FA investigating Hamza

[Babylon]

46 minutes ago, shade said:

"The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races." 

How many white compete in the olympic games 100m finals?

[Finnaldo]

Wayne Brown claiming to have voted BNP and told the dressing room including black players that ethnic minorities were 'killing the country', kicked out the club but no punishment from the FA.

 

Hamza Choudhury makes a joke about his OWN race, gives an opinion that women's football is boring, and makes a stupid statement about suicide when he was 15, is punished in retrospect.

 

How far we've swung in 9 years.

[shade]

19 minutes ago, Babylon said:

How many white compete in the olympic games 100m finals?

i agree with you, we shouldn't shy away from accepting that there are obvious differences between different sexes and races, although the definition does say all members. just getting in to semantics now though. i'm still not convinced you can't be racist against your own race though, if for example, an educated black barrister made a disparaging remark about a young black man probably carrying a knife, wouldn't that be racist?

Edited 3 May 2019 by shade

[Babylon]

5 minutes ago, shade said:

i agree with you, we shouldn't shy away from accepting that there are obvious differences between different sexes and races, although the definition does say all members. just getting in to semantics now though. i'm still not convinced you can't be racist against your own race though, if for example, an educated black barrister made a disparaging remark about a young black man probably carrying a knife, wouldn't that be racist?

Depends on the comment perhaps, but if that was a white Barrister about some white chav nobody would say racism. They'd just think he was a bit of a tw*t. There are different classes within all societies, who will look down on those in their own race. So most of the time I'd say it should be categorised as something else. 

[Foxxed]

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

 

I don't disagree, Rice should also have been charged and given a minor, token fine and a public slap on the wrist as should Hamza. 

 

 

But those comments are or were still there on his profile, under his name, for all the world to see. I don't like the obsession with social media, I don't like seeing ages old tweets weaponised to attack people, I don't like anything at all about this situation. 

 

But none of that is the FA's fault to be honest. They cannot try and enforce a policy on respect and inclusivity  (which they should) and at the same time not charge Hamza. 

You're fifteen and obviously a very popular kid at school.

 

At the end of the school year the school takes your picture and asks you to write some things under the picture.

 

You write a load of emotionally immature 15 year old stuff. The school places your image and text for everyone to see.

 

You leave school, leave adolence, you enter into adulthood, you experience life, you change your views. School and what you said there publicly are long gone in your memory.

 

Six years later you start a new job with a new set of ethical standards. Your employer sees the stuff you posted when you in were adolence. You're charged.

 

Fair?

[Finnegan]

2 minutes ago, Foxxed said:

You're fifteen and obviously a very popular kid at school.

 

At the end of the school year the school takes your picture and asks you to write some things under the picture.

 

You write a load of emotionally immature 15 year old stuff. The school places your image and text for everyone to see.

 

You leave school, leave adolence, you enter into adulthood, you experience life, you change your views. School and what you said there publicly are long gone in your memory.

 

Six years later you start a new job with a new set of ethical standards. Your employer sees the stuff you posted when you in were adolence. You're charged.

 

Fair?

 

I got halfway through writing a ridiculous sarcastic response to this and realised I can't be bothered. 

 

Bottom line - what is "fair" and "normal" in a thousand other irrelevant scenarios is irrelevant.

 

Football is neither fair or normal. This is a lesson for Hamza and other young players to go and make sure they purge their social media and are careful in the future with what they post. 

 

It's as simple as that. 

 

As I've said, I'm not happy this is happening to Hamza, the whole situation is silly and absurd. But it isn't the Fa's fault and whilst I would defend Hamza for the silly shit he posted as a kid, I'd also defend the FA for dealing with it. 

 

There are no arseholes here other than the arsenal fans. 

[Foxxed]

35 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I got halfway through writing a ridiculous sarcastic response to this and realised I can't be bothered. 

 

Bottom line - what is "fair" and "normal" in a thousand other irrelevant scenarios is irrelevant.

