The Guvnor Posted 17 January 2019 Share Posted 17 January 2019 Vince Cable re tweeting Poly Toynbees extremely bad taste tweet about sums them both up. What was 'the will of people' is now 'the will of dead people'.From Saturday, new young remain voters on register tip the balance v old dead leavers.Time for a Final Say Referendum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wymsey Posted 17 January 2019 Share Posted 17 January 2019 1 hour ago, Sir Shep said: Cheers Phillip for diverting the news away from brexit, I guess a fender bender is more worthy ? He's very fortunate/lucky, indeed.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy Posted 17 January 2019 Share Posted 17 January 2019 Surprised Prince Phillip is still driving aged 97. Would have thought he could afford a chauffeur tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiritwalker Posted 17 January 2019 Share Posted 17 January 2019 (edited) I was hoping for a 2nd referendum but now I'm warming to a Norway type of deal. Even if parliament agreed that a 2nd referendum was the only way forward they would then struggle to find agreement on what should be on the ballot paper, added to that a 2nd referendum would further divide the country and would probably result in civil unrest. May for all her talk of reaching out still seems hell bent on trying to get a revised version of her deal through. Hopefully the moderates on both sides can come together and find a way forward. In the history of British politics has there ever been a time when both main parties had more incompetent leaders? Edited 17 January 2019 by Spiritwalker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Horse's Mouth Posted 17 January 2019 Share Posted 17 January 2019 was just thinking about Lib Dems, they genuinely must be kicking themselves about how badly the coalition went. If they had relatively the same amount of seats, they'd have had the tories and labour eating out of their hands currently. Would've been even more messy i'd imagine than it already has been Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 17 January 2019 Share Posted 17 January 2019 15 minutes ago, Izzy said: Surprised Prince Phillip is still driving aged 97. Would have thought he could afford a chauffeur tbh. It's a cover-up. The Queen was driving and had been necking the martinis at lunch, as per bloody usual. When they had the crash, though, she ran off and hid in those bushes in the photo, leaving Phil to take the rap. And yet Al-Fayed claims that Phil was responsible for the assassination of Diana....some people will make up any old crap. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark 'expert' Lawrenson Posted 17 January 2019 Share Posted 17 January 2019 The Duke is very independent don’t you know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Nacho Posted 17 January 2019 Share Posted 17 January 2019 A more concerning thing than Brexit would be Diane Abbott being a secretary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep blue Posted 17 January 2019 Share Posted 17 January 2019 6 hours ago, Countryfox said: But getting back on track .. brexit ... we’re fooked .. So .. what’s going to happen ... should we all have a guess .. 1. Renegotiate and it goes through 2. Another referendum and we stay in 3. Leave with no deal Or is there anything else?? Which is likely, which is best ?? ... discuss. So many people just want it finished as quickly as possible. The fastest solution is to rescind article 50. I'm sure this can be done in a matter of weeks. All the uncertainty would be taken away, we would be back to stability, and the final result (remaining in the EU) would put us in a better position than any deal that May could strike (the only deal she could get through parliament would be such a soft brexit that it would have all that goes with being in the EU but with much less control than before). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep blue Posted 17 January 2019 Share Posted 17 January 2019 8 hours ago, Realist Guy In The Room said: ... the only way it settles the issue is if the result was at least 75% in favour of the winner which it wouldn’t be. A 2nd vote buries the country even further. In which case, why was such a small vote of 52% in the 2016 referendum deemed to be sufficient to justify the feeling of obligation to take such a momentous step as to invoke article 50 without any further deliberation? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopfkino Posted 18 January 2019 Share Posted 18 January 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, gw_leics772 said: I personally dont see why we can't leave and have no checks. Our standards are generally higher so proving this should allow no checks and no tariffs. I know im obviously missing something big, but if its just a shit rulebook. That can surely be changed if it is in everyones best interests. Ie mercedes and bmw want to sell in the uk, they dont need to go somewhere else instead as they are presumably everywhere, and if not, they could essily go somewhere else as well. The only thing i can see that stops this is the eu punishing us for having the gall to want to leave Well of course you have to have checks if you aren't formally committed to the same standards. For example, if the UK signed a trade deal with the US (or NZ/Oz) that permitted chlorinated chicken into the UK market, there has to be checks to ensure this is not entering the EU market as it is banned in the EU. If you have the same standards on chicken and the UK doesn't import chlorinated chicken then no need for checks on chicken (agriculture and food is treated differently anyway but it shows the point, I couldn't think of a different obvious example). Future matters on technological regulation maybe offer a point of divergence. And the key thing with the EU is some trading relationships work on the basis that it doesn't matter how you get to an outcome on standards as long as the outcome is the same, the EU a lot of the time works that you must get to it in the same way. It's not the EU punishing us, it's that you can't just have open borders without formal governance and its the way the EU operates anyway, the EU uses standards as protectionism. 