Premier League Thread 2019/20

[Ric Flair]

2 minutes ago, casablancas said:

I think the issue goes a little deeper than that. But we will see in the near future if what you say holds true. But don’t you find it odd that for all the Top top black players there has been in the past distant and near yet there hasn’t been any elite coaches? At least none that I can recall off the top of my head. Yes I am sure you can spend time googling it to prove me wrong. But this is the issue for a lot of people, why has this proven to be the case ? 

There's definitely something that's preventing it. I also think it's occurring lower down the system, at non-league level. There are so many lesser known coaches and managers who work their way up the divisions rather than just being given a decent gig because they were a top player and there are very few that of BAME origin. I really hope this improves and paves the way, I know Kolo Toure is highly regarded as a coach and I hope other ex players have the motivation to try and succeed as a coach and manager in the game.

[casablancas]

2 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

There's definitely something that's preventing it. I also think it's occurring lower down the system, at non-league level. There are so many lesser known coaches and managers who work their way up the divisions rather than just being given a decent gig because they were a top player and there are very few that of BAME origin. I really hope this improves and paves the way, I know Kolo Toure is highly regarded as a coach and I hope other ex players have the motivation to try and succeed as a coach and manager in the game.

Don’t get me started on lower levels . But for people to say there isn’t problem or make light of it doesn’t help. Yes i am more than happy to listen to opinions and the views of others ... but the stats speak for themselves. Like you I do hope for a change. I worry that a lot of black ex pro’s will think ... why bother. 

[Mickyblueeyes]

1 hour ago, Dan.Reynolds said:

On the subject of black managers, it isn't because the colour of their skin, it just boils down to the fact, that they haven't been any good.

 

 

I think that may be the problem right there. A person is classed with their skin colour in terms of comparisons instead of their achievements in the game. 
 

One thing that has to be recognised is that black coaches/managers do feel they’re not getting the same opportunities as their white counterparts. Whether that be on the playing side of the game or in coaching/management. Whether there is a genuine issue of discrimination or not, the issue cannot boil down to an argument that “they” are not very good. It needs to be understood why such a prominent group and a community which contributes so much to the game feels that way.
 

I think the best example I’ve read of someone being indirectly treated differently is the Sol Campbell story. He approached management around the same time as Gerrard and Lampard. Gerrard gets Rangers, Lampard gets Derby while Sol ends up at Macclesfield. Sol Campbell is arguably the best central defender of his generation. Apart from the Champions League, there is nothing the other two have achieved that he hasn’t. His contacts alone should entice smaller championship clubs to him and it’s genuine question for Sol to ask why he wasn’t as appealing to such clubs as Gerrard and Lampard. 

 

It does sort of raise the argument whether the game is indirectly set up for ethic minorities to fail compared to their white counterparts - whether this is factually true or not, is the question and needs to be investigated. 

[Steve_Walsh5]

Sol Campbell is weirdo, you ever heard the way he speaks. The bloke is a fruit loop.

[UniFox21]

 

Whilst Liverpool do have free reign over the team they select, I agree in terms of the statement Klopp made. Nothing will be done, but his little protest over scheduling potentially impacted a smaller teams revenue.

 

To clarify the FA could've stopped all this happening by just rescheduling the game, so the real blame ends with them

Edited 11 June 2020 by UniFox21

[Dan.Reynolds]

45 minutes ago, Steve_Walsh5 said:

Sol Campbell is weirdo, you ever heard the way he speaks. The bloke is a fruit loop.

Very much so.

 

Everyone is against him. Or so he seems to think...

[JJD_LCFC]

The issue I have is middle aged white managers who have been in the game forever without ever really doing well always seem to get jobs, whereas a Chris Powell or Chris Houghton has one bad stint, if at all, and that is it. 

 

Alex McLeish + Steve Mclaren for example. Always get employed at decent levels in the game yet barely do any good. 

[HighPeakFox]

8 minutes ago, Dan.Reynolds said:

Very much so.

 

Everyone is against him. Or so he seems to think...

Welcome Dan. Tell us about the Leicester players you love.

[Bert]

26 minutes ago, Dan.Reynolds said:

Very much so.

 

Everyone is against him. Or so he seems to think...

He’d have captained England for ten years if he wasn’t black he says. 

[Ric Flair]

2 hours ago, casablancas said:

Don’t get me started on lower levels . But for people to say there isn’t problem or make light of it doesn’t help. Yes i am more than happy to listen to opinions and the views of others ... but the stats speak for themselves. Like you I do hope for a change. I worry that a lot of black ex pro’s will think ... why bother. 

Exactly, that has and likely still is weighing heavily on the minds of recently retired BAME footballers or who have been involved in coaching and or helping out and otherwise might harbour an interest in proper coaching.

[UniFox21]

Alli banned for a game for his racist stereotyping video in February

[StanSP]

 

 

[UniFox21]

5 minutes ago, StanSP said:

 

 

Personally think he's got off a tad lightly, given the racial stereotyping aspects of the video and how severe corona virus is.

[SouthStandUpperTier]

1 minute ago, UniFox21 said:

Personally think he's got off a tad lightly, given the racial stereotyping aspects of the video and how severe corona virus is.

He'll never get a statue though. That'll learn'im!

[RowlattsFox]

I'd be interested to see the figures on qualified black coaches. I think the bigger issue is encouraging black players to go down the coaching route and then into management. There is probably a lot of players who just don't bother, whether that's because they don't think they will get a chance or they are actively discriminated against. I'd like to hear from current coaches who are in the game who feel they are ignored because they are black, I don't think it helps that Sol Campbell is always rolled out as the example, but maybe that's the point?

