The "do they mean us?" thread pt 2

[Chester Dontlie]

20 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

 

I think it's time to start worrying about Paul Merson's well being. Poor sod survived through gambling, alcohol and cocaine addiction, but I fear Arsenal might be the death of him

[Rusko187]

1 hour ago, Koke said:

Something to ponder...

 

 

I think our experience in going the distance in league wins will stand us in good stead to finish strong, at the start of the season a dream finish would be top 6. 

Whilst disappointing it may seem now, a good season for us is still within the top 6.

[ScouseFox]

1 hour ago, Koke said:

Something to ponder...

 

 

not that comparable when you actually look at the fixtures though. they came back from the international break and had city, arsenal, united and chelsea in their next 7 or 8 games, so they'd basically played nobody good in the first 12. we've done the opposite and got 12 games in and played everyone in the top half. can't see us taking 1 point from our next 5 games like they did. 

 

they also completely gave up after the new year, they won 4 games in the last 4 months of the season. 

[Finnegan]

1 hour ago, Babylon said:

Careers get wrecked on the back of picking projects on the basis of those things. Yes Arsenal are a big club, with a worldwide following and a higher turnover. 

 

But. 

 

Of their current squad, how many actually get into our team. I'd say perhaps two, and both of them would have to play out of position to get in the Team as their striker spot is already taken by Vardy.  Who has the better recruitment setup? Who has the better decision makers at the club? Who has the better owners?

 

Too many of these big clubs are failing from the very top and not just having picked a bad manager. There are failings throughout the clubs whilst those people remain in charge then you have to think twice if you want a project that you can do something with in the short term.

 

 

 

 

I've said a few times recently to friends of mine that support big clubs, particularly United and Arsenal, they are actually the biggest victims of the offensive "Leicester City miracle" narrative. 

 

As much as I and other Leicester fans may find it irritating to hear words like miracle, fairytale, magic (or more offensively, fluke, freak, etc) attributed to our title success, the club probably like it, to an extent. They're probably happy to go under the radar and not share the secrets of our success. 

 

The truth is that no league title win is given out by magic, they're all earned. But by dismissing what we did and have achieved over the last six or seven years as something other worldly and mystical, all you're actually doing is stupidly missing the opportunity to learn from the lessons we're offering the entire division. 

 

When Billy Bean used science, maths, intelligence, innovation to take the As on an unprecedented run of success with **** all budget, the Red Sox sat up, paid attention, learned from their example and went on to borrow from the methodology to end one of the longest championship droughts in sport. They've won it three more times since. 

 

We built a title on a bedrock of intelligent recruitment, fostering exceptional team spirit, building a squad of compatible personalities all with a hard working, professional attitude, made excellent use of nutrition, sports science and fitness. We had an identifiable game plan that fit the strengths of the players we'd recruited. 

 

United and Arsenal watched all of this unfold and went "well that's nice..... now which player can we sign to maximise our social media follows and shirt sales?" 

 

It's absolute madness. Even at Man City and Liverpool the narrative is washed down to simply Pep vs Klopp, like they're two magical super heroes that have single handedly transformed the clubs. No way near enough is made of the fact that Man City built the club from the ground up in the likeness of Barcelona to facilitate Pep. 

 

From front to back they engineered a club that's all pulling in the same direction, bought players that fit the personality and playing philosophy of Pep's vision not just simply big names for the sakes of it. 

 

And its the same at Liverpool. Wijnaldum, Henderson, Milner and Robertson aren't fashionable on any level but they fit with what Klopp is trying to achieve. 

[Facecloth]

6 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I've said a few times recently to friends of mine that support big clubs, particularly United and Arsenal, they are actually the biggest victims of the offensive "Leicester City miracle" narrative. 

 

As much as I and other Leicester fans may find it irritating to hear words like miracle, fairytale, magic (or more offensively, fluke, freak, etc) attributed to our title success, the club probably like it, to an extent. They're probably happy to go under the radar and not share the secrets of our success. 