6 hours ago, Alf Bentley said: I didn't think you were attacking me, though you did seem a bit exasperated ("There is no such thing as Norway+ ffs"). Not a problem, anyway. If I couldn't handle people arguing with me, I wouldn't come on here. If anything, I'm too much the other way - I enjoy arguing too much, when I'd be better off doing something else! Largely fair comments that you've made both times, anyway. Though I wouldn't assume that "Norway+" means EFTA/SM and full membership of CU, more like elements of the latter (I don't have the knowledge to be more specific). I was assuming that Owen Jones was being similarly imprecise, but I might be wrong. Like most others, I'm just trying to get my head round what might happen in a complicated, unpredictable situation. Every possible outcome seems unlikely in one way or another, yet one of them is probably going to happen. I struggle to get my head round it, but keep being tempted to try as the outcome might have major real-life impacts in the short and long-term.....or might not! Tbf I am exasperated. I mean I've seen for long enough absolute nonsense written about the Norway option that it's got a bit tiresome seeing it presented, and also dismissed, with absolute nonsense. I took it as Owen Jones meaning a full customs union because the Norway+ plans that I've seen written about say exactly that, maybe he doesn't idk. Tbh, I've never watched full parliamentary proceedings before but I did on Tuesday and Wednesday and that just made me angry. I think on Tuesday it was only Ken Clarke and a handful of others that seemed to grasp that, no matter what, the withdrawal agreement has to passed and that is not going to change from what was agreed in November. The PD (and this is a bit shit/just a can kicker) can be altered but what difference does it make? Maybe MPs feel it would bind government more so it needs changing, but really unless they amend the WA in UK law, the government is probably not going to end up producing what's in the PD anyway, it's just so futile. The debate and contributions of MPs was so lacking, meaningless and trivial in both debates that it just made me despair so that doesn't help either Tbh if it wasn't so vital and if parliament wasn't so inept it'd be a great little conundrum to get your head around. Like playing it as a game to solve it's a real strategic dilemma, so in that respect you have to feel for government trying to find a way through. I don't think I quite understand the Boles amendment but that's a big thing next week. And this from James Kirkup sums up my feelings towards the ultra-Brexiteers but in a kinder way https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/01/brexiteers-are-destroying-their-own-dream/ Edited 18 January 2019 by Kopfkino 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest seanfox778 Posted 18 January 2019 Share Posted 18 January 2019 3 hours ago, Alf Bentley said: It's a cover-up. The Queen was driving and had been necking the martinis at lunch, as per bloody usual. When they had the crash, though, she ran off and hid in those bushes in the photo, leaving Phil to take the rap. And yet Al-Fayed claims that Phil was responsible for the assassination of Diana....some people will make up any old crap. If the queen did get pulled over for drink driving, what would actually happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countryfox Posted 18 January 2019 Share Posted 18 January 2019 2 minutes ago, seanfox778 said: If the queen did get pulled over for drink driving, what would actually happen? They would breathalyse her and if she was over take her down the nick for a blood test. If she proved positive they’d bang her up overnight. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countryfox Posted 18 January 2019 Share Posted 18 January 2019 Mind you, they’d probably show a bit of favouritism towards her and block the peep hole up so that no one could watch her if she had a waz ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest seanfox778 Posted 18 January 2019 Share Posted 18 January 2019 2 minutes ago, Countryfox said: They would breathalyse her and if she was over take her down the nick for a blood test. If she proved positive they’d bang her up overnight. Don't the police work for her? I imagine it'd be more like the ending in Robcop where Robo tries to arrest the evil OCP guy and he gets conflicted between doing his job or going against his boss and he has that weird spasm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countryfox Posted 18 January 2019 Share Posted 18 January 2019 1 minute ago, seanfox778 said: Don't the police work for her? I imagine it'd be more like the ending in Robcop where Robo tries to arrest the evil OCP guy and he gets conflicted between doing his job or going against his boss and he has that weird spasm. If you’re not going to be sensible I’m not going to talk to you ... Robo bloody cop indeed !! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realist Guy In The Room Posted 18 January 2019 Share Posted 18 January 2019 7 hours ago, deep blue said: In which case, why was such a small vote of 52% in the 2016 referendum deemed to be sufficient to justify the feeling of obligation to take such a momentous step as to invoke article 50 without any further deliberation? No idea. The margin of victory certainly should have been a caveat of the vote. Quite a bit of the original referendum should have been different but it’s too late now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 18 January 2019 Share Posted 18 January 2019 7 hours ago, seanfox778 said: If the queen did get pulled over for drink driving, what would actually happen? Princess Anne is a habitual criminal (allegedly). I've heard rumours that she hangs out with boy racers, organises dog fights and just covers up her tattoos in public. Occasionally fragments of the truth leak out.... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1218009.stm "Princess Anne has been fined £400 after admitting driving her Bentley at 93mph on a dual carriageway in Gloucestershire. Cheltenham magistrates also gave her a five-point endorsement on her licence and ordered her to pay £30 costs". http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2497531.stm "Princess Anne has been fined £500 and ordered to pay £500 compensation after pleading guilty to a charge that one of her dogs attacked two children. The court also ordered her to keep the English bull terrier - known as Dotty - on a lead in public, to organise training for the animal and to pay £148 court costs". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 18 January 2019 Share Posted 18 January 2019 A bit of Brexit light relief.... John Bercow has apparently become a cult comedy figure in the European media: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/17/more-animal-than-ever-europeans-find-joy-in-john-bercow Quite amusing, whatever you might think of him and his rulings.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddybad Posted 18 January 2019 Share Posted 18 January 2019 15 hours ago, The Guvnor said: Vince Cable re tweeting Poly Toynbees extremely bad taste tweet about sums them both up. What was 'the will of people' is now 'the will of dead people'.From Saturday, new young remain voters on register tip the balance v old dead leavers.Time for a Final Say Referendum I'm not sure why this is bad taste. It's just looking at statistical probability. In my close family 4 voted leave and 3 remain. Only 2 of the leavers are still here and have a combined age of almost 150. Won't be them paying the taxes to clear up the mess if their generation's gamble with the younger generation's future goes as predicted by the experts. 17 hours ago, gw_leics772 said: I personally dont see why we can't leave and have no checks. Our standards are generally higher so proving this should allow no checks and no tariffs. I know im obviously missing something big, but if its just a shit rulebook. That can surely be changed if it is in everyones best interests. Ie mercedes and bmw want to sell in the uk, they dont need to go somewhere else instead as they are presumably everywhere, and if not, they could essily go somewhere else as well. The only thing i can see that stops this is the eu punishing us for having the gall to want to leave I honestly mean no disrespect by this comment but it's a huge issue that I've spoken to a number of leavers that don't appear to understand issues like this. How did they come to the conclusion the experts could be ignored if they don't know the answer to these things? It's a requirement of the WTO that you treat all countries, that you don't have formal trade deals with, equally. The EU nations - the same as every other nations in the world - don't give any other external countries open borders, so they can't give us open borders. Even if that wasn't the case (which it is), why would they give us open borders anyway? Since when did the UK taking back control (of something or other that's never been adequately explained to me) involve expecting other countries to give up control over their own borders? Even now, two years after the referendum nobody on leave knows what it is. Boris today is giving yet another speech about Brexit based on supposition and guesswork. It's ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted 18 January 2019 Share Posted 18 January 2019 Anybody watching Boris get an absolute hiding at JCB HQ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countryfox Posted 18 January 2019 Share Posted 18 January 2019 15 hours ago, Wymeswold fox said: He's very fortunate/lucky, indeed.. 15 hours ago, Izzy said: Surprised Prince Phillip is still driving aged 97. Would have thought he could afford a chauffeur tbh. He was lucky this time that no one was badly injured ... but he needs to stop driving now .. Cus, imo ... THE DUKES A HAZARD ... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlloverthefloorYesNdidi Posted 18 January 2019 Share Posted 18 January 2019 40 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said: Anybody watching Boris get an absolute hiding at JCB HQ? No Sounds awesome though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countryfox Posted 18 January 2019 Share Posted 18 January 2019 Kranky is banging on again for independence .... I’d let her have it this time ... but make sure it’s a hard scexit ... Get Alan Sugar in to represent us at the talks .... tell them they will need new passports, they will need a new currency, we’ll build a wall and there will be lots of checks at the border, we can fish anywhere we like and they can’t, they’ll have to pay us £10 billion ... up front ... and if Russia comes along and annexes them ... too fookin bad ! ... you should have thought about that before !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 18 January 2019 Share Posted 18 January 2019 15 minutes ago, Countryfox said: Kranky is banging on again for independence .... I’d let her have it this time ... but make sure it’s a hard scexit ... Get Alan Sugar in to represent us at the talks .... tell them they will need new passports, they will need a new currency, we’ll build a wall and there will be lots of checks at the border, we can fish anywhere we like and they can’t, they’ll have to pay us £10 billion ... up front ... and if Russia comes along and annexes them ... too fookin bad ! ... you should have thought about that before !!! The UK should just become a rogue state. We'll fish where we want, we'll fish where we want. We're the UK, We'll fish where we want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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