Name a better option than puel

[CosbehFox]

Just now, MC Prussian said:

Well, then I wonder why bringing up achievements that go waaaaay back.

 

Imagine if I were to rely on my past accolades from ten years ago when applying for a new job. Great, but what have I done in recent years, what new skillset do I bring to the table?

 

Puel was a great manager in France, but his record in the Premier League is skewed and to me, his "magic touch" seems to have vanished with it long ago.

Recent seasons ? 

 

11th and 4th with a mid sized French club. 

8th and a cup final for a mid sized English club. Looking likely to be 8th with us. 

 

So thats his achievements of the past four seasons. I name players he’s developed and got that experience. 

 

Then I see suggestions of Bielsa (yeah there’s a guy relying on past successes), Silva, Flores, Wenger. Managers whose CVs are so much poorer and rarely worked with such players as I’ve cited. 

[MC Prussian]

11 hours ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Recent seasons ? 

 

11th and 4th with a mid sized French club. 

8th and a cup final for a mid sized English club. Looking likely to be 8th with us. 

 

So thats his achievements of the past four seasons. I name players he’s developed and got that experience. 

 

Then I see suggestions of Bielsa (yeah there’s a guy relying on past successes), Silva, Flores, Wenger. Managers whose CVs are so much poorer and rarely worked with such players as I’ve cited. 

He left all the clubs he managed since Lille under questionable circumstances.

Lyon, Nice and Southampton.

 

Puel has had an image of a "difficult person" for quite a while, carrying a bad reputation with him for years, ever since he was forced out of his beloved AS Monaco:

http://www.lemonde.fr/sport/article/2013/05/18/claude-puel-la-mauvaise-reputation_3265483_3242.html

 

He apparently has a history of cashing in big-time, then trying to do things his way, with little to no regard for the club's management.

Here's some interesting comments about his departure at Lyon:

https://www.lequipe.fr/Football/Actualites/Puel-perd-en-appel/535292

 

"The results at Nice and Ben Arfa's contributions had overshadowed his blatant errors for too long" says the local rag, also citing Puel's persistence with demanding a better contact as as well as his decision to give at least one of his two sons a pro contract as a reason he fell out with the club's president:

http://www.nicematin.com/football/pourquoi-claude-puel-et-logc-nice-ont-divorce-52029

"We had two great years under Claude, and two more complicated ones."

 

We're talking about around five years where he's not achieved much with the teams he's managed (sauf his first season with Southampton, finishing 8th, but closer to 17th than to 7th).

Is Puel past his best, I wonder?

Edited 17 April 2018 by MC Prussian

[Bunyip]

4 hours ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Good point - adds more colour to the whole debate. Are the players (or some of the players) the problem? 

 

Yet the likes of Henry, Hazard, Ben Arfa, Trezeguet, Lloris have all developed under him. 

I think you are right Cardiff. If certain players go against the manager as they have in the past then it seems your doomed what ever you do.

[Chocolate Teapot]

If there is one thing that irritates me it's the 'he finished 8th with Southampton' line without any context - 6 points above 17th, and closer to 17th than 7th. 

Edited 16 April 2018 by Abrasive fox

[matty98]

Julian Nagelsmann, probably too good for us but doubt any other clubs bigger than us will take the gamble due to his age.

[Dan LCFC]

8 hours ago, 4everfox said:

Are you even a Leicester fan? This small club mentality boils my p¡ss. How are we supposed to expect anyone to perceive us as a big club when half our own fans think we're Burnley. We're not. Benitez is the current manager of Newcastle and I honestly believe that we are a better option than Newcastle in every way possible in the eyes of any manager. I think he would abandon ship if we came calling because WE ARE A BIG EUROPEAN CLUB. To become a top 6 club you must first think like one. Arsenal are on the decline, I'd like to think that we are aspiring to grab their 'spot' with both hands as a traditional big club over the next season or two. 

This is very West Ham.

[Donut]

4 hours ago, Abrasive fox said:

If there is one thing that irritates me it's the 'he finished 8th with Southampton' line without any context - 6 points above 17th, and closer to 17th than 7th. 

Love the way you make a post about "context" and then completely miss the context.

 

The context was he had his main defender Fonte angling for a move all season and finally got one in January, which was coupled with a season ending injury to Van Dijk, so both first choice centre backs were gone.

