Ayoze Pérez

[phoneticerror]

8 hours ago, weller54 said:

Who'd want Perez?

We're lumbered 🤬

Even Norwich would turn him down.

 

Could whack a wig on him and try to sell to Arsenal.

[st albans fox]

19 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Those 18 shots off target as well will have all been blazed over the bar at an incredible trajectory. Perez has the rare ability to add by any means necessary thr required height to the ball from whatever distance just as long as it gets over the bar. Most will immediately think of the Chelsea away horror miss but his one in the last few seconds away at Palace from about 12 centimeters out was even worse.

He does seem to lean back as he comes into a potential challenge - hence the shots under pressure go upwards more than they should. That’s a mental thing - Ali mauchlen wouldn’t have that problem ………

[UpTheLeagueFox]

Even during international break, even when the bloke is suspended, the pile ons continue.

 

FWIW, I don't think he's as bad as people here make out. Equally I don't think he's as good as the manager believes.

Then again, you have to back his judgement because he gets it right more often than not as a 50+ % PL win ratio suggests.

[ARM1968]

21 hours ago, Webbo said:

A) He cost 30 million. 

B) You think he's crap. 

C) Brendan is stubborn and can't see what you can see. 

 

I think that's covered it all, any need for more discussion.? 

No, it’s quite clear that Perez has had access to Brendan’s laptop. It’s the only explanation. 

[Stadt]

Even if he was a third of the price, you'd still be incredibly disappointed with his output. Over the last 365 days his xg p90 is 0.22 and he's actually getting a whopping 0.12 goals p90. 

 

The lack of goals would be fine if he made up for it by providing for others but the man is chronically uncreative. 7 seasons in the Premier League and he has 14 assists!

 

Edited 1 September 2021 by Stadt

[volpeazzurro]

15 hours ago, Bazly said:

At least we can lose him this winter or next Summer, otherwise it'll be contract extension (god forbid) or free transfer the following year. 

I think he'll aim for the free transfer, no other mugs are going to pay him what he's getting here. You can't blame him for that I suppose. Unfortunately, I think we're lumbered!

[FoxesWalk]

Last season was the worst of his career by some distance. Before he joined us he was consistently hitting double figures for goals in a mediocre PL team. First season with us he did pretty well, 8 goals from RW is respectable. I can see why he cost what he did and why we went for him. It wasn’t out of the question that he could make the Spain squad at the time. 10+ goals a season consistently in the prem is worth that money now, as mental as the fees are. His defensive stats and play off the ball was elite (still is) so we thought we were buying a pressing forward who would contribute goals. 
 

Last season his output wasn’t good enough, he was woefully out of form in front of goal. But there is still a player there. Hopefully he is a player that improves with crowds back, though a good chunk of our fans seem to detest him and have no interest in helping him get his confidence back... 

 

It may not be a coincidence that his form fell off a cliff during Covid with empty stadiums. Would also not surprise me if something was going on with him off the pitch (aside from the parties with Madders and Hamza 😂). 

[moseeds]

On 31/08/2021 at 11:37, Webbo said:

A) He cost 30 million. 

B) You think he's crap. 

C) Brendan is stubborn and can't see what you can see. 

 

I think that's covered it all, any need for more discussion.? 

Missed out D) Apparently Perez has kompromat on Rodgers.

[Stadt]

1 hour ago, FoxesWalk said:

Before he joined us he was consistently hitting double figures for goals in a mediocre PL team

He scored 12 goals in 18/19 but that was the only occasion he has in the PL. 

[Daz93]

Not a big fan of Perez but if he continues to play then we need to get behind him. No use berating a player devoid of form and confidence because he'll become even more ineffective.

[FoxesWalk]

12 minutes ago, Stadt said:

He scored 12 goals in 18/19 but that was the only occasion he has in the PL. 

I didn’t specify in the league, but anyway these were the three seasons before he joined us (inc. domestic cups, which Newcastle went out in the early rounds of most of) 

 

16/17 season - 12 goals 

17/18 season - 10 goals 

18/19 season - 13 goals 

Last season for us he got 3, which I think everyone knows is not good enough. Himself included you’d imagine. 

Edited 1 September 2021 by FoxesWalk

[murphy]

1 hour ago, FoxesWalk said:

Last season was the worst of his career by some distance. Before he joined us he was consistently hitting double figures for goals in a mediocre PL team. First season with us he did pretty well, 8 goals from RW is respectable. I can see why he cost what he did and why we went for him. It wasn’t out of the question that he could make the Spain squad at the time. 10+ goals a season consistently in the prem is worth that money now, as mental as the fees are. His defensive stats and play off the ball was elite (still is) so we thought we were buying a pressing forward who would contribute goals. 
 