 

Football is neither fair or normal. This is a lesson for Hamza and other young players to go and make sure they purge their social media and are careful in the future with what they post. 

 

It's as simple as that. 

 

As I've said, I'm not happy this is happening to Hamza, the whole situation is silly and absurd. But it isn't the Fa's fault and whilst I would defend Hamza for the silly shit he posted as a kid, I'd also defend the FA for dealing with it. 

 

There are no arseholes here other than the arsenal fans. 

The FA are charging him for breaching ethical standards. But he was not subject to these ethical standards at 15. He was not aware of these ethical standards at 15. He was not emotionally mature enough to understand these ethical standards at 15. They are treating a child who they had no authority over as an adult who they do have authority over. They are claiming Hamza's publicly available adolencent views are his current views. I appreciate the FA is trying to stamp out this kind of thing but treating a child they had no authority over as an adult they do have authority over is unacceptable. The FA is at fault.

Edited 3 May 2019 by Foxxed

[yorkie1999]

1 hour ago, Babylon said:

How many white compete in the olympic games 100m finals?

Which kind of backs up what hamza was saying in the first place.

[ultrafox]

The person who reported this to the FA in the first place is the REAL racist!  A complete racist witch hunt, singling out an Asian player with a very promising future.

 

Let's look at all the social media of all players and FA staff when they were 16. Every single one will be as white as snow. (NOT!)

 

It's a utter farce!   Shame on you FA !!

 

 

[Detroit Blues]

2 hours ago, Babylon said:

How many white compete in the olympic games 100m finals?

You always have to have at least one white person as the control, so you can see just how much faster everyone else is

 

[reynard]

Surely the real question is why on earth wasn't this dealt with by the club 5 or 6 years ago?

[RonnieTodger]

I'd be interested to see where they draw the line. No doubt there are academy players even younger than 15 on Twitter and writing even more nonsense than Hamza. 

 

What if he was 12/13?

Edited 3 May 2019 by RonnieTodger

[Trav Le Bleu]

This would sit easier with me if the FA were to trawl through all online posts of every professional player from the last 10 years and hand out corresponding punishments where similar comments have arisen. Rather than waiting for disgruntled fans with an axe to grind to do it.

 

 But they won't, they will do FA.

[Steven]

Perhaps he can use this in his defence. 

 

Quote

I'll top you

 

This team walked off as the linesman was racist... their team has been fined and their manager suspended.

 

Meanwhile the match official who was racist is still allowed to officiate... how does that work?! 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-47856492 

 

[Trav Le Bleu]

20 minutes ago, reynard said:

Surely the real question is why on earth wasn't this dealt with by the club 5 or 6 years ago?

Because,

 

A) people at large didn't care so much about people's social media comments back then.

 

And

 

B) how many followers would he have had in 2013? Probably just family and friends.

[urban fox]

OK so 5 years ago I got a speeding ticket. 3 points and a fine, and it stayed on my record for 3 years and visible for a further one year after that. If anyone cared to look at my DVLA record now there would be no sign that it ever occurred. it is in the class of a previous misdemeanor, spent, forgotten of no relevance any longer. Nobody cares.  It was just as irrelevant at the time as I do not drive a bus/lorry/taxi and therefore of no consequence to any of the authorities governing the conduct of those who do such jobs.

 

Yet a young lad of 15 says a few stupid things and the whole world tilts on its axis and its the end of civilization as we know it.  The FA have set themselves up to look foolish here in my opinion. Charging a Asian/Caribbean player with racist comments, made when he was not under the directives of professional conduct of that organization.  Back in 2014 the standard of women's football was sh*t and a football mad young boy saying that it was not a good advert for the sport is hardly the stuff of revolution. 

 

If I had said anything that was likely to be construed as offensive or racist etc when I was a 15 year old lad I would have got a right good lecture from my dad, possibly with a good clip round the ear as a lesson to mind my P&Qs and not to be such a pillock (although that would have probably got him 5 years for assault now).