 

They then sold one of the best holding midfielders in the league in Wanyama, and one of the most exciting inside forwards in Mane. So the spine of the team was all but gone. When bigger teams come for your players, youre pretty much stuffed.

 

Add in an arduous Europa League schedule of group games, and a long run to the League Cup final which they should have won but for poor refereeing, and they had a huge season with a tiny squad.

 

Add that to the fact they were creating many chances as the stats will tell you, but had a lack of cutting edge up front, and they struggled for goals. So Puel made them a solid, dependable unit in a safe mid table position ready to build for next season.

 

The board then decided to get rid of him. A stroke of genius that stands them with a tremendous chance of getting relegated.

 

So in the CONTEXT of what he dealt with, he did a good job.

Edited 17 April 2018 by Donut

[ROB-THE-BLUE]

Marco Silva? 

[CosbehFox]

8 hours ago, Abrasive fox said:

If there is one thing that irritates me it's the 'he finished 8th with Southampton' line without any context - 6 points above 17th, and closer to 17th than 7th. 

Given the departures Southampton had that Summer, it’s stil a decent feat. Sold Mane, Pelle, Fonte and Wanyama. Van Dijk injured from January. 

[CosbehFox]

7 hours ago, matty98 said:

Julian Nagelsmann, probably too good for us but doubt any other clubs bigger than us will take the gamble due to his age.

Dortmund will

[Raw Dykes]

13 hours ago, 4everfox said:

Are you even a Leicester fan? This small club mentality boils my p¡ss. How are we supposed to expect anyone to perceive us as a big club when half our own fans think we're Burnley. We're not. Benitez is the current manager of Newcastle and I honestly believe that we are a better option than Newcastle in every way possible in the eyes of any manager. I think he would abandon ship if we came calling because WE ARE A BIG EUROPEAN CLUB. To become a top 6 club you must first think like one. Arsenal are on the decline, I'd like to think that we are aspiring to grab their 'spot' with both hands as a traditional big club over the next season or two. 

You're delusional.

[Chocolate Teapot]

6 hours ago, Donut said:

Love the way you make a post about "context" and then completely miss the context.

 

The context was he had his main defender Fonte angling for a move all season and finally got one in January, which was coupled with a season ending injury to Van Dijk, so both first choice centre backs were gone.

 

They then sold one of the best holding midfielders in the league in Wanyama, and one of the most exciting inside forwards in Mane. So the spine of the team was all but gone. When bigger teams come for your players, youre pretty much stuffed.

 

Add in an arduous Europa League schedule of group games, and a long run to the League Cup final which they should have won but for poor refereeing, and they had a huge season with a tiny squad.

 

Add that to the fact they were creating many chances as the stats will tell you, but had a lack of cutting edge up front, and they struggled for goals. So Puel made them a solid, dependable unit in a safe mid table position ready to build for next season.

 

The board then decided to get rid of him. A stroke of genius that stands them with a tremendous chance of getting relegated.

 

So in the CONTEXT of what he dealt with, he did a good job.

Don't think I've missed the context at all - just making a point that league positions can be misleading. Of course what you say is true but finishing 8th above a load of dross sides and a long way from where Southampton wanted to finish wasn't a good job for them clearly nor will it be for our owners given when they sacked Shakespeare they explicitly told the players they should be 7th.

 

How about some context for this season? We're as close to Crystal palace (16th) as we are to Burnley, and as close to Southampton as we are to Chelsea and this is with the most prolific striker outside the top 6, the best player outside the top 6 (mahrez) and two of the most promising young players (Maguire and ndidi)......But Puel has to play Danny Simpson and that's preventing us from climbing above Burnley ?

Edited 17 April 2018 by Abrasive fox

[Happy Fox]

16 minutes ago, Abrasive fox said:

Don't think I've missed the context at all - just making a point that league positions can be misleading. Of course what you say is true but finishing 8th above a load of dross sides and a long way from where Southampton wanted to finish wasn't a good job for them clearly nor will it be for our owners given when they sacked Shakespeare they explicitly told the players they should be 7th.

 

How about some context for this season? We're as close to Crystal palace (16th) as we are to Burnley, and as close to Southampton as we are to Chelsea and this is with the most prolific striker outside the top 6, the best player outside the top 6 (mahrez) and two of the most promising young players (Maguire and ndidi)......But Puel has to play Danny Simpson and that's preventing us from climbing above Burnley ?

