goody2028 Posted 23 June 2020 Share Posted 23 June 2020 Football should never be political for this exact reason ^ 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Posted 23 June 2020 Share Posted 23 June 2020 That is true as well, organisations would be best to stay neutral on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxin_Mad Posted 23 June 2020 Share Posted 23 June 2020 2 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said: We’ve been here before, so I’m not going to over go same ground repeatedly except this once. Why is the plane message viewed as a stunt yet the idiotic monument spray painting not judged as the same sort of stunt by an idiot? The language is emotive but you failing to read the sentence as a whole. We’re guided by a commitment to dismantle imperialism, capitalism, white-supremacy, patriarchy and the state structures that disproportionately harm black people in Britain and around the world. So it’s attacking the capitalism that disproportionately harms black people. Not capitalism as a whole. In fact your example of the Premier League is an example of a capitalism venture which has supported non-white communities. Your missing the point though what does that even mean? Attacking Capitalism that disproportionately harms black people? Banging on about imperialism (from which the which the whole of 2020 Britain benefits), White Supremacy?! Really?, Patriarchy again? Really the UK has had 2 female PMs, a vast range of senior politicians from different races - I would be interested to see how that one has played out amongst African Tribes and in the Caribbean. Capitalism that disproportionately harms black people, I don't think we even have evidence to suggest this 'a thing'? The real issue, why are we even discussing these things, which don't really 'mean' anything. There is a simple solution, discuss the rights and wrongs, be educated about peoples experiences and learn and improve them in the future. Britain has made huge steps forward, its on going. Is it perfect, of course not but we are way ahead of a lot of countries. The monument painting is a stunt by an idiot, absolutely. My issue is with the overall motives, they are not clear, are diluted by waffle and what could easily be perceived as a different agenda. Anyway its done now, the powers that be disagree. The masses disagree. Good luck. I hope it makes a difference. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch Posted 23 June 2020 Share Posted 23 June 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Chrysalis said: I have also noticed the passive aggressiveness towards people who are not openly supporting the group, people been accused of been racist just because they dont openly back it. You could say the EXACT same thing about wearing the poppy. It isn't in any way a negative in doing so though, is it? Edited 23 June 2020 by Foxy_Bear 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Posted 23 June 2020 Share Posted 23 June 2020 3 minutes ago, Foxy_Bear said: You could say the EXACT same thing about wearing the poppy. It isn't in any way a negative in doing so though, is it? Have people been called names for not wearing a poppy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch Posted 23 June 2020 Share Posted 23 June 2020 10 minutes ago, Chrysalis said: I think the motto should be "all lives matter" instead of "black lives matter" Saying black lives matter isn't saying that others don't. Like someone else said, highlighting the importance of breast cancer is not dismissing colon cancer, posting "manchester strong" after the manchester attack is not ignoring the attacks that happen all around the world.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxin_Mad Posted 23 June 2020 Share Posted 23 June 2020 12 minutes ago, Chrysalis said: I dont support racism, but I find BLM to have racist traits. Their web page before it got edited had all sorts of worrying things on it. They wanted to abolish the police. They pointed out they are an all black organisation at the leadership level as if they were proud of it. I think the motto should be "all lives matter" instead of "black lives matter", the latter was inevitably going to draw out the white extremist groups and a counter "white lives matter". There is also no concern for safety with the protests, lack of social distancing and some fights. I have also noticed the passive aggressiveness towards people who are not openly supporting the group, people been accused of been racist just because they dont openly back it. They act as if racism only works one way which is white people been racist to black people. There is a flawed view that if a race is statistically a loser in a situation then it is racism (systemic racism). Do they believe positive discrimination is ok? (positive discrimination is a form of racism). The best ideas and things to come out is not from the BLM group themselves but from journalists interviewing people, e.g. a muslim lady pointing out that she had to change her name to get job interviews which highlights that anonymous application forms (and cv) would be a good thing. The things that BLM believe in is a lot more than just trying reduce anti black racism, they have a very powerful agenda, and it makes corbyn look very passive by comparison. This exactly Racism is abhorrent. Personally I struggle to get behind BLM. There were protesters with signs saying 'Black Power' Is that not just role reversal? If we really want equality amongst all we shouldn't even be mentioning colour in my view. I look at a person as a person, I judge them by their personality and nothing else. I couldnt care less about race, sex, sexuality, age any of that. