Brendan Rodgers..yay or nay?

[STUHILL]

24 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

Paying money doesn't mean they're not idiots, but the average fan is a right walloper, and 50% are even worse than that.

 

It's not been plain sailing but, and I swear im saying this every bloody day now, that's the nature of being a midtable club. Inconsistent and frustrating - taking points you wouldn't expect then dropping points against clubs you'd expect to beat. It's why Bournemouth have lost 7 of their last 10. It's why West Ham have had two runs of 1 win in 6 games this season. It's why wolves took 3 points from 6 games across October/November. It's why Everton, prior to beating Bournemouth last week had taken 9 points from 10 games. It's why Watford took 12 points from their first 4 games, then 13 more games to get another 12 points. Being midtable means being inconsistent, it means bad form interspersed with good form. It's something our fanbase needs to learn - we're not special

You are missing the point completely. People aren't expecting us to be a top 6 club or an ever consistent team. They want to enjoy the football on show and have a genuine belief in their Manager and although we will win one week, but lose the next, there is still a sense of excitement and optimism each game. 

 

Puel is slowly but surely sucking that from the club and that's why it has created such a divide amongst the fan base. 

 

He needs to stop forcing a system on the squad that is often ineffective and will very likely remain that way, due to needing much higher calibre players to make it work consistently. He also needs to stop setting us up so negatively at home and start addressing some of the blindly obvious issues his system has in attack. 

 

Being a mid-table club is actually irrelevant to most people's thinking. They know full well that we will likely finish anywhere form 7th-13th each season. Does that mean we have to accept truly dour football and playing weakened teams in the cups. I'd like to think not. 

[Ric Flair]

48 minutes ago, PoshhFox said:

Ranieri had been managing for decades

And???

[coolhandfox]

I would take Rogers.

[PoshhFox]

2 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

And???

My point was someone in his first managerial job is giving him a close run.

 

You compared this with someone who has years of experience having a once in a lifetime season. 

[The Doctor]

4 minutes ago, STUHILL said:

You are missing the point completely. People aren't expecting us to be a top 6 club or an ever consistent team. They want to enjoy the football on show and have a genuine belief in their Manager and although we will win one week, but lose the next, there is still a sense of excitement and optimism each game. 

 

Puel is slowly but surely sucking that from the club and that's why it has created such a divide amongst the fan base. 

 

He needs to stop forcing a system on the squad that is often ineffective and will very likely remain that way, due to needing much higher calibre players to make it work consistently. He also needs to stop setting us up so negatively at home and start addressing some of the blindly obvious issues his system has in attack. 

 

Being a mid-table club is actually irrelevant to most people's thinking. They know full well that we will likely finish anywhere form 7th-13th each season. Does that mean we have to accept truly dour football and playing weakened teams in the cups. I'd like to think not. 

Then they've got a deluded view of what sort of football gets played in midtable clubs - they're all a much of muchness, similar possession stats, similar number of shots, similar distribution of shooting positions 

[Dames]

Just now, PoshhFox said:

My point was someone in his first managerial job is giving him a close run.

 

You compared this with someone who has years of experience having a once in a lifetime season. 

Gerrard has worked with a lot of different managers and he's a clever enough bloke to have realised what works and what doesn't work and use that to form his own managerial style.

 

It doesn't matter if its his first job or not if anything a young manager like Gerrard with his top level experience as a player is more in touch with the modern game. the modern player and knows how to motivate them whereas some managers that have been around for a long time that have had some degree of success tend to live on what brought them that success and never evolve their styles.

 

Plus you can't rule out the effect it would have on a group of players playing under a manager that was genuinely close to a world class player in his prime and spent the totality of his career playing at a high level.

[STUHILL]

1 minute ago, The Doctor said:

Then they've got a deluded view of what sort of football gets played in midtable clubs - they're all a much of muchness, similar possession stats, similar number of shots, similar distribution of shooting positions 

Yet do West Ham, Wolves or Bournemouth want their Manager out? Maybe some of their fans do but not 65% like ours. Our fans are no more deluded than any others and so that suggests there is something wrong with the bigger picture here with Puel in charge. 

[The Doctor]

Just now, STUHILL said:

Yet do West Ham, Wolves or Bournemouth want their Manager out? Maybe some of their fans do but not 65% like ours. Our fans are no more deluded than any others and so that suggests there is something wrong with the bigger picture here with Puel in charge. 