 

The truth is that no league title win is given out by magic, they're all earned. But by dismissing what we did and have achieved over the last six or seven years as something other worldly and mystical, all you're actually doing is stupidly missing the opportunity to learn from the lessons we're offering the entire division. 

 

When Billy Bean used science, maths, intelligence, innovation to take the As on an unprecedented run of success with **** all budget, the Red Sox sat up, paid attention, learned from their example and went on to borrow from the methodology to end one of the longest championship droughts in sport. They've won it three more times since. 

 

We built a title on a bedrock of intelligent recruitment, fostering exceptional team spirit, building a squad of compatible personalities all with a hard working, professional attitude, made excellent use of nutrition, sports science and fitness. We had an identifiable game plan that fit the strengths of the players we'd recruited. 

 

United and Arsenal watched all of this unfold and went "well that's nice..... now which player can we sign to maximise our social media follows and shirt sales?" 

 

It's absolute madness. Even at Man City and Liverpool the narrative is washed down to simply Pep vs Klopp, like they're two magical super heroes that have single handedly transformed the clubs. No way near enough is made of the fact that Man City built the club from the ground up in the likeness of Barcelona to facilitate Pep. 

 

From front to back they engineered a club that's all pulling in the same direction, bought players that fit the personality and playing philosophy of Pep's vision not just simply big names for the sakes of it. 

 

And its the same at Liverpool. Wijnaldum, Henderson, Milner and Robertson aren't fashionable on any level but they fit with what Klopp is trying to achieve. 

Great post.

 

I remember after we won the league, a Liverpool fan called 606 and declared that Leicesters success showed the Liverpool needed to go out and spend £150m plus to compete. I thought no, it proves the exact opposite, that it's almost irrelevant how much you spend if you just throw money at any half decent player and have no plan or structure. A free transfer can add much more to the team than a £20m signing. 

[ALC Fox]

2 hours ago, Babylon said:

Careers get wrecked on the back of picking projects on the basis of those things. Yes Arsenal are a big club, with a worldwide following and a higher turnover. 

 

But. 

 

Of their current squad, how many actually get into our team. I'd say perhaps two, and both of them would have to play out of position to get in the Team as their striker spot is already taken by Vardy.  Who has the better recruitment setup? Who has the better decision makers at the club? Who has the better owners?

 

Too many of these big clubs are failing from the very top and not just having picked a bad manager. There are failings throughout the clubs whilst those people remain in charge then you have to think twice if you want a project that you can do something with in the short term.

 

 

 

When I look at Arsenal and Man Utd particularly, what gets me is the arrogance of the belief that they should be at the top just because they're Arsenal and Man Utd. They just slap an Arsenal or Utd shirt on someone and expect them to be an elite player. That belief seems to emanate from the very top, down to the managers and the fans.

 

Teams like us have had to be very creative and detailed with our recruitment to get anywhere in this league. We can't rely on our name only. That's why we have the squad we currently have. Thats how we won the league. That's how we ended up nicking a past-his-prime Cambiasso to lend his experience in our first season back in the big time (and Wolves did a similar thing with Joao Moutinho).

 

We're reaping the benefits of good management on and off the pitch, and it's only just begun. Football moves in cycles, as we're often told. We're at the beginning of ours. Let's just hope it continues. If we're the ones getting consistent Champions League football, it won't take long for the streetwear limited edition collaboration kits and outrageous sponsorship deals to come our way, and then we'll be the big dogs who think we can buy anyone in the division. I just hope we don't get too carried away if that does happen.

[Heathrow fox]

25 minutes ago, ScouseFox said:

not that comparable when you actually look at the fixtures though. they came back from the international break and had city, arsenal, united and chelsea in their next 7 or 8 games, so they'd basically played nobody good in the first 12. we've done the opposite and got 12 games in and played everyone in the top half. can't see us taking 1 point from our next 5 games like they did. 

 

they also completely gave up after the new year, they won 4 games in the last 4 months of the season. 

 + they didn’t have a Mr Vardy playing for them 😁

[urban.spaceman]

13 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

Great post.

