Player power

[Red Squirrel]

I haven't seen any evidence that our players were not putting in the effort. In fact they carried out Puel's tactics to the letter! Fair play to Vardy as well, the number of times he has made a run where in the past a ball into space would have caused havoc but it was passed sideways to end up in a cross 5 mins later when 6' 3 defenders were set and it sailed over Vardys head. It must have been terribly frustrating for him and what he has said in the media didn't undermine Puel as he could have. 

 

When there is so much money in the game and a finite number of players who can cut it in the premier league like it or not the power is in the hands of players however to their credit I see no lack of effort. 

[LCFCSOULBOY]

Sadly he will not be the last. We will now see this in regular intervals. Unless FIFA stand by Sarri then we will see a lot more of this in the future. FIFA has to protect the manager not just the club. Any manager. any  manager should not be disrespected like he was. It was disgraceful. Chelsea should grab Keta fine him a massive amount. One that actually will hurt him and sit him on the bench or shift him off to the reserves. Mark my words if the FA or FIFA don't we will see a lot more of this.

[brucey]

 

[fuchsntf]

2 hours ago, Izzy said:

Sport must be one of the few 'businesses' where the players (staff) are paid more than the Manager (boss)

 

How many of us are paid more than our boss I wonder? It's a weird dynamic and while players earn more than their boss they probably feel they're more important.

 

Depends how you define 'player power' exactly but they certainly seem to have more influence and say than ever before.

 

 

I get more money than my boss..!!! If she asks for one more penny she can file for DIV..I

Please don't tell,I told you all!!!  

[Mendi]

Vardy punch the dressing room door, and got injured.

[sylofox]

28 minutes ago, LCFCSOULBOY said:

Sadly he will not be the last. We will now see this in regular intervals. Unless FIFA stand by Sarri then we will see a lot more of this in the future. FIFA has to protect the manager not just the club. Any manager. any  manager should not be disrespected like he was. It was disgraceful. Chelsea should grab Keta fine him a massive amount. One that actually will hurt him and sit him on the bench or shift him off to the reserves. Mark my words if the FA or FIFA don't we will see a lot more of this.

Maximum club fine is two weeks wages. Its the football league that need to hand out the punishment. Five game ban for a disrepute charge. 

[LCFCSOULBOY]

2 hours ago, sylofox said:

Maximum club fine is two weeks wages. Its the football league that need to hand out the punishment. Five game ban for a disrepute charge. 

Absolutely. But need to be stamped out immediately

[BoyJones]

You only get so called player power with a weak manager. SAF and our own NP would laugh in your face. 

 

 

[StriderHiryu]

3 hours ago, Red Squirrel said:

I haven't seen any evidence that our players were not putting in the effort. In fact they carried out Puel's tactics to the letter! Fair play to Vardy as well, the number of times he has made a run where in the past a ball into space would have caused havoc but it was passed sideways to end up in a cross 5 mins later when 6' 3 defenders were set and it sailed over Vardys head. It must have been terribly frustrating for him and what he has said in the media didn't undermine Puel as he could have. 

 

When there is so much money in the game and a finite number of players who can cut it in the premier league like it or not the power is in the hands of players however to their credit I see no lack of effort. 

Totally agree with this post. With Ranieri I felt the players did give up, the away match to Southampton being the main one where we were 3 down and Vardy was joking with the Southampton players comes to mind. But this time I’ve felt the players have tried and even in our latest defeat after equalising the whole team seemed buoyed and motivated to win. 

 

Sometimes Managers and teams aren’t good fits. Carlo Ancelotti has won titles in France, Italy and England but never gelled with Bayern Munich. Mourinho and Van Gaal have won the Champions League but failed at Man United, Capello was one of the best managers in Italy but struggled with England, etc, etc. I think that a bit like Mourinho that the style of play doesn’t naturally fit with the team in question and so to change it you have to be an excellent communicator to get players to buy into a new way of thinking which clearly didn’t work. 

