Premier League Thread 2019/20

[lestajigs]

2 hours ago, UniFox21 said:

Interesting listening to the comments Sterling has made re Gerrard, Lampard, Campbell and Ashley Cole in management opportunities.

Gerrard having worked his way through the Liverpool academy coaching before being given the Rangers opportunity, Lampard given the Derby job through some help of his Uncle Harry Redknapp before being given the Chelsea job due to his playing career, Campbell has managed at a lower level and if he continues to achieve, you'd assume he'd be given an opportunity higher up. Hasn't Cole just retired?

Understand the comments Sterling was making, personally think the change needs to come from within and instead of using the Rooney rule, clubs should encourage BAME players to stay on coaching following their playing days and gain experience that way, similar to Kolo Toure. 

Are we going down the line here that just because the manager is black he should be given a job straight at top management, a job should be given on merit not colour of skin, it really irritates me in jobs were you have to balance it out on racial equality not merit, its just dam unlucky that not many black managers that have come through, haven’t really set the world alight, paul ince, sol, chris houghton, and even there was shout when houghton was sacked it was because he was black, not because he actually wasn’t great, 

[UniFox21]

1 minute ago, lestajigs said:

Are we going down the line here that just because the manager is black he should be given a job straight at top management, a job should be given on merit not colour of skin, it really irritates me in jobs were you have to balance it out on racial equality not merit, its just dam unlucky that not many black managers that have come through, haven’t really set the world alight, paul ince, sol, chris houghton, and even there was shout when houghton was sacked it was because he was black, not because he actually wasn’t great, 

They need to focus on bringing players/coaches through the system, encouraging players into coaching rather than selecting people purely through the colour of their skin

[Fox92]

9 minutes ago, lestajigs said:

Are we going down the line here that just because the manager is black he should be given a job straight at top management, a job should be given on merit not colour of skin, it really irritates me in jobs were you have to balance it out on racial equality not merit, its just dam unlucky that not many black managers that have come through, haven’t really set the world alight, paul ince, sol, chris houghton, and even there was shout when houghton was sacked it was because he was black, not because he actually wasn’t great, 

Chris Hughton has done relatively well wherever he's been and never says it's due to his skin colour when he gets a job or gets sack. He seems a nice bloke tbf.

[coolhandfox]

1 hour ago, lestajigs said:

Are we going down the line here that just because the manager is black he should be given a job straight at top management, a job should be given on merit not colour of skin, it really irritates me in jobs were you have to balance it out on racial equality not merit, its just dam unlucky that not many black managers that have come through, haven’t really set the world alight, paul ince, sol, chris houghton, and even there was shout when houghton was sacked it was because he was black, not because he actually wasn’t great, 

But that's all they want, to be treated on merit, they aren't asking for any more than that 

 

We have 92 league clubs and around 4 Black, Asian and minority ethnic managers, you can't tell me there are only 4 that merit a opportunity? 

 

You fail to mention all 100's of white managers who haven't set the world a light, what has the failures of Ince, Campbell Houghton got to do with the merits off other BAME managerial candidates? 

Edited 10 June 2020 by coolhandfox

[Footballwipe]

Isn't the whole point that if there is systemic racism and bias within the game, whether that be NFL, football or whatever, BAME managers/coaches get nowhere near the door in the first place?

 

Any such rules to see at least one BAME interviewed would give them the opportunity present themselves. No-one is saying give them the job, it's saying "give them an opportunity to be a candidate for the job" and see where it goes.

[lestajigs]

10 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

Chris Hughton has done relatively well wherever he's been and never says it's due to his skin colour when he gets a job or gets sack. He seems a nice bloke tbf.

Fair play

[foxes_rule1978]

2 minutes ago, Footballwipe said:

Isn't the whole point that if there is systemic racism and bias within the game, whether that be NFL, football or whatever, BAME managers/coaches get nowhere near the door in the first place?

 

Any such rules to see at least one BAME interviewed would give them the opportunity present themselves. No-one is saying give them the job, it's saying "give them an opportunity to be a candidate for the job" and see where it goes.

Yes I agree with this, there are not enough opportunities, and they get overlooked too easily. So having such a rule ,certainly opens up a path that gives BAME’s an even platform to show what they are about. 

[Fox92]

14 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

But that's all they want, to be treated on merit, they aren't asking for any more than that 

 

We have 92 league clubs and around 4 Black, Asian and minority ethnic managers, you can't tell me there are only 4 that merit a opportunity? 