Last season his output wasn’t good enough, he was woefully out of form in front of goal. But there is still a player there. Hopefully he is a player that improves with crowds back, though a good chunk of our fans seem to detest him and have no interest in helping him get his confidence back... 

 

It may not be a coincidence that his form fell off a cliff during Covid with empty stadiums. Would also not surprise me if something was going on with him off the pitch (aside from the parties with Madders and Hamza 😂). 

I agree that 8 goals was a fair return for 19/20 although I can't help but qualify it by adding that the Southampton hat-trick was something of an anomaly against a shell-shocked team and masks his contribution somewhat.  2 goals last year was poor. Both against the worst team in the league. 

 

For me, goals are not the issue.  It is his lack of creative output (that's his job, he's a forward not a defender) and above all his wastefulness.  I get so frustrated seeing him miscontrol passes, tootle off into traffic, fall over and lose possession.  I thought he was awful in 2019 but he reached a new nadir last season.

 

You tell us that his defensive stats are elite but what use is that if one of those two tackles per game is his second touch and what use is it when winning possession is more than countered by losing it so often?

 

I think a third season of AP might just tip me over the edge and finally I must counter your assertion of 10+ goals consistently in the PL.  He has only scored 10+ PL goals once in six PL seasons (7,6,8,12,8,2). 

 

 

Edited 1 September 2021 by murphy

[murphy]

3 hours ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

Even during international break, even when the bloke is suspended, the pile ons continue.

 

FWIW, I don't think he's as bad as people here make out. Equally I don't think he's as good as the manager believes.

Then again, you have to back his judgement because he gets it right more often than not as a 50+ % PL win ratio suggests.

I don't like this term.  Surely a pile on can only exist when the object of said pile on is in the room so to speak.  He's not here so it is just a discussion but one that is firmly weighted at one side of the argument.

[FoxesWalk]

8 minutes ago, murphy said:

I agree that 8 goals was a fair return for 19/20 although I can't help but qualify it by adding that the Southampton hat-trick was something of an anomaly against a shell-shocked team and masks his contribution somewhat.  2 goals last year was poor. Both against the worst team in the league. 

 

For me, goals are not the issue.  It is his lack of creative output (that's his job, he's a forward not a defender) and above all his wastefulness.  I get so frustrated seeing him miscontrol passes, tootle off into traffic, fall over and lose possession.  I thought he was awful in 2019 but he reached a new nadir last season.

 

You tell us that his defensive stats are elite but what use is that if one of those two tackles per game is his second touch and what use is it when winning possession is more than countered by losing it so often?

 

I think a third season of AP might just tip me over the edge and finally I must counter your assertion of 10+ goals consistently in the PL.  He has only scored 10+ PL goals once in six PL seasons. 

 

 

Every player does this, he just gets picked up on more now because nobody likes him. He isn’t the worst in our team for this. Iheanacho is considerably more wasteful than him looking at the stats, but everyone likes him because he scores goals... Barnes also statistically ranks worse than Perez for miscontrols and being disposed. He is actually one of our best forwards for not wasting the ball. 
 

I just had a quick look at the miscontol/dispossession stats for all of our forwards after writing that first paragraph, and Perez is actually 2nd best only to Vardy. And Vardy is MILES ahead of everyone else. Elite level stats. 

Edited 1 September 2021 by FoxesWalk

[oxtonfox]

I thought when he was at Newcastle his stats were pretty good, 10 goals a season in a poor team and usually as the lone striker. I did feel that the fee (£28m?) was on the steep side but there was hope.

I was disappointed in his first season for us and last season was down at the Ahmed Musa level, yet Perez played a lot more games!  

 

I think it's relatively early in the season to write him off, though he has not exactly covered himself in glory so far. Then again that's true for more than half of the team so far this season.  

 

The jury is out but they are knocking on the door and I guess they have a 10 to two majority at least to return!

[Ric Flair]

3 hours ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

Even during international break, even when the bloke is suspended, the pile ons continue.

 

FWIW, I don't think he's as bad as people here make out. Equally I don't think he's as good as the manager believes.

Then again, you have to back his judgement because he gets it right more often than not as a 50+ % PL win ratio suggests.

I don't see what being suspended would mean there'd be less criticism of him. Yes, we are all very much relieved he can't play for 3 games but the sending off itself wasn't great was it. Clumsy, borderline reckless and had that happened to one of our players we'd certainly be up in arms about the player that did it.