 

Obviously Puel is not on the level of the other managers in that list but is still a decent coach. But him leaving is the right decision. His first poor result was a 0-3 reverse to Crystal Palace and 14 months later with many of his own players brought in, we got beat 1-4. We’ve literally gone backwards since last season and it’s time for a new era. 

[inckley fox]

5 hours ago, brucey said:

The player power here is partly a part of Pearson’s legacy where he encouraged players to speak up in a democratic environment and almost “self manage”. It helped us win the league, we may not have done so without it.

At the time of the Ranieri sacking I felt that the player power involved spoke up for the good of the club, as we were clearly getting relegated if we kept him.

No player power involved in the Shakespeare sacking, they clearly liked him but just became complacent and unmotivated after a while.

Now with the Puel sacking clearly having player power involved again, I’m not sure what to think. How much player power is too much? Without any of us actually being behind the scenes, we don’t know how much Puel is at fault, and how much is just some players not liking him. But it is starting to feel uncomfortable.

I agree with a lot of this, especially regarding how Pearson encouraged player power, which is part of the reason why the transition to Ranieri was so smooth, and why we won the league. It makes sense that our players are more involved than they would be at other clubs, even if it's something which is tricky for a manager to handle at times. If you have a problem with that, you should really direct it to the upper echelons of the club, and Vichai even, who fostered that kind of relationship. I doubt it was a major factor in Ranieri's exit regardless of the totally discredited media gossip, and the only players who openly clashed with Shakespeare, to  my mind, were Drinkwater, when he was sold, and Gray when his agent held talks with the board behind the boss's back. The old guard had nothing to do with it.

 

I'm not so sure that 'player power' is responsible for Puel's exit either. You can point to far too many own goals on his part, for starters, and until very late in the game on Saturday I think our effort levels were very good, and have been for a long time. That there is discontent behind the scenes I don't doubt, but the manager's unusual decision-making has been a far more obvious factor when things have gone wrong this season. You can pinpoint the errors in team selection, substitutions, systems. You can only really judge the players on how they perform and, while Vardy's not been in top form, I think the players as a whole have put in shifts for their manager.

 

As for whether we should continue to encourage players to have such a prominent voice, that's another matter. I'd have thought that if you have characters like Schmeichel and Morgan who appear to have earned that kind of voice, then with strict limitations it can work. It's happened at a huge number of big clubs down the years. Perhaps the problem is more when you extend that to - for example - King, Simpson, Gray, Fuchs, James... a whole host of players who are in and out of the side, but feel they have the right to go above the manager - I can imagine that's not a situation which can't go on for long.

[Deeg67]

For all the stick he takes around here, as least Morgan has never resorted to undercutting the manager through social media and the press via his wife or his father.  As far as actual evidence is to be believed, he's never been a clubhouse lawyer either.

[Dahnsouff]

4 hours ago, inckley fox said:

As for whether we should continue to encourage players to have such a prominent voice, that's another matter. I'd have thought that if you have characters like Schmeichel and Morgan who appear to have earned that kind of voice, then with strict limitations it can work. It's happened at a huge number of big clubs down the years. Perhaps the problem is more when you extend that to - for example - King, Simpson, Gray, Fuchs, James... a whole host of players who are in and out of the side, but feel they have the right to go above the manager - I can imagine that's not a situation which can't go on for long.

Understand what you are saying, but how long does this earned credit last? Whilst as a club we don’t see a flagrant disrespect for the manager, like with Chelsea yesterday, this underlying discontent (reported at least) seems too real to be totally disregarded.

The manager is the guy (or gal) who makes the decisions, and lives and dies by them. So whilst I agree that fostering a strong team ethos is very beneficial, it also needs to be clear from within the club that it has its limits.

Am I trying to excuse Puel? No, he has either totally misjudged the team situation or been unable to work within such a team environment.

Morning rant time.

As for the media, well I long gave up on any efforts to divine truth from their reporting as their mandate is at odds with what some fans want to know.

