FA investigating Hamza

[Dan]

4 hours ago, Hammo said:

Like most of your posts, Dan, you make perfect sense, but the point I am making is that subject matters (or to use the modern vernacular, "issues") that people nowadays are so eager to categorise/bracket with a word ending 'ism' are so hypersensitive that it takes an extraordinary level of courage to stand up and demand proper debate where these are concerned. For a governing body under microscopic media scrutiny of every move they make, justice and reason are alas inevitably sidelined in order to conform to PC-driven bandwagon pressure.

 

For the FA to ignore even the most trivial of these 'issues' that come to light (I.e. Hamza's teenage tweets) would give carte blanche to these media-backed pressure groups to crucify them.

To be honest, I'm coming from a very similar position to you and I'm in complete agreement, though I think the FA ultimately have played their part as well in this.

 

Sadly now it is the accepted norm to just go along with it without challenging it.

[Dan]

56 minutes ago, Tuna said:

Ridiculous that he is being targeted by the FA for something that amounted to little more than a silly joke posted by a schoolboy years before he became a footballer and a so called role model.

 

The FA are out of order in my opinion and are an utter joke and should be treated with contempt.

 

He's apologised and that should be the end of the matter.

 

I just hope Hamza isn't too upset by all of this; he should be on cloud nine after such a commanding performance against Arsenal.

It's a shame there's no way of getting back at them that doesn't really bite us at the same time. I'd happily have said pull our players out of the nations league squad but they'll just want to move.

 

Bullshit dictated to us all by a proven incompetent organisation. What a sorry state of affairs.

[MPH]

so if children can’t be tried in an adult court then how can an amateur kid be held up to the standard expected of professional men?

 

 

mad

[Livid]

15 year olds do the stupidest of things sometimes.

 

Put a few dodgy tweets on social media.........Run off to join a bunch of islamic extremists 

 

We need to stop it with the knee jerk reactions and step back a little.

 

 

[Tom12345]

39 minutes ago, Livid said:

15 year olds do the stupidest of things sometimes.

 

Put a few dodgy tweets on social media.........Run off to join a bunch of islamic extremists 

 

We need to stop it with the knee jerk reactions and step back a little.

 

 

Fully agree. Such investigations can also be counterproductive. No one will say anything anymore, bottle it all inside, and no one can help educate them.

 

None of us are perfect, but we learn through life lessons as we grow old. Kids should be allowed to make mistakes and learn from them. He apologised and we should all move on. But the person who received the complaint at the FA cares more about his/her job and not be scrutinised for not following protocols - standing in the way of common sense.

 

Applying the same standards to politicians, it means we will never elect someone who has genuinely given life a go, made mistakes and therefore experienced and wiser, to lead us. We will instead elect bookworms who have never taken any risk in life.  

[StanSP]

Might sound quite cynical but if his name was something like Harry Cook and not Hamza Choudhury, I don't even think we'd be having such conversations and dispute with the FA, I wonder... 

[Babylon]

14 hours ago, Captain... said:

They really aren’t that bad, immature definitely, but the ‘racist’ one is clearly a poor taste joke not an act of genuine racism. The women's football one is out of context but almost definitely true, the self harming one shows a lack of understanding and empathy which is not surprising in a 15 year old.

How is it even racist? He's part asian part caribbean, it's like me being called a racist for telling a joke about white people when I'm as white as snow. 

[don_danbury]

guess you're not allowed opinions these days? strange stuff

[Finnegan]

Appreciate I'm largely on my own but I still don't particularly see a problem with the FA charging him. It's how they punish him that's significant. 

 

They investigated the claims, clearly it was him that posted them and clearly he now needs to be charged for what is obviously a breach in their ethical standards. 

 

Their punishment should be lessened by the fact he was a kid at the time and I'd expect any statement they make to also acknowledge his age at the time of the tweets. 

 

But otherwise, eh. A lot of over reaction in here. It's hardly going to damage his career is it? 

 

And anyone complaining about his free speech or being allowed opinions, do **** off. He's not being sent to prison, nobody's limiting his free speech, he can say what the **** he wants - but being a professional footballer is not one of his basic human rights and its up to the club and the FA to dictate to him a code of conduct he has to adhere to if he wants to stay in employment. 

 

That's no different to any of our jobs.. None of us could go in to public and slag off our customers and not get a bollocking from our bosses. 

 

 

[Ric Flair]

11 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

Appreciate I'm largely on my own but I still don't particularly see a problem with the FA charging him. It's how they punish him that's significant. 