Our fans absolutely are more deluded than most. I'd happily say outside of North London we've got the worst fanbase for delusions of grandeur (hence why of the last 4 managers, one has explicitly called the fans out on it, one implicitly although he might have been talking about the media instead). So many of them didn't deserve that season.

[HankMarvin]

1 hour ago, The Doctor said:

I forgot they endured his shite for a further two months. But fine, let's also add Benteke, Ings and Bogdan to his list of failures that Klopp had to sort. He was not a success at Liverpool and did not lay the foundations for this side

You have added “this side”

the argument was foundations for Klopp 

 

Gomez

firninho

milner 

Lovern 

llalana always injured

Nucleus of current team 

 

Could be argued these 2 also would be starting had they not wanted to leave 

 

coutinho 

can 

 

[STUHILL]

1 minute ago, The Doctor said:

Our fans absolutely are more deluded than most. I'd happily say outside of North London we've got the worst fanbase for delusions of grandeur (hence why of the last 4 managers, one has explicitly called the fans out on it, one implicitly although he might have been talking about the media instead). So many of them didn't deserve that season.

'Delusions of grandeur' is just another excuse thrown around on a long list of others to avoid acknowledging there are some issues that need addressing. 

Hopefully Top doesn't buy into them so easily, especially when Managers start using them to excuse problems on the pitch that aren't related at all. 

[PoshhFox]

16 minutes ago, Dames said:

Gerrard has worked with a lot of different managers and he's a clever enough bloke to have realised what works and what doesn't work and use that to form his own managerial style.

 

It doesn't matter if its his first job or not if anything a young manager like Gerrard with his top level experience as a player is more in touch with the modern game. the modern player and knows how to motivate them whereas some managers that have been around for a long time that have had some degree of success tend to live on what brought them that success and never evolve their styles.

 

Plus you can't rule out the effect it would have on a group of players playing under a manager that was genuinely close to a world class player in his prime and spent the totality of his career playing at a high level.

Tell that to Thierry Henry

[Simoken]

'Lost the dressing room' here we go again. Weve all heard this bs waffle before.

[The Doctor]

12 minutes ago, STUHILL said:

'Delusions of grandeur' is just another excuse thrown around on a long list of others to avoid acknowledging there are some issues that need addressing. 

Hopefully Top doesn't buy into them so easily, especially when Managers start using them to excuse problems on the pitch that aren't related at all. 

Which is exactly what was said when Nigel Pearson said it 7 years ago this week:

In fact, any post now or then with the manager name removed would be indistinguishable. Plus ça change...

Edited 16 January 2019 by The Doctor

[Ric Flair]

21 minutes ago, PoshhFox said:

My point was someone in his first managerial job is giving him a close run.

 

You compared this with someone who has years of experience having a once in a lifetime season. 

Perhaps Gerrard is having a once in a lifetime season at Rangers and will then flop, it's been done before my new managers. Or he's going to be a world class manager, which could well be possible. Rodgers record in Scotland doesn't concern me, it's what he's done in the PL and it makes for decent viewing over many other likely candidates were we to require a new manager. The most important for me is how he a) likes to play and b) his squads are always built heavily on young players. It fits in with our long term model.

[PoshhFox]

4 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Perhaps Gerrard is having a once in a lifetime season at Rangers and will then flop, it's been done before my new managers. Or he's going to be a world class manager, which could well be possible. Rodgers record in Scotland doesn't concern me, it's what he's done in the PL and it makes for decent viewing over many other likely candidates were we to require a new manager. The most important for me is how he a) likes to play and b) his squads are always built heavily on young players. It fits in with our long term model.

With Gerrard, perhaps we will see what his material career will look like. 

 

Rodgers wouldn’t be the worse choice at all if we were looking for a new manager, agreed his record in the PL helps, when compared to say Lennon who did well at Celtic and couldn’t do it in England. 

 

Maybe the Scottish league makes it harder for us to make judgments? I would say yes. 

 

[OhYesNdidi]

I’d still prefer Marco Rose. His Salzburg side comfortable beat Celtic twice this season. 

 

[Countryfox]

 

Leave Clod to get on with it till the end of the season then make a decision, if required ...   and by then there might be more/better alternatives on offer. 

[Ricey]

2 minutes ago, OhYesNdidi said:

I’d still prefer Marco Rose. His Salzburg side comfortable beat Celtic twice this season. 