 

Interesting Abrasive, looks like Puel’s getting the bullet then If we don’t get 7th which seems likely. Any reason why he is saying now a Top 10 finish, are the owners looking for a replacement ?

[Chocolate Teapot]

2 minutes ago, Happy Fox said:

 

Interesting Abrasive, looks like Puel’s getting the bullet then If we don’t get 7th which seems likely. Any reason why he is saying now a Top 10 finish, are the owners looking for a replacement ?

I wouldn't say definitely no, a lot will depend on the last few games. I think if we only win 1 Or don't win any he's in big big trouble. He's been very active in the media in the last week or so which would suggest to me he knows that and is trying to sell his plan.

[FLAN]

I’d love Benitez but he’s 2 points behind us with a much bigger club historically amd next to no budget. if he doesn’t stay he won’t be short of offers. 

 

 

[Happy Fox]

3 minutes ago, Abrasive fox said:

I wouldn't say definitely no, a lot will depend on the last few games. I think if we only win 1 Or don't win any he's in big big trouble. He's been very active in the media in the last week or so which would suggest to me he knows that and is trying to sell his plan.

 

We are in a catch 2 situation tbf, I can see both sides. For me this slump in form is not acceptable, it’s partly the players and also the management. But I feel Puel is more accountable he selects the side, and the intensity in our play is so lacking, why do we start games so slow what the f**k do they do in training? could have dropped Morgan for Dragovic.

 

I think the owners have every right to consider the options, if I was them I would be talking to Rafa’s agent and seeing what he wants.

 

I think we will get 1 win 2 draws and 2 losses. (5 points at the most),

 

I saw an Article a while back by John Percy that said we approached Tuchel, Ancelotti and another guy before going for Puel any truth to that?

[ZeGuy]

13 hours ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

Are those who think Rafa Benitez would come here, the same people who thought we'd get Klopp at one stage?

 

There's talk today that Rafa could replace Wenger at Arsenal, so why would he come here?

 

Sorry, I just don't think we're anywhere near a big enough draw for him... 

Also the same loons who thought we had a chance to appoint Ancelotti, Tuchel or Simeone after Shakey got the boot.

Edited 17 April 2018 by ZeGuy

[Snik-Snok]

Haven't read all the thread and so I'm not sure if he's been mentioned or not, but if we are looking at replacing Puel, I wouldn't mind trying to prise Jorge Sampaoli from the Argentina national team after the World Cup.  Not sure how long is left on his contract there but Copa America aside, he'd have nothing meaningful for another four years and may be tempted by a change.  He's got a good track record at club and international level, seems to favour an energetic attacking style and look like the sort of feisty character that we'd love.  I like the way he had his Sevilla side playing last season.  On the negative side if he was available there's no doubt that bigger clubs than us would be after him, and also the langauge barrier might be a problem initially.

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson]

If we don’t start winning at home all the long term plans will mean nothing, we’ll struggle and he’ll be gone, that’s the nature of the game.

[RonnieTodger]

So in 19 pages, we've come up with Benitez who won't come here and a few random managers wot have managed big clubs in Europe.

 

Puel in.

Edited 17 April 2018 by RonnieTodger

[MC Prussian]

32 minutes ago, RonnieTodger said:

So in 19 pages, we've come up with Benitez who won't come here and a few random managers wot have managed big clubs in Europe.

 

Puel in.

Edited the original post, I see.

 

Still, read through the thread again and tell us what's so random about the managers mentioned.

 

And there's always the left-field option... Plenty of managers will want to come here, with the working conditions and whatnot.

In the end, any appointment will remain "random" for some. Just like the case with Ranieri - or Puel. Just because they're "random" doesn't make them bad managers.

Edited 17 April 2018 by MC Prussian

[sacreblueits442]

On 4/15/2018 at 20:16, Donut said:

Youre spot on, and we dont have it.

 

Look at what Howe has built at Bournemouth. that has taken patience, its taken an acceptance of poor spells. its taken the odd thumping or mistakes from his players, and its come with almost ZERO pressure from the fans. But what he has installed is a clear philosophy for the medium term of Bournemouth.

 

We dont have any kind of philosophy. We are trying to build one, to stop looking BACKWARDS all the time. Lets go BACK to Pearson, lets go BACK to old tactics, BACK BACK BACK.

 

We will chop and change managers looking for something thats not there is we arent very, very careful, whilst ruining the chance of Puel, or whoever, building something more long term. Short termism will leave you with a squad with a blend that isnt ideal, boom and bust performances and a sense that the fan base doesnt know where we are heading.