 

They investigated the claims, clearly it was him that posted them and clearly he now needs to be charged for what is obviously a breach in their ethical standards. 

 

Their punishment should be lessened by the fact he was a kid at the time and I'd expect any statement they make to also acknowledge his age at the time of the tweets. 

 

But otherwise, eh. A lot of over reaction in here. It's hardly going to damage his career is it? 

 

And anyone complaining about his free speech or being allowed opinions, do **** off. He's not being sent to prison, nobody's limiting his free speech, he can say what the **** he wants - but being a professional footballer is not one of his basic human rights and its up to the club and the FA to dictate to him a code of conduct he has to adhere to if he wants to stay in employment. 

 

That's no different to any of our jobs.. None of us could go in to public and slag off our customers and not get a bollocking from our bosses. 

 

 

All valid, but why wasn't Declan Rice charged then whilst they investigated what he said at 16? This is what pisses people off. The FA are always going to make unpopular decisions but they are so inconsistent and hypocritical that they are unfit for purpose.

[AKCJ]

13 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

Appreciate I'm largely on my own but I still don't particularly see a problem with the FA charging him. It's how they punish him that's significant. 

 

They investigated the claims, clearly it was him that posted them and clearly he now needs to be charged for what is obviously a breach in their ethical standards. 

 

Their punishment should be lessened by the fact he was a kid at the time and I'd expect any statement they make to also acknowledge his age at the time of the tweets. 

 

But otherwise, eh. A lot of over reaction in here. It's hardly going to damage his career is it? 

 

And anyone complaining about his free speech or being allowed opinions, do **** off. He's not being sent to prison, nobody's limiting his free speech, he can say what the **** he wants - but being a professional footballer is not one of his basic human rights and its up to the club and the FA to dictate to him a code of conduct he has to adhere to if he wants to stay in employment. 

 

That's no different to any of our jobs.. None of us could go in to public and slag off our customers and not get a bollocking from our bosses. 

 

 

Completely agree.

 

The inconsistencies are bullshit but ultimately Hamza should know that people will dig up old social media posts. More specifically the club should be preventing things from happening. 

[shade]

27 minutes ago, Babylon said:

How is it even racist? He's part asian part caribbean, it's like me being called a racist for telling a joke about white people when I'm as white as snow. 

..but where is the logic that you can't be racist against your own race? (for what it's worth, I don't think the joke is racist)

[AKCJ]

1 minute ago, Ric Flair said:

All valid, but why wasn't Declan Rice charged then whilst they investigated what he said at 16? This is what pisses people off. The FA are always going to make unpopular decisions but they are so inconsistent and hypocritical that they are unfit for purpose.

Because Declan Rice was due to make his England debut the next day and they didn't want to piss him off.

[Ric Flair]

Just now, shade said:

..but where is the logic that you can't be racist against your own race? (for what it's worth, I don't think the joke is racist)

Hahahaha that's the next racism sub plot.

[Babylon]

26 minutes ago, shade said:

..but where is the logic that you can't be racist against your own race? (for what it's worth, I don't think the joke is racist)

I'd imagine because the definition of racism is "prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior."

[shade]

14 minutes ago, Babylon said:

I'd imagine because the definition of racism is "prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior."

clever, conveniently skipping over the alternative definition "The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races." 

 

a much more apt definition, in the context of a joke which is specifically referencing black people's characteristics.

[Crinklyfox]

I'm no legal expert but I'm betting that we have at least one or two on here so can anyone advise regarding the following:

 

Hamza signed his first professional contract with City in 2015.  Signing a contract, the details of which are not known by myself, would normally bind a person to the requirements of the employer, which are likely to reflect the requirements of the governing body (FA).  Before that time it is not reasonable to expect that the employed person is required to abide with those contractual requirements, and I believe that the tweets date back to 2013 and 2014.

 

It may be that Hamza legally has no case to answer.  In which case City should tell the FA to go away (I'm being polite here).

[Foxxed]

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

Appreciate I'm largely on my own but I still don't particularly see a problem with the FA charging him. It's how they punish him that's significant. 

 

They investigated the claims, clearly it was him that posted them and clearly he now needs to be charged for what is obviously a breach in their ethical standards. 

 

Their punishment should be lessened by the fact he was a kid at the time and I'd expect any statement they make to also acknowledge his age at the time of the tweets. 

 

But otherwise, eh. A lot of over reaction in here. It's hardly going to damage his career is it? 

 

And anyone complaining about his free speech or being allowed opinions, do **** off. He's not being sent to prison, nobody's limiting his free speech, he can say what the **** he wants - but being a professional footballer is not one of his basic human rights and its up to the club and the FA to dictate to him a code of conduct he has to adhere to if he wants to stay in employment. 