 

Yes the FA having received an official complaint have to be seen to be upholding their own guidelines etc.  This could have been done along the lines of acknowledging the complaint and then letting it be known that the player had had the error of his ways pointed out to him, (a virtual clip round the ear) apologized and agreed to let it be known that he was once a spotty adolescent twat (as we all were once upon a time) and has now grown up but let it be a lesson to all young academy hopefuls to mind what they say and post on social media.

No outrage, no losing face for FA, no claims of unfair treatment/racism, player learns a valuable life lesson. Problem solved.  But no our stupid FA probably think that by charging a mixed race player with racism they are sending out the message that they treat all cases seriously and will not show favouritism based on ethnicity (unless you happen to play for England and there is an important match coming up and then its perfectly Ok to support the IRA or stamp on Neil Lennon's head)

 

 

[Babylon]

33 minutes ago, RonnieTodger said:

I'd be interested to see where they draw the line. No doubt there are academy players even younger than 15 on Twitter and writing even more nonsense than Hamza. 

 

What if he was 12/13?

 

"Pfffffft Women's football is crap"

[urban fox]

       Quote

I'll top you

 

This team walked off as the linesman was racist... their team has been fined and their manager suspended.

 

Meanwhile the match official who was racist is still allowed to officiate... how does that work?! 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-47856492 

when I see stuff like this it really does make me realize that it is time for an independent ombudsman to deal with all misconduct cases.  Complaints would be referred to them and then they will decide if there is a case to answer.  That way there would also be a means of redress against the FA when they have broken their own rules/guidelines.  Currently the FA can use video evidence and all sorts to retrospectively charge players/clubs bit no such facility is available (other than a biased appeal process which is still presided over by the "prosecution").

An independent body has to be the way forward or there will forever be claims of bias etc.

[urban.spaceman]

Hope the club go all out in support of Hamza and put an Afro on each seat for the Chelsea game. 

[yorkie1999]

9 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

Hope the club go all out in support of Hamza and put an Afro on each seat for the Chelsea game. 

What a great idea, they're only 3 quid, why not everyone in the kop just buy one and wear it for the chelsea game. Bit of solidarity for one of our own.

 

https://ilovefancydress.com/accessories/wigs/black-curly-afro-wig?gclid=CjwKCAjwza_mBRBTEiwASDWVvm3Vg1QZJ1KiQrWctiRuUEukxjL92y0UQlJfV0pTxgsN1GbBN4OiGRoCyk4QAvD_BwE

[Trav Le Bleu]

21 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

Hope the club go all out in support of Hamza and put a huge "Women's football is boring." Tifo in the kop.

Fixed.

[Crispin LA]

Growing up in the 80's in Leicester, Eddie Murphy Saturday Night Live video was passed around our year at secondary school. He tells jokes about blacks and everyone fond them funny. Heck I think even Channel 4 screened it. 

Would they these days call for Eddie Murphy to be prosecuted for Historical cases of telling jokes about blacks. 

It seems to me the UK is run by a braindead snowflake softy establishment. No wonder the world p*sses on the UK. 

[urban.spaceman]

1 hour ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

Fixed.

 

#toxicmasculinity

[urban.spaceman]

1 hour ago, yorkie1999 said:

What a great idea, they're only 3 quid, why not everyone in the kop just buy one and wear it for the chelsea game. Bit of solidarity for one of our own.

 

https://ilovefancydress.com/accessories/wigs/black-curly-afro-wig?gclid=CjwKCAjwza_mBRBTEiwASDWVvm3Vg1QZJ1KiQrWctiRuUEukxjL92y0UQlJfV0pTxgsN1GbBN4OiGRoCyk4QAvD_BwE

Didn’t the club used to sell blue and white ones?!

[mad biker]

I pinched a packet of sweets when I was 11, am 63 now but am seriously thinking of going to the dibble and fessing up, what do you think I should do ?