Gray ??

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

9 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

Just a question here, not a dig in any way, but how good do people realistically think Gray can actually be for us that makes him worth persisting with?

 

Zaha level?

Why not? Why not better?  I dont know really.  He might end up being our Theo Walcott

 

But for the time being he is one of our best options and thats that.  Also showing signs of improvement over the seasons though a lot on here like to deny that

[Nick]

5 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

Why not? Why not better?  I dont know really.  He might end up being our Theo Walcott

 

But for the time being he is one of our best options and thats that.  Also showing signs of improvement over the seasons though a lot on here like to deny that

In which areas is his game improving under Puel? 

 

Here’s a little way off becoming anything like a player of Walcott’s calibre at the moment.

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

2 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said:

In which areas is his game improving under Puel? 

 

Here’s a little way off becoming anything like a player of Walcott’s calibre at the moment.

I meant Walcott in a negative way, haha.  You know, hangs around at the club for years never quite reaching the level the club expects of him but occasionally putting in good performances that keep giving people hope

 

He's improved defensively.  He's improved with how quickly he gets his head up and moves the ball.  He used to either shoot too soon or react to that by being a bit timid.  Seems a more balanced player to me.

 

I'm not saying he's fantastic.  Its just that people like to slag him off loads and I dont know why.  Young player contributing well to the team trying to find his feet in the prem. 

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson]

Still the young player with bags of potential (just) but it won’t be long before he’s in his mid 20’s and the player who disappointingly never reached his potential, he really needs to step up, man up, and grasp this opportunity he’s got, and I really hope he can.

[Guest ttfn]

17 hours ago, Babylon said:

Said it the other day, give him an extended run in the team and see what happens. This thread could be a carbon copy of the Chilwell thread form last year with people saying he was rubbish, we needed another left back and that he should be on loan at a championship club etc. Only faith from the manager, patience and hard work from the player produced England's current left back. Gray has something about him, like it was obvious Chilwell did. I get the feeling that like so many other players these days, he'll only make it with exceptional commitment and the want to better himself.

He’s had an extended run in the team, that’s exactly the issue, he’s started about 3/4 of the games he’s been available for this season. I wouldn’t have a problem at all with the argument that he’s “still developing” if there was any indication that he was actually developing at all beyond an improved work rate (from a low base).

 

People were writing off Chilwell after 25-30 games for the club. Gray has now played 111 games for us now.

 

Players do develop at different rates and I think you’re right to say that there is something there and it’s up to Gray to deliver it. He’s had more time and patience at this level than most young English players get and he’s showing precious little to suggest that patience was well invested.

 

Edited 18 December 2018 by ttfn

[coolhandfox]

Sad thing is after Maddison, he's one of our more creative players

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

13 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Sad thing is after Maddison, he's one of our more creative players

Yeap.  But one of our most heavily criticised....

[Babylon]

29 minutes ago, ttfn said:

He’s had an extended run in the team, that’s exactly the issue, he’s started about 3/4 of the games he’s been available for this season. I wouldn’t have a problem at all with the argument that he’s “still developing” if there was any indication that he was actually developing at all beyond an improved work rate (from a low base).

 

People were writing off Chilwell after 25-30 games for the club. Gray has now played 111 games for us now.

 

Players do develop at different rates and I think you’re right to say that there is something there and it’s up to Gray to deliver it. He’s had more time and patience at this level than most young English players get and he’s showing precious little to suggest that patience was well invested.

 

3 or 4 games is not an extended run. Puel put faith in Chilwell, gave him the left back spot and stuck with him despite multiple mistakes and errors. 3 or 4 games really isn't an extended run. I'm talking half a season at least of starting the vast majority of them. If we had a vastly better alternative, then of course you can't do that. But we don't currently have that. Barnes might be doing well in the Champ, but Gray would do equally as well down there. We've seen what he can produce in cup games against that sort of opposition.

 

If we aren't going to spend big on a top class winger in Jan, then give him the second half of the season and it's up to him then.