 

I remember after we won the league, a Liverpool fan called 606 and declared that Leicesters success showed the Liverpool needed to go out and spend £150m plus to compete. I thought no, it proves the exact opposite, that it's almost irrelevant how much you spend if you just throw money at any half decent player and have no plan or structure. A free transfer can add much more to the team than a £20m signing. 

The sad thing about this is they literally went out and spent £150m on just a defender and a goalkeeper. 
 

(though I do agree with your point)

[Christoph]

2 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

The sad thing about this is they literally went out and spent £150m on just a defender and a goalkeeper. 
 

(though I do agree with your point)

Both which have improved their team immensely. So actually...the guy was kinda right!

[Facecloth]

2 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

The sad thing about this is they literally went out and spent £150m on just a defender and a goalkeeper. 
 

(though I do agree with your point)

Well that's because as Finners pointed out above, Klopp brought a structure and a plan. They paid that money because they were the right players and people to fit how the club wanted to play. But had those players been available for much less I'm sure the fans would have kicked off at the lack of spending, but they'd have been just as successful. Spending is fine with plan and structure. Man Utd have spent similar this summer on Maguire, Wam Bissaka and James and it's got them nowhere. 

[sylofox]

22 hours ago, foxfanazer said:

Sad to hear he's back on the gear. All the best Merse

If you supported arse you would be on the gear

[RonnieTodger]

The absolute state of Sky Sports pundits. The Soccer Saturday panel are just 5 armchair fans from your local pub, dismissing anything well earned and suggesting that any underdog will lose any of their assets to the top 6 because "bigger club innit".

 

They're almost as bad as the Nairobi and Cairo based United fans replying "welcome to Manchester Untied" under every James Maddison related post.

[Mickyblueeyes]

From that Merson clip, the only offensive thing is when he says Leicester good form is solely linked to Brendan being manager. Don’t get me wrong, Brendan’s has played a massive role in all of this and taken us up a few notches but does he really believe that is the only reason for our success so far this year. We are a completely different beast to the team who won the league. That year, we had three, maybe four (if you include Kasper) world class players. The rest played their part in a well oiled machine. 

 

This time its different. We have world class players all over the pitch. Riccy, Youri, Madders, Cags, Chilwell, Ndidi, Vardy, Kasper and even Evans walk into Arsenal’s team - They’ve been acquired by careful planning and good management at all levels. The fact is, in the years from our title win, Leicester have lost three key players and rebuilt a side arguably better then the one they had in 15/16. Without these players, Brendan doesn’t play his style and the good form is not as good as it currently is. 

 

Merson really needs to do his research and earn his salary. No one is arguing the big club debate, because there isn’t one - arsenal win. However, the fact Leicester is back up there is nothing to do with luck - its good management on and off the pitch. In the same time Arsenal have got considerably worse due to mis-management

[Finnegan]

1 hour ago, urban.spaceman said:

The sad thing about this is they literally went out and spent £150m on just a defender and a goalkeeper. 
 

(though I do agree with your point)

 

True but they bought probably the best form defender in the world and one of the best keepers on the market. 

 

By contrast, United bought Harry Maguire and Fred for about the same money. 

Edited 11 November 2019 by Finnegan

[HighPeakFox]

Merson is a bit daft, and a little troubled. If you're remotely offended by him, then you're terribly terribly easily offended. 

[Finnegan]

Just now, HighPeakFox said:

Merson is a bit daft, and a little troubled. If you're remotely offended by him, then you're terribly terribly easily offended. 

 

Much like Kammy, he's clearly employed more for entertainment value than because anyone really trusts his opinion. 

[urban.spaceman]

2 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

True but they bought probably the best form defender in the world and one of the best jeepers on the market. 

 

By contrast, United bought Harry Maguire and Fred for about the same money. 

Levels. 

[Mickyblueeyes]

3 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

Merson is a bit daft, and a little troubled. If you're remotely offended by him, then you're terribly terribly easily offended. 

Unfortunately, it normally is those who are a bit daft who tend to cause offence in any walk of life. Their comments usually lack the research before the opinion is expressed. 

