How in G-d's name can you say it is clear Shakey doesn't like him, what silly a thing to say. The manager has a starting 11 that is settled on and until they prove him wrong that is who he should play. Does marhez or Marc deserve to be dropped for Gray? I don't think so, once we were safe at the end of the season it made sense to give starts to Gray, it's not about dropping anyone, rotation is expected at clubs and whilst players don't like not playing they should expect it at certain times and at that point we had very little to lose. Against Brighton it was also obvious at 65 minutes there was an opportunity to see what Gray could do. If it were me I would be giving Gray a start on the left against the weaker opposition at home and see how he does, Albrighton as with other first team regulars need to give way to some type of rotation if we are to give players coming through a chance, how else are they to develop otherwise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splinterdream Posted 21 August 2017 Share Posted 21 August 2017 8 hours ago, Thracian said: Or too sensible to risk a repeat of the Arsenal cave-in. Totally different though, Shakey went 4-5-1 possibly too early and failed to notice James dead on his feet but then went 4-4-2 with 10 minutes to go whilst Arsenal were pummelling us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeGuy Posted 21 August 2017 Share Posted 21 August 2017 2 minutes ago, bald reynard said: Liverpool were interested in him a couple of months ago, but I agree, he will be even less likely to get many starts there. Another club linked with him at that time, was Bournemouth. Now I do think there's a chance he could go there (they will be able to offer regular First Team football) - again as a late Transfer Day signing (when we are sure Riyad is staying). If Riyad goes, he'll be a starter. If he stays, Bournemouth could indeed offer him more game time. Didn't hear anything serious from them though, but I can be mistaken. It heavily depends on how Shakey is manages the squad and it applies to all the benchmen. I still think that he should have played more against Brighton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 21 August 2017 Share Posted 21 August 2017 12 minutes ago, splinterdream said: Totally different though, Shakey went 4-5-1 possibly too early and failed to notice James dead on his feet but then went 4-4-2 with 10 minutes to go whilst Arsenal were pummelling us Hindsight's wonderful and often ignores the full factors. Shakespeare will have remembered how we sat back and tried to beg the point we were sitting on at Arsenal last season and perhaps thought Iheanesco's potentially dangerous presence would stop some of the home defenders joining the siege.As mentioned communication wasn't the best and rarely is when you have busy pre-seasons both in terms of playing commitments and personnel coming and going. I don't deny James was struggling - King being the obvious replacement - but Mahrez was the weakest link in terms of resilience and Chilwell would have provided an answer to that problem with Vardy/Slimani and Iheanesco up front and taking turns to fulfill what they could of Shinji's role. That would have given us balance, numbers, passing ability, a worthwhile threat and no need to fall back so readily onto the edge of our penalty or to be so exposed on the flanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filbertway Posted 21 August 2017 Share Posted 21 August 2017 1 hour ago, Babylon said: Perfect time, no. A better time and place of course there can be. If a players on fire you don't take him off. That's essentially what people are asking for because going gung ho at that moment and taking off Albrighton would have been plain stupid. Which do you think is a better time than coasting 2-0 against one of the worst teams in the league? I suppose losing 4-0 at half time against Man U would probably be safer, but it does the guy no good. Last time he came on in that situation, he scored a worldie and was relagted again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 21 August 2017 Share Posted 21 August 2017 1 hour ago, filbertway said: Which do you think is a better time than coasting 2-0 against one of the worst teams in the league? I suppose losing 4-0 at half time against Man U would probably be safer, but it does the guy no good. Last time he came on in that situation, he scored a worldie and was relagted again. It would. Much safer and especially for Shakespeare who'd commendably admitted to getting it wrong at Arsenal. He wouldn't have wanted a repeat and neither would you in his shoes. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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