[Sunbury Fox]

In answer to the question above, I don't think Gray will ever reach the level of Zaha, let alone Mahrez. His decision making and end product is just so bad and shows no real sign of improving. There was a classic incident on Saturday when he made a great run, beating a couple of players, before following it up with a weak, scuffed left footed shot which trickled by the post. That was Gray in a nutshell. Even as a young player in the Championship his stats for goals and assists were nothing special, unlike Maddison and Barnes. People have always seen great potential in him, which is why he got a move to the Prem, but there has to come a time when potential becomes reality and I just don't see it happening with Gray. This season was a massive chance for him with Mahrez leaving and he's blown it. 

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

17 minutes ago, Sunbury Fox said:

In answer to the question above, I don't think Gray will ever reach the level of Zaha, let alone Mahrez. His decision making and end product is just so bad and shows no real sign of improving. There was a classic incident on Saturday when he made a great run, beating a couple of players, before following it up with a weak, scuffed left footed shot which trickled by the post. That was Gray in a nutshell. Even as a young player in the Championship his stats for goals and assists were nothing special, unlike Maddison and Barnes. People have always seen great potential in him, which is why he got a move to the Prem, but there has to come a time when potential becomes reality and I just don't see it happening with Gray. This season was a massive chance for him with Mahrez leaving and he's blown it. 

 very harsh

[Guest ttfn]

30 minutes ago, Babylon said:

3 or 4 games is not an extended run. Puel put faith in Chilwell, gave him the left back spot and stuck with him despite multiple mistakes and errors. 3 or 4 games really isn't an extended run. I'm talking half a season at least of starting the vast majority of them. If we had a vastly better alternative, then of course you can't do that. But we don't currently have that. Barnes might be doing well in the Champ, but Gray would do equally as well down there. We've seen what he can produce in cup games against that sort of opposition.

 

If we aren't going to spend big on a top class winger in Jan, then give him the second half of the season and it's up to him then.

Agree about the Barnes comparison, you just have to look at how well regarded Gray is with the under 21s too to know that he is clearly at worst a top-end Championship player. I’m not advocating Barnes or anybody else over Gray, it’s simply an observation on his lack of development.

 

We’re almost halfway through the season and Gray has started 11 of the 14 league games for which he’s been available, I think that’s about as much of an extended run as you might expect, and you’d want to see some results by this point if you’re a manager putting faith in him. 

[coolhandfox]

He is 22, still developing in a side that not very fluid at the moment. We have him, Albrighton, Ghezell and Diabetes completing for the wide spots, it not like we have lots of good options, he's on course to have a better year output wise then last year.

 

Gray            14 Apps, 2 Goals, 1 Assist

Albrighton    16 Apps, 1 Goal,   2 Assist 

Ghezzel       11 Apps, 1 Goal

 

You could argue his the best of a average bunch.

Edited 18 December 2018 by coolhandfox
Typo's

[mucfox]

There is nothing more to discuss about GRAY - he is a League One player and no level higher. imo this is one more reason to sack CP, because  every day he can see his performances during the practice. Regardless Gray is playing in the starting XI.....

[Tuna]

5 minutes ago, mucfox said:

There is nothing more to discuss about GRAY - he is a League One player and no level higher. imo this is one more reason to sack CP, because  every day he can see his performances during the practice. Regardless Gray is playing in the starting XI.....

League One player? Really?

Edited 18 December 2018 by Tuna

[Hanan96]

13 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

Chilwell hadn't had as many chances in fairness.

Chilwell played in every epl games when he available, except 1 game.and that's not so many chances? How should he get more? Arranging friendly every week? 

3 hours ago, Swan Lesta said:

In which areas is his game improving under Puel? 

 

Here’s a little way off becoming anything like a player of Walcott’s calibre at the moment.

Decision making were. He's not shooting from everywhere anymore, also defensive workrate. Didn't just stay forward anymore. 

So far those two are noticeable and others aren't much different. 