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch Posted 23 June 2020 Share Posted 23 June 2020 3 minutes ago, Chrysalis said: Have people been called names for not wearing a poppy? Absolutely. More so in the west coast of scotland were I'm from, if you don't wear a poppy you are saw as unpatriotic or even in some extremes, a supporter of organisations such as the IRA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighPeakFox Posted 23 June 2020 Share Posted 23 June 2020 Sadly, there are morons who support a variety of different positions, and they remain morons, whether that position is close to the one you yourself hold or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox92 Posted 23 June 2020 Share Posted 23 June 2020 I've always believed politics and football shouldn't mix. But I'm pleased Mee said what he said. However I can't believe people are questioning how many black players Burnley have had. Totally missing the point. This isn't about just giving a black player a job for the sake of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighPeakFox Posted 23 June 2020 Share Posted 23 June 2020 14 minutes ago, Fox92 said: I can't believe people are questioning how many black players Burnley have had. Totally missing the point. This isn't about just giving a black player a job for the sake of it. I don't think they are - I think Darren Bent has just had a mare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted 23 June 2020 Share Posted 23 June 2020 I didnt know Troy Deeney and his partner designed the BLM emblem for the shirts?,i’ve read that they are trademarking it ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HankMarvin Posted 23 June 2020 Share Posted 23 June 2020 7 minutes ago, Foxy_Bear said: Saying black lives matter isn't saying that others don't. Like someone else said, highlighting the importance of citiesbreast cancer is not dismissing colon cancer, posting "manchester strong" after the manchester attack is not ignoring the attacks that happen all around the world.... that example is like comparing Chalk with Cheese. The examples given have thousand of Cities, why would anyone feel like they are being alienated when Manchester is mentioned when there are another 4415 Cities not mentioned. 100 Types of Cancer. maybe if there was 100s of alternatives to the BLM Slogan, you would find less people need to say All lives matter or White lives matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dahnsouff Posted 23 June 2020 Share Posted 23 June 2020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nalis Posted 23 June 2020 Share Posted 23 June 2020 Spurs West Ham later - draw is probably a good balance of keeping Spurs at bay while keeping West Ham in trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch Posted 23 June 2020 Share Posted 23 June 2020 13 minutes ago, HankMarvin said: that example is like comparing Chalk with Cheese. The examples given have thousand of Cities, why would anyone feel like they are being alienated when Manchester is mentioned when there are another 4415 Cities not mentioned. 100 Types of Cancer. maybe if there was 100s of alternatives to the BLM Slogan, you would find less people need to say All lives matter or White lives matter. So how is it that "white lives matter" seems to be the only alternative when there are more than two races? How many Native American lives matter posts, or Asian lives matter tweets have you saw? So why do white folk feel so "alienated" when no other race gives a fuch..... I highly doubt a "Pacific islander lives matter" banner is being arranged for our game tonight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniFox21 Posted 23 June 2020 Share Posted 23 June 2020 14 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said: These stats i feel are a tad misleading. Do they include set pieces as chances for instance? Whilst he's no doubt a brilliant player, and not trying to take away from that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HankMarvin Posted 23 June 2020 Share Posted 23 June 2020 5 minutes ago, Foxy_Bear said: So how is it that "white lives matter" seems to be the only alternative when there are more than two races? How many Native American lives matter posts, or Asian lives matter tweets have you saw? So why do white folk feel so "alienated" when no other race gives a fuch..... I highly doubt a "Pacific islander lives matter" banner is being arranged for our game tonight! I guess it depends how hard you look... ignorance is bliss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Finnegan Posted 23 June 2020 Popular Post Share Posted 23 June 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Cardiff_Fox said: When we’ve had people claiming the BLM movement is some Marxist, leftist political thing. Choosing to side yourself on that plane message orchestrated by a EDL member and blatant racist....at what point do we say the counter arguments are led by far right, borderline fascists? Despite claims it’s a ‘normal’ response to BLM The only normal stance to BLM is to support it wholly tbqh. The only people that aren't are either 100% racist or, admittedly, uninformed and likely mislead by far right influencers on social media. The people who are verbally, actively kicking off in response to the movement