Strokes Posted 1 April 2019 Posted 1 April 2019 2 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said: It's a simple fact that CM 2.0 would involve us Leaving the EU, not Remaining members of it. I get it that you don't like that particular form of Leaving - I can't say that I'm happy about such an outcome myself. You have your own definition of Brexit. But that definition wasn't on the ballot paper. No definition was. All that was on the ballot paper was Leave/Remain - and CM 2.0 or CU would involve Leaving, not Remaining. One thing is pretty clear: whatever the outcome, most people are going to be unhappy with it.....though the chances are still quite high, I think, of you getting your No Deal dream in 11 days.... No deal would be ok (in my opinion) if we were prepared for it, it’s not going to be a pretty few years without a plan of how we soften the damage. Dead ends everywhere at the minute, I can’t see a viable option without a change in the parliamentary arithmetic or a referendum. I genuinely don’t think CM 2.0 is a valid option though Alf, it’s worse than remain and it’s worse than an orderly no deal.
Alf Bentley Posted 1 April 2019 Posted 1 April 2019 I hate it when falsehoods become accepted as facts..... (1) "Brexit has the greatest democratic mandate in British history"....not true! - Almost 100% of the electorate voted for Churchill's wartime unity govt via the 1935 election - More people voted for the Cameron/Clegg 2010 coalition govt (which resisted calls for Brexit) than voted Leave in the referendum - More people voted in the 1992 general election, won by John Major, than in the 2016 referendum So, if we combine the greatest mandates in British democratic history, we should opt for a Tory/Lab/LD coalition led by John Major. (2) "We have to abide by the 2017 Tory manifesto"........er, no. That may be an issue for Tory MPs but not for anyone else. - That manifesto didn't win a majority govt; in fact it LOST a majority govt! - Labour certainly didn't support Hard Brexit in its vote-winning 2017 manifesto: https://labour.org.uk/manifesto/negotiating-brexit/#first - Er, since when did party manifestos become holy writ anyway?!? - If they are holy writ, how come the Tories reversed their controversial 2017 manifesto commitment on social care funding as soon as the election campaign started? - When do I get to jump into a tardis to enjoy the referendum on electoral reform promised in the 1997 Labour manifesto?
Guest MattP Posted 1 April 2019 Posted 1 April 2019 All four options voted down in parliament again. Complete and utter farce.
Charl91 Posted 1 April 2019 Posted 1 April 2019 This is the part where the German car manufacturers jump in and save us, right?
Super_horns Posted 1 April 2019 Posted 1 April 2019 Well some were a bit closer for once but surely they cannot just keep voting and rejecting options. Going to be leaving at some point..and not sure the EU will wait for long.
Guest MattP Posted 1 April 2019 Posted 1 April 2019 Nick Boles resigns from the Conservatives in the house.
Alf Bentley Posted 1 April 2019 Posted 1 April 2019 Apparently an unusually long political cabinet meeting is scheduled for tomorrow, before normal cabinet. I wonder what the aim of that is? To call a general election? To seek a national unity coalition to agree a solution and bind everyone in (highly unlikely)? To bring back May's Deal and squeeze it through by some dodgy means.......probably that, isn't it?!
Beechey Posted 1 April 2019 Posted 1 April 2019 Conservative MPs that vote against everything are killing me.
Beechey Posted 1 April 2019 Posted 1 April 2019 30 minutes ago, Strokes said: No deal would be ok (in my opinion) if we were prepared for it, it’s not going to be a pretty few years without a plan of how we soften the damage. Dead ends everywhere at the minute, I can’t see a viable option without a change in the parliamentary arithmetic or a referendum. I genuinely don’t think CM 2.0 is a valid option though Alf, it’s worse than remain and it’s worse than an orderly no deal. Straight EFTA/EEA membership in my eyes is a vast upgrade on EU membership, adding a transitional customs union makes it less appealing, but providing it is just transitional, I could happily get behind it.
Guest MattP Posted 1 April 2019 Posted 1 April 2019 5 minutes ago, Kopfkino said: Good on Nick Boles All a bit drama queen though wasn't it? Shouldn't make decisions like that in the heat of the moment but I imagine he knows he's a goner from his local association anyway, doubt they are up for FoM as much as he is Hopefully he'll call a by-election.
AKCJ Posted 1 April 2019 Posted 1 April 2019 This is a total farce. 7 minutes ago, MattP said: Nick Boles resigns from the Conservatives in the house. Is he Stamford and Grantham? Think that has been on the cards for a while
Beechey Posted 1 April 2019 Posted 1 April 2019 2 minutes ago, MattP said: All a bit drama queen though wasn't it? Shouldn't make decisions like that in the heat of the moment but I imagine he knows he's a goner from his local association anyway, doubt they are up for FoM as much as he is Hopefully he'll call a by-election. Suspect he was decided he'd do that all day if Conservative MPs continued to vote against everything.
TheUltimateWinner Posted 1 April 2019 Posted 1 April 2019 We’re fvcked and the more we keep showing instability more and more companies are gonna go ‘nah don’t want a part of that’ and piss off elsewhere. Damage has already been done due to Parliaments incompetence.
Legend_in_blue Posted 1 April 2019 Posted 1 April 2019 Whatever they end up agreeing on, it'll come back to the people for a vote. It gains more and more momentum. When debating this earlier, the argument for the vote coming back would be a more concrete option once we know what we're heading towards. Having it as an option at this stage is a little odd, since it's unclear as to how it would be put together. It's certainly gaining a force though and I think it's required once we get to some sort of consensus which is looking further and further away from what everyone wanted/voted for 3 years ago.
Guest MattP Posted 1 April 2019 Posted 1 April 2019 1 minute ago, Beechey said: Point out which party is the problem: That's hardly surprising though given the speaker selected four Remain/Soft Brexit options.
Izzy Posted 1 April 2019 Posted 1 April 2019 2 minutes ago, Beechey said: Point out which party is the problem: What's the difference between this and Labour voting against May's deal THREE times?
Beechey Posted 1 April 2019 Posted 1 April 2019 3 minutes ago, MattP said: That's hardly surprising though given the speaker selected four Remain/Soft Brexit options. But then consider the first set of votes. Sizeable chunks of the Conservative Party are willing to budge at all. 157 Conservative MPs voted for no deal, 60 for EFTA/EEA. What do they want?
Beechey Posted 1 April 2019 Posted 1 April 2019 3 minutes ago, Izzy said: What's the difference between this and Labour voting against May's deal THREE times? ... nothing. Which is good because that's not even remotely close to an argument I'm making. If anything, it reinforces my point. MPs need to shift their own red lines or we are going to get absolutely nowhere.
Bryn Posted 1 April 2019 Posted 1 April 2019 Absolutely farce this. Having to pander to exploitative politicians and racists at the expense of our country's stability.
AKCJ Posted 1 April 2019 Posted 1 April 2019 Just seen the Boles resignation. Feel for him to be honest, seemed genuinely upset but it's about time Tories started putting Country before Party.
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.