[Hammo]

Gray sadly appears to be treading the same career path as many like him - highly talented but incapable, for whatever reason, of consistently channeling that talent to the benefit of the team. If one word could sum up his Leicester career so far it would be 'frustrating'.

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

1 minute ago, Hammo said:

Gray sadly appears to be treading the same career path as many like him - highly talented but incapable, for whatever reason, of consistently channeling that talent to the benefit of the team. If one word could sum up his Leicester career so far it would be 'frustrating'.

Thats your opinion on him.  I dont see it that way in the slightest. 

 

Gray is one of those players that people have formed opinions about and maintain a biased slant.  You will literally not be happy until he reaches Mahrez like capabilities

[Hammo]

3 hours ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

Thats your opinion on him.  I dont see it that way in the slightest. 

 

Gray is one of those players that people have formed opinions about and maintain a biased slant.  You will literally not be happy until he reaches Mahrez like capabilities

Your second paragraph is based on what grounds? It certainly does not apply to me. I judge on what I see. And no, I don't ever expect him to be as good as Mahrez.

[Bert]

4 hours ago, mucfox said:

There is nothing more to discuss about GRAY - he is a League One player and no level higher. imo this is one more reason to sack CP, because  every day he can see his performances during the practice. Regardless Gray is playing in the starting XI.....

So you see Gray every day in “practice” too, do you? And to say his level isn’t above League One is ridiculous. Embarrassing for yourself in fact. 

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

44 minutes ago, Hammo said:

Your second paragraph is based on what grounds? It certainly does not apply to me. I judge on what I see. And no, I don't ever expect him to be as good as Mahrez.

Im referring to the constant "Gray is not good enough and never will be" tripe

 

He performs fine in the context of the team and he is by no means holding us back. We're worse without him

[sacreblueits442]

8 hours ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

Why not? Why not better?  I dont know really.  He might end up being our Theo Walcott

 

But for the time being he is one of our best options and thats that.  Also showing signs of improvement over the seasons though a lot on here like to deny that

.. defensively he has improved but he still have little end product and I feel a switch to the right wing would be beneficial. 

  He still has a default mindset to cut in and shoot from the left, perhaps on the right he will have to think about his game differently. That goal against Manchester United could be the worst thing that could have happened to him, because all he wants to do is replicate it. He seems to be stuck in a time loop and needs to look at the game in another way. 

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

4 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

.. defensively he has improved but he still have little end product and I feel a switch to the right wing would be beneficial. 

  He still has a default mindset to cut in and shoot from the left, perhaps on the right he will have to think about his game differently. That goal against Manchester United could be the worst thing that could have happened to him, because all he wants to do is replicate it. He seems to be stuck in a time loop and needs to look at the game in another way. 

I laughed at the point about the Manchester goal. You could be on to something there i think he is much less likely to cut in and shoot than he was

 

Otherwise i agree with that post to a degree. I do think he is trying to find that perspective. He has tried to change what he does. People claim that he thinks he's arrived already but i dont think so. Think he knows he needs to improve

[Hammo]

22 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

Im referring to the constant "Gray is not good enough and never will be" tripe

 

He performs fine in the context of the team and he is by no means holding us back. We're worse without him

He's been here three years and while I still see him as a potential asset - because of the talent he has - I'd say he has been too unproductive too often, which is a disappointment, a frustration. I sincerely hope he learns, develops his game and realises his potential by finding a level of consistency - and intelligent decision-making - that really benefits the team, but on the evidence so far I question whether he can.

[Sunbury Fox]

In 3 seasons in the Championship at Birmingham Gray scored 8 goals in 72 games. Compare that to what Barnes and Maddison have achieved in the Championship at a similar stage of their development. 

Edited 18 December 2018 by Sunbury Fox

[Jimmy]

3 minutes ago, Sunbury Fox said:

In 3 seasons in the Championship at Birmingham Gray scored 8 goals in 72 games. Compare that to what Barnes and Maddison have achieved in the Championship at a similar stage of their development. 

in a struggling Birmingham City side, Barnes is in one of the best sides in the division