 

Its not something that can be resolved instantly, I do perhaps naively believe its a generational thing and in 10/15 years time we will see more black managers as a reflection of the more diverse football player world we have now. At risk of racial stereotyping, I do think there is element of cultural differences which mean black players are less likely to stay in football when they retire, and follow other passions, whether that be fashion or whatever (probably wrong but just an opinion)

 

I agree with Sterling, when he said there needs to be more representation within coaching staff, even if it isn't the manager. And most definitely within the FA.

[1972 Fox]

1 hour ago, HighPeakFox said:

Welcome Dan. Tell us about the Leicester players you love.

From his first few posts Zsolt Laczkó appears to be one of them!

[UniFox21]

 

Really like this, hopefully the jerseys can be auctioned and sold to raise money for both causes.

[Blue ROI]

8 hours ago, Sly said:

I saw Dwight Yorke has said “we’ve not seen a black manager in the Premier League”.
 

Ruud Gullit, John Tiganna & Paul Ince

He’s wrong of course but the list isn’t great. Any more that spring to mind? 

 

 

Ian Coates 

[Jaspa]

1 hour ago, UniFox21 said:

Personally think he's got off a tad lightly, given the racial stereotyping aspects of the video and how severe corona virus is.

 

Especially seeing our Bobby was given a fine and two matches for this

 

 

 

Unrelated but, I know it's inevitable politics are going to blur further and further into sport given the money and cultural relevance it holds but I really wish it wouldn't. With Corona virus it's a had a direct impact on the sport, with the 'Rooney Rule' ect. maybe there is some inherent, ingrained power structure favouring some, but as far as I can tell the reason Paul Ince doesn't get manager roles any more is cause he's not very good at them and the jobs will always go to those who clubs see as best suited to running their team - it's nothing to do with skin colour.

 

Maybe I'm getting old. In my school it was very multi-ethnic, never really any problems. We were taught and understood that skin colour/ethnic background is just that and it's the people's personality, character and ability which ultimately makes them who they are. To me it seems American politics often makes everything about race(for a number of reasons[divide & conquer, more spread out insulated communities ect.]) and most of the world just loves to take onboard whatevers being spoken about in the USA.

 

Maybe politics in football has always been there and I've only started noticing as much. I hope the world develops into a nicer place for everyone and sport stays at just that.

[Tuna]

 

[Tuna]

9 hours ago, Sly said:

I saw Dwight Yorke has said “we’ve not seen a black manager in the Premier League”.
 

Ruud Gullit, John Tiganna & Paul Ince

He’s wrong of course but the list isn’t great. Any more that spring to mind? 

I’m surprised a club never dabbled on Frank Rijkaard.

 

Chris Ramsey.

[Lambert09]

People like sol Campbell cheapen the cause. Advocate for others, not yourself. If someone else was questioning it, you could argue it but simply he is deluded. 

 

Imo our Wes is going to make a fantastic manager one day. Calming presence but not someone you’d mess with. Liked by everyone. I can genuinely see him being great if that’s what he want after football. 

 

If any of you watched the Simpson podcast it was interesting to hear him say that him and Wes would shout at each other for the whole game. Many on here question his leadership because he doesn’t loose his rag and show Pashun... like kasper does. So it was nice to hear that he does have bollockings in his locker.

 

My opinion is that the players get more from his approach to the raving looney approach. But he’ll always be knocked for it. 

Edited 11 June 2020 by Lambert09

[Angus Scott]

20 minutes ago, Tuna said:

 

What a joke. Incredible to think that someone may be earning a living for dreaming up things like this.

I suppose when we actually get back to watching a game at the KP we'll have to take the knee for 8 minutes odd before the game starts.

[UniFox21]

2 minutes ago, Angus Scott said:

What a joke. Incredible to think that someone may be earning a living for dreaming up things like this.

I suppose when we actually get back to watching a game at the KP we'll have to take the knee for 8 minutes odd before the game starts.

What are you on about? 

 

If this raises awareness about racism and helps push the message that it won't be tolerated, then it's a great idea. They're having badges thanking the NHS on the front as well. 

[BrummieFOX]

1 hour ago, Jaspa said:

 

Especially seeing our Bobby was given a fine and two matches for this

 

 

 

Unrelated but, I know it's inevitable politics are going to blur further and further into sport given the money and cultural relevance it holds but I really wish it wouldn't. With Corona virus it's a had a direct impact on the sport, with the 'Rooney Rule' ect. maybe there is some inherent, ingrained power structure favouring some, but as far as I can tell the reason Paul Ince doesn't get manager roles any more is cause he's not very good at them and the jobs will always go to those who clubs see as best suited to running their team - it's nothing to do with skin colour.

 

Maybe I'm getting old. In my school it was very multi-ethnic, never really any problems. We were taught and understood that skin colour/ethnic background is just that and it's the people's personality, character and ability which ultimately makes them who they are. To me it seems American politics often makes everything about race(for a number of reasons[divide & conquer, more spread out insulated communities ect.]) and most of the world just loves to take onboard whatevers being spoken about in the USA.

 

Maybe politics in football has always been there and I've only started noticing as much. I hope the world develops into a nicer place for everyone and sport stays at just that.

I think I would find it hard to believe that the only reason that there is only 6 non-white managers in the top 92 clubs is because black managers aren't very good.

 

I think there's quite a number of reasons why and not necessarily only because there is racial-bias at the decision making level. I think it would be difficult for young black managers to see a pathway for themselves and then (as Southgate said this week) probably harder for young black managers to get given the chance or an opportunity (hence the Rooney Rule). He said he got given the opportunity at Boro when he wasn't qualified and that probably wouldn't have been afforded to others. That rule is to try and level the playing field a little.