 

That's no different to any of our jobs.. None of us could go in to public and slag off our customers and not get a bollocking from our bosses. 

 

 

But didn't he breach their ethical standard when was a emotionally immature 15 year old boy and importantly not part of their organisation?

[Captain...]

20 minutes ago, Babylon said:

How is it even racist? He's part asian part caribbean, it's like me being called a racist for telling a joke about white people when I'm as white as snow. 

The predication of the joke is subjective. It’s funny either because all black people are criminals or because all black people are persecuted by the police. If Chris Rock tells that joke it’s not racist if Jim Davidson does then it is. If a mixed race teenager tells that joke then it is pretty subjective but seeing as his name reflects his Asian background more than his Caribbean it is not hard to see why @HamzaChoudhury making jokes about black people could be perceived as racist. 

 

I don’t think it is, and I don’t think people should be punished for dumb things they said and did when 15. As finnegan said it’s not really about the charge it’s about the punishment, a small fine and a warning would be sufficient and send the message out to all 15 year olds that you need to be careful what you tweet.

[Finnegan]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

All valid, but why wasn't Declan Rice charged then whilst they investigated what he said at 16? This is what pisses people off. The FA are always going to make unpopular decisions but they are so inconsistent and hypocritical that they are unfit for purpose.

 

I don't disagree, Rice should also have been charged and given a minor, token fine and a public slap on the wrist as should Hamza. 

 

10 minutes ago, Foxxed said:

But didn't he breach their ethical standard when was a emotionally immature 15 year old boy and importantly not part of their organisation?

 

But those comments are or were still there on his profile, under his name, for all the world to see. I don't like the obsession with social media, I don't like seeing ages old tweets weaponised to attack people, I don't like anything at all about this situation. 

 

But none of that is the FA's fault to be honest. They cannot try and enforce a policy on respect and inclusivity  (which they should) and at the same time not charge Hamza. 

[TheUltimateWinner]

The only reason this doesn't sit right with me is due to the fact there hasn't been consistency. If Rice & Hennessey were both charged you'd probably go fair enough, but as this case on it's own has seemingly been singled out, it does strike a sense of injustice for Hamza. 

 

Obviously the simple thing for all players to do is delete their social media (or make their existing one private and create a new one). Surely there should be someone within the club who should advise young players on media handling? 

[yorkie1999]

1 hour ago, Babylon said:

How is it even racist? He's part asian part caribbean, it's like me being called a racist for telling a joke about white people when I'm as white as snow. 

Slavery, now that's kind of up there in the racism league but, it was black people rounding up and capturing other black people in africa then selling them to white people that was fundamental to the slave trade.

[Finnegan]

3 minutes ago, TheUltimateWinner said:

The only reason this doesn't sit right with me is due to the fact there hasn't been consistency. If Rice & Hennessey were both charged you'd probably go fair enough, but as this case on it's own has seemingly been singled out, it does strike a sense of injustice for Hamza. 

 

Obviously the simple thing for all players to do is delete their social media (or make their existing one private and create a new one). Surely there should be someone within the club who should advise young players on media handling? 

 

For me the difference between Hamza Rice and Hennessey is that I really particularly think Hennessey did anything wrong. I think he got papped making a silly joke with a team mate and inexplicably blundered in to making it worse to try and defend himself. 

 

We've all done the John Cleese Monty Python Hitler walk and quite frankly there's **** all wrong with that. 

 

Hamza and Rice however have posted genuinely shitty views that clearly football azan institution can't be seen to endorse. I do believe both are largely harmless due to their age and I do believe that both should have very, very minor fines and a strong "just don't do it again" as a punishment but they shouldn't really be ignored. 

 

For me it's a bigger problem that Rice got away with it than that Hamza got charged. 

[Babylon]

30 minutes ago, Captain... said:

The predication of the joke is subjective. It’s funny either because all black people are criminals or because all black people are persecuted by the police. If Chris Rock tells that joke it’s not racist if Jim Davidson does then it is. If a mixed race teenager tells that joke then it is pretty subjective but seeing as his name reflects his Asian background more than his Caribbean it is not hard to see why @HamzaChoudhury making jokes about black people could be perceived as racist. 

He's got a black dad and has a massive afro, anyone perceiving something it from just his name is an idiot. 

[Babylon]

20 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Slavery, now that's kind of up there in the racism league but, it was black people rounding up and capturing other black people in africa then selling them to white people that was fundamental to the slave trade.

Exploitation and profiteering