 

Rose would be close to ideal, but his stock is so high right now that I'm not sure we'd get him.

[STUHILL]

13 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

Which is exactly what was said when Nigel Pearson said it 7 years ago this week:

In fact, any post now or then with the manager name removed would be indistinguishable. Plus ça change...

Puel will be sacked due to bad results and/or dour, negative football. Nothing to do with delusions of grandeur, just like Pearson not being sacked for that reason either. 

 

Southampton sacked him for the latter and although they made two bad appointments since and are now in a relegation battle, how many would take him back? That is after finishing 8th and in a Cup final as well. Delusions of Grandeur also? Or again just highlighting how painful his football and stubborn approach is. 

 

Let's see how he finishes the season. If he is able to adapt and show some flexibility, whilst keeping us 7th-10th, then he will probably get the summer and into next season too. If he stubbornly persists with what he is doing though, then I think he could be the architect of his own downfall here, just like Southampton and probably his next club too. 

[The Doctor]

Just now, STUHILL said:

Puel will be sacked due to bad results and/or dour, negative football. Nothing to do with delusions of grandeur, just like Pearson not being sacked for that reason either. 

 

 

Which is completely irrelevant to the point being discussed because, thank ****, the fans have no say in whether a manager gets sacked or hired (otherwise we'd have had Steve Walsh and his no coaching badges as manager in 2008).

[mozartfox]

13 minutes ago, OhYesNdidi said:

I’d still prefer Marco Rose. His Salzburg side comfortable beat Celtic twice this season. 

 

 

If the decision of the powers at be was to remove Puel, then Marco Rose could indeed be a very choice.

 

His win rate at RB Salzburg, I recall reading recently is nudging 70%.  OK overall the standard of the Austrian Bundesliga is not up there with the EPL, but technically, the style is attractive with the top teams.   His previous record at Youth level was truly astonishing.  A much better option than Wagner.

 

Anyhow, this is all subjective as we have a Manager in place.

 

[hackneyfox]

1 hour ago, The Doctor said:

t, but then again, looking at points dropped from winning positions:

 

Liverpool - 2

Man Utd - 2

Bournemouth - 3

Cardiff - 3

Leicester - 3

Burnley - 5

Man City - 6

Watford - 6

Brighton - 7

Chelsea - 7

Newcastle - 7

Wolves - 7

Palace - 8

West Ham - 8

Arsenal - 9

Everton - 9

Spurs - 9

Fulham - 12

Huddersfield - 13

Southampton - 15

 

It'd be churlish to complain because defending those leads is proving very effective

We haven't been in the lead in many games and that will help skew those figures.

Edited 16 January 2019 by hackneyfox

[HankMarvin]

1 hour ago, Dames said:

Gerrard has worked with a lot of different managers and he's a clever enough bloke to have realised what works and what doesn't work and use that to form his own managerial style.

 

It doesn't matter if its his first job or not if anything a young manager like Gerrard with his top level experience as a player is more in touch with the modern game. the modern player and knows how to motivate them whereas some managers that have been around for a long time that have had some degree of success tend to live on what brought them that success and never evolve their styles.

 

Plus you can't rule out the effect it would have on a group of players playing under a manager that was genuinely close to a world class player in his prime and spent the totality of his career playing at a high level.

Plus he is benefiting from his Liverpool

links with the young players loaned.

also having a top young coach in Michael Beale along side him  

[fuchsntf]

I am still going for our very own French-partisan....Puel is here doing a job.

Rodgers or any other are "becarefullwhatyou wishfor" category!!!

Every week boring new ways for a Puel-out. Topic...it's gone beyond banter,or decent discussion...

I am also allowed opinion... It's becoming counter-supportive...and quite pathetic...!!

Already many fans have pulled away from this forum because of its continuous negative tones....

I  prefer looney-tunes...Daffy-duck,seems to have more valid-points!!     ..

[That_Dude]

19 minutes ago, STUHILL said:

Who are those utter deluded? I'm curious, as I see statements like that thrown around a lot but don't actually see more than 2-3 who talk about top 6 finishes and even that's being generous. 

 

On the whole, all I see, are people unhappy with the football on show and the decisions being made by Puel. Yes, some want to change now, rather than wait and see, but is that 'utter deluded'? 

 

 

I'd suggest you have a look at the "Reality check thread" for example. Then you'll know.