Any entity that expects to be regarded as a point of truth, but will flagrantly make a new truth to achieve its own end is not worth accepting as anything other than an attention seeking spoilt child.

[CosbehFox]

It’s been happening for years. Alan Shearer famously told the Newcastle board ‘I’m leaving unless you get rid of Gullit’ 

 

As soon as players earned more than managers they became the more tangible asset 

[davieG]

I think the crowd got Puel sacked, I don't  believe the club really wanted to as he was part of an agreed strategy that would take time to implement and succeed.

 

The massive discontent  by a very large section of the crowd and the constant negative comments on the club's own social media sites must have had a big influence on the decision. 

 

The club is a business and although results are important plenty of businesses going through change experience aN expected  downturn in performance in the short term but with a view to a longer term gain.

 

However image is also very important and that was suffering badly and must have been the last thing they would want from a business perspective and in the light of Vichai's passing and ongoing mourning. 

[Guest Col city fan]

10 hours ago, Izzy said:

Sport must be one of the few 'businesses' where the players (staff) are paid more than the Manager (boss)

 

How many of us are paid more than our boss I wonder? It's a weird dynamic and while players earn more than their boss they probably feel they're more important.

 

Depends how you define 'player power' exactly but they certainly seem to have more influence and say than ever before.

 

 

I’d not considered it like that before... very true

[Chester Dontlie]

I'm just glad we don't have the monumental (and massively overrated) ***** of Kepa's calibre at the club. I just saw the Chelsea game highlights, obviously they now cover it up as misunderstanding, but it was absolutely inexplicable and inexcusable from the goalie. I didn't remember him and initially thought he was some 17 year old 2nd or 3rd choice goalie but that's actually a genuine, grossly overpaid 24 year old first choice goalkeeping primadonna. HIlarious situation for a neutral, glad it's not happening to us. Compared to Kepa our supposedly 'venomous' Kasper is a teddy bear. 

 

I don't think it's the players who did this to Puel, I never saw any sign of disobedience, disinterest on the pitch or frustration towards the manager. There was no twitter talk from frustrated players or worrying things being said between the lines like it happens at Chelsea or other teams. And I also don't believe it's the fans' discontent what decided. The guy did this to himself, by his tactical stubbornness and most importantly by losing too many games (and a lot of them were very poor showing), which is a reason to sack any manager, even the previous season's title winner like Ranieri. Contrary to the Italian miracle man, apart from his first few weeks, Puel was a mediocre manager at best (to me his peak was his first Southampton game, from then on, it went downhill with an odd bump up on the road), and at worst, a terrible one. That his motivational and man managenement skills were non-existent was evident from the day one, so it's not a surprise to hear about it.

 

I believe we have a squad good enough to place in top 8 (not this season, obviously) and I'm looking forward to see our lads' reaction on the pitch, hopefully it will be a positive one.

Thanks to Top, for the first time in months many supporters can be excited about Leicester City's immediate future and upcoming games. It's a bad time of the season to sack the manager, and the season itself was already very difficult because of the tragedy that happened, but we still have an 8-points cushion which separates us from the bottom three, so let's hope for the best.

[Izzy]

12 hours ago, brucey said:

The player power here is partly a part of Pearson’s legacy where he encouraged players to speak up in a democratic environment and almost “self manage”. It helped us win the league, we may not have done so without it.

At the time of the Ranieri sacking I felt that the player power involved spoke up for the good of the club, as we were clearly getting relegated if we kept him.

No player power involved in the Shakespeare sacking, they clearly liked him but just became complacent and unmotivated after a while.

Now with the Puel sacking clearly having player power involved again, I’m not sure what to think. How much player power is too much? Without any of us actually being behind the scenes, we don’t know how much Puel is at fault, and how much is just some players not liking him. But it is starting to feel uncomfortable.

It's interesting in Rugby that it's all about players 'self managing' and taking responsibility.