 

You fail to mention all 100's of white managers who haven't set the world a light, what hat the failures of Ince, Campbell Houghton got to do with the merits off other BAME managerial candidates? 

Come on, they're just examples he was using aren't they.

 

Sol Campbell is manager of Southend atm anyway. (* edit: before anybody says anything, I'm not justifying).

Edited 10 June 2020 by Fox92

[Sharpe's Fox]

For me my opinion changed of shortlisting BAME managers came after Darren Moore was sacked at West Brom last year. I could not for the life of me honestly believe that if that was someone like Nigel Pearson or another white manger they would have gone like Moore did.

[davieG]

Beware of those bearing gifts?

 

Sky and BT slash prices as Leicester City fans benefit from TV price war
Prices have been reduced by up to 50 per cent across Sky Sports, Now TV and BT Sports

ByConnor O'NeillSteve Nicholson
11:14, 10 JUN 2020UPDATED13:27, 10 JUN 2020


Leicester City do not have long to wait until their Premier League season restarts.

The campaign will resume on Wednesday, June 17, with two games -

Aston Villa v Sheffield United (6pm on Sky TV) and Manchester City v Arsenal (8.15pm on Sky TV).

Leicester's first game is at Watford on Saturday, June 20, kick off 12.30pm. The match is being shown on BT Sports.

Sky Sports, NOW TV and BT Sports have launched a price war ahead of the football action resuming this month.

 

Fans will now be able to get a NOW TV Sky Sports Month Pass for £20 a month instead of paying £39.99 a month.

While BT Sport’s Big Sport package has been slashed from £40 to £20 a month, and Sky Sports have also trimmed the cost of their Sky TV and Sky Sports bundle from £48 to £39 a month.

“Football fans are drooling at the thought of the Premier League returning on June 17, and there are some great offers that will reduce the costs of watching the next three months of action,” Nick Baker, TV expert at Uswitch.com, said on the offers available.

“NOW TV’s Sky Sports Month Pass has been reduced from £33.99 to just £20 a month for the three months until the end of the Premier League season, which looks like brilliant value for money.

“For just £60, you can get all 64 of the Premier League matches on Sky Sports. That’s less than a pound per game. The offer ends on June 14, so act now if you’re interested.

“The package will renew automatically at the end of the three months at £33.99 a month, so put a note in your calendar to remind yourself to cancel your subscription if you don't want it to continue.

“Meanwhile, BT Sport has halved the monthly cost of its Big Sport and Sport packages for the remaining three months of the Premier League season.

“The Big Sport package - which includes all the Sky Sports channels from the NOW TV Sky Sports pass - has had its price cut from £40 to £20 a month.

“The slimmed-down Sport package, which only includes the BT Sport channels, has been reduced from £15 a month to £7.50.”

But Baker also warned supporters that by committing to the current deals on offer they would be committing to a 24-month contract and that prices will return to their normal level after three-months.

“Be aware that you are signing up for a 24-month contract, and the prices revert to the normal level after the initial three-month offer period,” he added.

“For those who only want to watch the end of the Premier League season, BT Sport’s £25 monthly pass may be a better option, since it can be cancelled at any time.

[Aus Fox]

1 minute ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

For me my opinion changed of shortlisting BAME managers came after Darren Moore was sacked at West Brom last year. I could not for the life of me honestly believe that if that was someone like Nigel Pearson or another white manger they would have gone like Moore did.

Don’t talk daft, countless managers have been sacked in a similar fashion. The facts are they were bottling automatic promotion, I think they had only won 3 or 4 games for the year and gone out the FA Cup.

They had a squad on Premier League wages, and needed to go up, so rightly or wrongly decided a change of manager is what they needed to push them over the line. It didn’t work out for them, do you honestly believe they would risk the money available in the PL because the manager was black? 

[coolhandfox]

29 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

Come on, they're just examples he was using aren't they.

 

Sol Campbell is manager of Southend atm anyway. (* edit: before anybody says anything, I'm not justifying).

Example of what?

 

The sentence was:  "Its just dam unlucky that not many black managers that have come through, haven’t really set the world alight, paul ince, sol, chris houghton"

 

All am asking is what has the failures of those managers got to do with the merits of others?

 

 

[Stadt]

39 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

For me my opinion changed of shortlisting BAME managers came after Darren Moore was sacked at West Brom last year. I could not for the life of me honestly believe that if that was someone like Nigel Pearson or another white manger they would have gone like Moore did.

If it was racially motivated presumably they wouldn’t have given him the job in the first place? 