[Guest SO1]

18 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

Great post.

 

I remember after we won the league, a Liverpool fan called 606 and declared that Leicesters success showed the Liverpool needed to go out and spend £150m plus to compete. I thought no, it proves the exact opposite, that it's almost irrelevant how much you spend if you just throw money at any half decent player and have no plan or structure. A free transfer can add much more to the team than a £20m signing. 

To Liverpool's credit they learned from their mistakes.

They went MONEYBALL full tilt when Rodgers first arrived and after throwing money down the toilet for Andy Carroll.

FSG/RedSox bought time by hiring Klopp but understood that the good will of the fans wasn't going to last forever.

Sold Coutinho for 140mil and bought Van Dijk/Alisson for around the same, Filled two holes that had been there since Rodgers started. And here we are.

Think that the moral of the story is that you have to do both spend and moneyball to buy players to fit the system/templete or style of play.

The problems for me in United and Arsenal are from the top down. They can hire all the managers that they want. United is the shining example of that failure,

[HighPeakFox]

1 minute ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

Unfortunately, it normally is those who are a bit daft who tend to cause offence in any walk of life. Their comments usually lack the research before the opinion is expressed. 

What he said IS NOT offensive. Taking offence is a choice, and it's healthier not to bother. 

[Corky]

2 hours ago, Babylon said:

Way I look at it, Rodgers has already been at a bigger club than Arsenal and he spent years getting his career back on track. He'll go, but he'll wait for the right project and I think he'll also wait until he's achieved here. Which could be after a champions league campaign. 

Yeah, he always looks very comfortable and doesn't need to use the hyperbole with us. It's been noted that the Brentan stuff has all but gone.

 

Of course with good results and high league positions comes more scrutiny but you get the feeling he likes what he's doing at the moment and to leave it now would be a big risk.

 

And all of this is hypothetical anyway- all the other clubs still have managers and absolutely no guarantees they would want Rodgers.

[LC/FC]

2 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

Levels. 

Speaking of levels, it's maddening how our own levels have jumped so far in the last 5 years.

We bought Ulloa for 8 million and all went nuts at the price paid at the time by us. 

Then we overspent a lot, including then jumping 29 million for Slimani which for us, was almost as bad as Akinibadbuy for the amount spent and now we're spending 20-30-40 million on players here there and everywhere.

[Mickyblueeyes]

Just now, HighPeakFox said:

What he said IS NOT offensive. Taking offence is a choice, and it's healthier not to bother. 

I don’t think anyone’s taken it too badly ? Let people debate it, if they wish, there are gaps in his assessment - there is no harm. 

[HighPeakFox]

6 minutes ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

I don’t think anyone’s taken it too badly ? Let people debate it, if they wish, there are gaps in his assessment - there is no harm. 

Not stopping debate, I'm taking issue with the taking of offence at a silly old man. 

[egg_fried_rice]

https://www.football365.com/news/liverpool-top-premier-league-winners-and-losers

 

Jamie Vardy
Of all the remarkable things about Vardy, and there are many, it is his perseverance that is most impressive. He makes a couple of runs that don’t end in completed passes, but applauds the effort and next time makes the same run. He takes heavy knocks to the elbow and ankle from defenders who are desperate to keep him quiet, but grimaces before running both off. A few more runs are made without success, including a missed chance that would erode the confidence of other strikers.

 

And then, when Leicester City need him most, Vardy is there. He’s always there. There to guide home a first-touch finish that he made look stupendously easy, and there to assist James Maddison’s second goal when a more selfish player might have tried to shoot.

 

Brendan Rodgers has done many excellent and sensible things since arriving in Leicester, but getting Vardy in the perfect frame of mind was surely his quickest and most obvious fix. Since Rodgers was appointed, Vardy has scored four more goals than any other Premier League player.

 

More impressive still is the conversion rate from shots into goals over that period. Vardy’s figure of 36.2% is almost five percent higher than any other player in the league. He is a superstar, world-class striker.