are entirely racist. I don't see why anyone ever even felt the need to politicise it but it massively, massively exposes the alt right for what they are that they equate "don't be racist" and "police racism is a bad thing" to "the left" and "the opposition." The whole movement is a great opportunity for left and right to come together and say "you know what, this is nothing to do with party politics, doesn't matter where we are on the political spectrum, racism is bad." A great opportunity for conservative political parties and influencers to win Black votes by showing solidarity and siding with the cause. But Trump doubles down like a retard and all the little fascists of the world just skip along behind him outting themselves. Edit: just wanted to reinforce the distinction between the alt / far right and everyone else who happens to identify as right wing. I'm well aware a massive amount of conservative voters will be fully in support of an anti-racist message and not everyone is trying to politicise it. Edited 23 June 2020 by Finnegan 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballwipe Posted 23 June 2020 Share Posted 23 June 2020 Was hoping @Finnegan's post would express what I wanted to say when I saw he'd posted. Did not let me down. TY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post nnfox Posted 23 June 2020 Popular Post Share Posted 23 June 2020 2 hours ago, joachim1965 said: I think this sums it up perfectly. Actually, I think there is something in the wording as @Nod.E alluded to. The word "matter" puts a spin on the phrase that draws a line between people. Black lives matter... I think most sane people would never question that. But now it can be construed as one group matters more than another. Events like Manchester was a single event that everyone could stand united in condemnation. Paris was the same. The George Floyd incident was something that people of all races could stand together in condemnation. The Black Lives Matter movement kinda unintentionally hijacked it and shifted the conversation from highlighting police brutality in America to British statues and 40 year old TV shows. The message should have been more inclusive and more specific. "End racism now" or "Enough of racism" are difficult to disagree with, but when your statement makes out that you matter because you are black, it's very easy to oppose it - "You matter, but I don't?" Aside from a minority of idiots, there aren't many people that will not think that true equality regardless of race shouldn't be something to strive towards. The "Kick It Out" campaign has been going for years, but "Kick It Out" is inclusive of everyone and you've never seen a "Don't Kick It Out" banner flying over a stadium. The BLM movement also feels political. The messages are becoming political and there is an underlying tension that if you don't believe in their views around defunding police and dismantling capitalism, then you are labelled as a racist, which is farcical. BLM needs a leader in the mould of Martin Luther King and they need a marketing team. And not wanting to derail the thread, I am really looking forward to the game tonight! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boots60 Posted 23 June 2020 Share Posted 23 June 2020 27 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said: Finally, after 2 pages of political opinion, a Football stat on the Premier league thread. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripeyfox Posted 23 June 2020 Share Posted 23 June 2020 looking forward to the game tonight. It feels good to have football back - even if not quite normal I nearly wept tears of joy when I head the Sports Report theme on FiveLive at 5pm on Saturday 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch Posted 23 June 2020 Share Posted 23 June 2020 14 minutes ago, HankMarvin said: I guess it depends how hard you look... ignorance is bliss. I didn't say there weren't any, I said I hadn't saw any. You can find a hashtag of just about anything, they are not exactly flying banners over stadiums with national TV coverage are they? I'm really struggling on how many more ways I can express that getting butt hurt because the focus is on another race is absolutely ludicrous and pathetic, If you (not necessarily you in particular) are so insecure that you can't handle that then you need to have a long look in the fuching mirror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HankMarvin Posted 23 June 2020 Share Posted 23 June 2020 Just now, Foxy_Bear said: I didn't say there weren't any, I said I hadn't saw any. You can find a hashtag of just about anything, they are not exactly flying banners over stadiums with national TV coverage are they? I'm really struggling on how many more ways I can express that getting butt hurt because the focus is on another race is absolutely ludicrous and pathetic, If you (not necessarily you in particular) are so insecure that you can't handle that then you need to have a long look in the fuching mirror. You just said that no other race gives a fuch, “why is it just white folk that feel alienated” I said I guess how hard you look. it didn’t take 30 secs to find 10000s of examples of Races you mentioned that didn’t care. As someone else has said, The kick it out campaign didn’t get the same response. Why?? Were people any less “Racist”? or is it because it’s a clearer message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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