 

Shakespeare was doing that himself. Signed some decent technical players and proceeded to play a dreadful style. Absolutely no plan whatsoever.

 

Thats why im so wary of swapping the manager. It simply will not make all the problems go away

.....which of these technical players were available to Shakespeare at the time?

People have their image of Shakey as some sort of buffoon given a role which he was not suited for. He gained 5 wins in a row after taking over, his squad became decimated with injuries at the end of the season. Just take a look back and see who he had which was available!!!!

[RonnieTodger]

1 hour ago, MC Prussian said:

Edited the original post, I see.

 

Still, read through the thread again and tell us what's so random about the managers mentioned.

 

And there's always the left-field option... Plenty of managers will want to come here, with the working conditions and whatnot.

In the end, any appointment will remain "random" for some. Just like the case with Ranieri - or Puel. Just because they're "random" doesn't make them bad managers.

Sorry.

 

I've just flicked through a few pages and Emery, Tuchel, Enrique are all dreamland. Whilst I could win the league with PSG, his stock will be higher than Leicester. Tuchel is the favourite to succeed him and Enrique is being touted to replace Conte. 

 

Any left-field managers perhaps doing well in Italy or Spain will want to implement a new style and if some of you lot can't be arsed to give Puel a chance to do that, why would it be any different if we hired another one and they enter a rough patch?

 

Some of the names like Dyche, Wagner and Howe are just changes for changes' sake. Puel hasn't been amazing, but if we're not going to give him a chance, what's the point in hiring these people? We'll end up like Watford with a new manager every year, because we get bored until we inevitably go down.

Edited 17 April 2018 by RonnieTodger

[Babylon]

3 hours ago, Mark 'expert' Lawrenson said:

If we don’t start winning at home all the long term plans will mean nothing, we’ll struggle and he’ll be gone, that’s the nature of the game.

Unfortunately you are correct, that's the way it goes.

 

I'm all in with his thinking and long term planning, it's what I want and what I liked about Pearson. But, you really do need some sort of short term success to give people the confidence in giving you time. Our form has slowing gone off a cliff, without credit in the bank like Pearson had for good previous work. The owners might not fancy giving him the time he probably needs.

[MC Prussian]

1 hour ago, RonnieTodger said:

Sorry.

 

I've just flicked through a few pages and Emery, Tuchel, Enrique are all dreamland. Whilst I could win the league with PSG, his stock will be higher than Leicester. Tuchel is the favourite to succeed him and Enrique is being touted to replace Conte. 

 

Any left-field managers perhaps doing well in Italy or Spain will want to implement a new style and if some of you lot can't be arsed to give Puel a chance to do that, why would it be any different if we hired another one and they enter a rough patch?

 

Some of the names like Dyche, Wagner and Howe are just changes for changes' sake. Puel hasn't been amazing, but if we're not going to give him a chance, what's the point in hiring these people? We'll end up like Watford with a new manager every year, because we get bored until we inevitably go down.

I have my reservations about Puel as opposed to other managers because I recently read upon his history with clubs in France (Lille, Lyon and Nice), which doesn't shed a too sympathetic light on his persona and his approach to football.

 

That's just me, though.

 

As much as some of the names mentioned in this thread are clearly "dreamland" suggestions, who says they wouldn't come here and why is it that I get the feeling that every time somebody is making a sensible suggestion as opposed to Puel, it's put down with the "why can't you be arsed to give Puel the chance to do that?". Speaking of implementing new systems, that's what you do in pre-season, not during a season.

 

Football is based on results, and at the current rate, we're looking likely to drop down to 10th (or even lower). No time for sentiment there. I would like Puel to stay so he can really show off what his vision and strategy is, but he's also brought it onto himself with our style of play as of late and the change thereof.

 

Look, I don't like swapping managers every half year or so, and clearly the owners aren't a fan of it, either. But with dire football on show, us caught in a rut with four wins in 16 and "negativity" and discontent among the fanbase growing (my perception), it's not hard to put two and two together.

 

And who knows? Maybe we need a sportive shock to set priorities right again. Right now, everything that made us so good and so feared in the league has pretty much evaporated. It did so to an extent under Ranieri and Shakespeare and has now somewhat reached its peak under Puel.

Edited 17 April 2018 by MC Prussian