[Nalis]

I actually think Houghton is a half decent manager for his level, was unfairly dismissed at Newcastle, Norwich and to a lesser extent Brighton though admittedly they were on the downward trajectory. 

[lestajigs]

Just now, Nalis said:

I actually think Houghton is a half decent manager for his level, was unfairly dismissed at Newcastle, Norwich and to a lesser extent Brighton though admittedly they were on the downward trajectory. 

Would you take him over Nigel pearson? (I dont mean sexual neither)

[Fox92]

12 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Example of what?

 

The sentence was:  "Its just dam unlucky that not many black managers that have come through, haven’t really set the world alight, paul ince, sol, chris houghton"

 

All am asking is what has the failures of those managers got to do with the merits of others?

 

 

Examples of other black managers. And as I stated Hughton shouldn't be included with them, he's a decent manager.

 

The failures of those managers haven't got anything to do with the merits of others, you're right. But it's only in the same way when we're linked with a player from France, for example, we compare them to previous players we've had here. He was just comparing because the colour of skin hasn't nothing to do with ability.

 

(reading that back I think I lost myself somewhere in all that).

Edited 10 June 2020 by Fox92

[coolhandfox]

2 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

Examples of other black managers. And as I stated Hughton shouldn't be included with them, he's a decent manager.

 

The failures of those managers haven't got anything to do with the merits of others, you're right. But it's only in the same way when we're linked with a player from France, for example, we compare them to previous players we've had here. He was just comparing because the colour of skin hasn't nothing to do with ability.

 

(reading that back I think I lost myself somewhere in all that).

Maybe it the way I've read the sentence, it made it sound like we haven't got BAME managers because of the failures of Ince et al. 

 

Which is why I asked the question.

 

Should we really be comparing players and managers on the colour of there skin or where they are from?

 

Not attacking anyone by the way, just interested in peoples views? 

[OntarioFox]

5 hours ago, pmcla26 said:

It won’t when Liverpool fans are involved, they’ll find a way to cock it up for everyone else

1. Liverpool win the game and the league
2. Scousers both in Liverpool and up and down the country do stupid sh*t and undermine the restart
3. FA says stuff it and cancels the league after all, since there are still games to play
4. Trophy rescinded
5. Everyone laughs at Liverpool 

3 hours ago, shen said:

Let's wait and see regarding those players. On paper it looks good, but history has shown how Chelsea have failed to get the best out of promising/good players, most notably of course Salah, de Bruyne and Lukaku in recent years.

I honestly did not know Salah had played for Chelsea until I was bored watching FA Cup highlights on Youtube, and watched him get turned inside out by Jon Stead during Bradford's win at Stamford Bridge. 

Edited 10 June 2020 by OntarioFox

[UpTheLeagueFox]

1 hour ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

For me my opinion changed of shortlisting BAME managers came after Darren Moore was sacked at West Brom last year. I could not for the life of me honestly believe that if that was someone like Nigel Pearson or another white manger they would have gone like Moore did.

People say Graeme Jones, Moore's assistant, was a big problem at WBA. 
Was surprised he got the Luton job given what folk in football said.

[David Guiza]

With regard to BAME managers, I don't think any right minded person thinks any person in any profession should get a job because they are BAME, the issue is that they shouldn't be ignored for an opportunity because they are BAME. Sterling is right to raise the question on Campbell and Cole, compared with Gerrard and Lampard. All four of those players had fairly similar careers at the highest level, so it's no use comparing Campbell to say Nigel Pearson or Graham Potter who have had to work their way up to the top. It must be frustrating for Campbell to see his ex-England team mates be gifted jobs at big clubs, regardless of what you think of Derby of Rangers. Lampard walked into the Derby job, a top 6 club in the second tier of English football, got them into the exact same position that the previous manager did, and then walked into a traditional top 6 job. Meanwhile Campbell worked miracles at Macclesfield and was rewarded with Southend. Whether or not that is a coincidence or something more is up for debate.

 

A similar argument is often made about women during sexism/equality arguments. You hear people say things along the lines of there being very few great female politicians, inventors, or whatever the role may be, and their conclusion from that is that they're not good enough, as opposed to noting that they've not been given the same opportunities, historically, as men. It defies logic that BAME managers would be any better or worse than white managers, unless you of the belief that they are naturally crap at the job as an entire race, which is absurd. 