 

Rugby teams have their own 'leadership groups' too among the senior players and everyone buys in to this philosophy.

 

Yet at the same time, players are clear who the boss is and they don't fvck with the coach. The respect is there and you rarely if ever hear about 'player power' in Rugby.

 

Maybe it's because they're paid less than footballers or not as high profile or pampered. I dunno, but Rugby seems to have the balance right and football maybe not...

[KrefelderFox666]

10 hours ago, Red Squirrel said:

I haven't seen any evidence that our players were not putting in the effort. In fact they carried out Puel's tactics to the letter! Fair play to Vardy as well, the number of times he has made a run where in the past a ball into space would have caused havoc but it was passed sideways to end up in a cross 5 mins later when 6' 3 defenders were set and it sailed over Vardys head. It must have been terribly frustrating for him and what he has said in the media didn't undermine Puel as he could have. 

 

When there is so much money in the game and a finite number of players who can cut it in the premier league like it or not the power is in the hands of players however to their credit I see no lack of effort. 

I think there are certain elements where player's are de-motivated and perform poorly (like Mourinho and Pogba). However, I think this time, for us, it was more that Puel's tactics were foreign to a lot of the squad and it took them a long time to try and understand (and actually, I don't think a lot got it at all, certainly not as one team). It was more that players were unsure what they were doing and uncomfortable, therefore, not performing. It certainly wasn't them not bothering and putting the effort in. Puel should have realised this and changed, had a Plan B. Unfortunately, the lack of that cost him the job.

[Babylon]

Can't say the players ever looked like they downed tools, but I'd also say he has had a huge amount to deal with in terms of aging players and flops being phased out. Having so many people against you would be nigh on impossible to deal with. The next manager will walk into a club that loses many of them in the summer with a bit more of a fresh start.

[Bert]

7 hours ago, BoyJones said:

You only get so called player power with a weak manager. SAF and our own NP would laugh in your face. 

 

 

That’s down to the standards those men set and the respect they demand. 

[womp]

i'm struggling to understand why on earth a manager should have to motivate the players.

isnt playing the game you love at a high level or keeping your spot enough.

[Jimmy]

5 hours ago, womp said:

i'm struggling to understand why on earth a manager should have to motivate the players.

isnt playing the game you love at a high level or keeping your spot enough.

you'd be surprised how many professional footballers don't particularly like it and it's just an extremely well paid job to them

[dylanlegend]

The game is different now, players do have a lot of power and they can thank the vast sums of money they earn. Years ago players didn’t have much choice, they weren’t paid much so couldn’t re-locate at the drop of a hat. 

 

Especially if they are good and well respected / wanted.

 

Of course Vardy and Kasper have some kind of influence and to be fair they have a right to go above Puels head if they think his methods aren’t working (I.e. lack of intensity in training etc) it shows they care about the future of the club. 

 

I don’t think it necessarily means they want the manager sacked but the managers most important job is keeping the players happy, making sure the environment is a good place to be and ensuring the club is progressing. 

 

I think the the reason I like Pearson so much is that I always felt the club was progressing under his leadership and I think this is what makes the players as well as the fans happy. 

 

As as long as we employ a progressive manager I’ll be happy 

[dylanlegend]

6 hours ago, Izzy said:

It's interesting in Rugby that it's all about players 'self managing' and taking responsibility.

 

Rugby teams have their own 'leadership groups' too among the senior players and everyone buys in to this philosophy.

 

Yet at the same time, players are clear who the boss is and they don't fvck with the coach. The respect is there and you rarely if ever hear about 'player power' in Rugby.

 

Maybe it's because they're paid less than footballers or not as high profile or pampered. I dunno, but Rugby seems to have the balance right and football maybe not...

I’ve read a number of football autobiographies lately and I think it’s more like this in football than we think, it’s just because football is more popular so journalists sensationalise everything more, making us think there’s more to stuff than meets the eye, whereas in reality, there isn’t. 

[Ian Nacho]

The players never 'downed tools' for the manager.