 

I'm sure plenty of posters on here have been put off applying for a job or career in the past because they felt as though their face wouldn't it, and this is no different. I imagine you were to ask @UpTheLeagueFox about his career he would say that the face of sports journalism has changed over the past 20 years, and that's not because suddenly black and minority background journalists/ex pros are suddenly better at the job, it's because opportunities have opened up when they previously may not have done. My career is still heavily weighted towards a certain demographic, mainly because it can be a costly career to get into and, prior to student loans etc, it was incredibly difficult to get in to if you weren't the second/third/fourth generation to do so. 

 

 

 

[Foxin_Mad]

5 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

 

Should we really be comparing players and managers on the colour of there skin or where they are from?

 

Exactly. I question why we are even talking about it, we are creating an issue, creating divisions. There are an will always be racists, the majority of us are not racist.

 

Likewise we can not judge people who lived in the past on doing things that at that time were acceptable, whom may otherwise have been good people lacking the education and perspective we may have today. We just need to be better going forward.

 

Some managers are just crap, I couldn't careless what nationality/colour/sexuality my manager is or a player is, if he is good he will get my support, if hes crap he wont. Yes there are some morons who will never change but most people don't even consider this, I am sure. 

 

 

[Nalis]

1 hour ago, lestajigs said:

Would you take him over Nigel pearson? (I dont mean sexual neither)

Of course not but I'd take him over Farke, Potter, Smith and Moyes.

[UniFox21]

38 minutes ago, David Guiza said:

Sterling is right to raise the question on Campbell and Cole, compared with Gerrard and Lampard. All four of those players had fairly similar careers at the highest level, so it's no use comparing Campbell to say Nigel Pearson or Graham Potter who have had to work their way up to the top. It must be frustrating for Campbell to see his ex-England team mates be gifted jobs at big clubs, regardless of what you think of Derby of Rangers. Lampard walked into the Derby job, a top 6 club in the second tier of English football, got them into the exact same position that the previous manager did, and then walked into a traditional top 6 job. Meanwhile Campbell worked miracles at Macclesfield and was rewarded with Southend. Whether or not that is a coincidence or something more is up for debate.

I actually think the 4 names were poor examples to use. Gerrard worked through the Liverpool academy for a year or 2 prior to being given a punt at Rangers, who I think was more for his name and pull factor than anything. Lampard got a job through Uncle Harry, did well and for was given the Chelsea chance due to his career there. The 2 examples are far from common. Scholes for instance was given a shot at Oldham, Nevilles at Valencia (through knowing an owner) and England Women respectively. It's not as if all white players jump into high jobs. 

 

Ashley Cole for instance is a coach at Chelsea academy currently. Campbell has done well where he's been and you'd assume as he builds his rep. will be given more chances. But his rep. of being a dickhead doesn't help him out.

 

Think the biggest issue is progression through the coaching career ladders, which hopefully will begin to be sorted with more black players being given or offered coaching opportunities.

 

I think as well the rise of punditry will disuade a few from being coaches when they can make decent money chatting about football away from huge scrutiny.

Edited 10 June 2020 by UniFox21

[nnickn]

33 minutes ago, Foxin_Mad said:

Exactly. I question why we are even talking about it, we are creating an issue, creating divisions. There are an will always be racists, the majority of us are not racist.

 

Likewise we can not judge people who lived in the past on doing things that at that time were acceptable, whom may otherwise have been good people lacking the education and perspective we may have today. We just need to be better going forward.

 

Some managers are just crap, I couldn't careless what nationality/colour/sexuality my manager is or a player is, if he is good he will get my support, if hes crap he wont. Yes there are some morons who will never change but most people don't even consider this, I am sure.

Hallelujah

[Hammo]

Sterling and others suggesting that the lack of BAME managers in English football is a racist issue is an unjustified exploitation of the current agenda.
 

Where’s the hard evidence of any foul play? Quoting numbers is just lazy and expedient. Clubs want success, so they recruit on merit. If there was a great manager out there who happened to be black, like a Tiger Woods of football management, every club would be after him; race (as is the case with players) would be irrelevant. But there isn’t.

 

If a proven case ever emerges of a club deliberately shunning a managerial prospect - or sacking a manger - purely because of his skin colour, then obviously that would be as despicable as it is absurd. But until that happens, Sterling and co would be better advised to concentrate their efforts elsewhere - i.e. where there is actual proof of bigotry and discrimination.
 

The fight for equality and equal opportunity is just and should not be diluted by sweeping generalisations that can make victims out of innocents and therefore do more harm than good.

 

And as for Sterling saying that racism is “the only disease right now”, perhaps he would like to apologise for insulting the thousands upon thousands of people - of all colours and creeds - who have lost loved ones to the dreaded Covid-19, a work colleague of mine among them.