 

I'll enjoy these next couple of weeks whilst he can't play, make hay whilst the Ayo don't shine eh?!

[murphy]

1 minute ago, pmcla26 said:

You don't like the term, many don't like the constant negativity surrounding him from our own "supporters". 

I don't think it is accurate.  It implies bullying, but it is not because AP is not here.  A pile on is what happened to Thracian if you were around in those days.

 

I know you don't like it.  You are the arch-defender of AP and often come up with very creative ways of defending him to the point that I struggle to believe that it is a sincerely held view.  The fact that you have put the word supporters in inverted commas suggests, as I suspect, that you labour under the misguided view that criticising players is off limits and to be a good supporter you must ignore any shortcomings and pretend they don't exist.  We are Leicester supporters and want what is best for the team.  For me we have clear and obvious weakness that needs addressing.

 

17 minutes ago, FoxesWalk said:

Every player does this, he just gets picked up on more now because nobody likes him. He isn’t the worst in our team for this. Iheanacho is considerably more wasteful than him looking at the stats, but everyone likes him because he scores goals... Barnes also statistically ranks worse than Perez for miscontrols and being disposed. He is actually one of our best forwards for not wasting the ball. 
 

I just had a quick look at the miscontol/dispossession stats for all of our forwards after writing that first paragraph, and Perez is actually 2nd best only to Vardy. And Vardy is MILES ahead of everyone else. Elite level stats. 

 

Well, I wouldn't know where to find those stats but is contradicts the evidence of my own eyes.  I can almost call the breakdown of an attack at AP's feet as the ball is passed to him, but I've been here before.  After reading similar posts I have tried to watch AP with fresh eyes and an open mind but every time I just see a fly-away player so easily brushed off the ball.

 

You do put up a good argument in general but I find the idea that people have turned on him because they don't like him a bit ridiculous tbh.

[FoxesWalk]

3 minutes ago, murphy said:

I don't think it is accurate.  It implies bullying, but it is not because AP is not here.  A pile on is what happened to Thracian if you were around in those days.

 

I know you don't like it.  You are the arch-defender of AP and often come up with very creative ways of defending him to the point that I struggle to believe that it is a sincerely held view.  The fact that you have put the word supporters in inverted commas suggests, as I suspect, that you labour under the misguided view that criticising players is off limits and to be a good supporter you must ignore any shortcomings and pretend they don't exist.  We are Leicester supporters and want what is best for the team.  For me we have clear and obvious weakness that needs addressing.

 

 

Well, I wouldn't know where to find those stats but is contradicts the evidence of my own eyes.  I can almost call the breakdown of an attack at AP's feet as the ball is passed to him, but I've been here before.  After reading similar posts I have tried to watch AP with fresh eyes and an open mind but every time I just see a fly-away player so easily brushed off the ball.

 

You do put up a good argument in general but I find the idea that people have turned on him because they don't like him a bit ridiculous tbh.

If you go looking for negatives in any player you can find them. It’s not that Ayo is very good at retaining, he is below average for a forward in Europe’s top 5 leagues, but so are Barnes and Nacho, and Perez was marginally better than both of those last year. As I said, Vardy is miles ahead of all of them and better than most forwards in the top 5 leagues. 
 

When Nacho wasn’t scoring a year or so ago the same criticism was levelled at him, and it’s valid, same with Perez and Barnes. But it’s not like Perez is uniquely bad at this, he is slightly less bad than our other forwards. You notice it more because you expect him to do bad things and each time you see them it adds to the body of evidence to support the idea that he is shite. Nacho does the same all the time but it’s forgiven and forgotten because of his recent reputation and goal contributions. Same with Barnes. 

[Carl the Llama]

8 minutes ago, murphy said:

I don't think it is accurate.  It implies bullying, but it is not because AP is not here.  A pile on is what happened to Thracian if you were around in those days.

That's a gross comparison to make. Thrac wasn't 'bullied', he received backlash for making horrendously offensive statements.

 

As for the term itself, I don't think it's unfair to say there's been a lot of scapegoating of Perez in recent matches so for me there has been a pile on based on your definition.  

[SecretPro]

41 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

You don't like the term, many don't like the constant negativity surrounding him from our own "supporters". 

It's not negativity really though is it, it's just facing facts and understanding it's an issue. He is a poor player, especially in an attacking sense, which is what he is, especially at a cost £30m. I don't know why people find it that difficult to understand or come to terms with. You can 'support' players as part of the team and the club you love, but you don;t have to pretend they are any good. They are not mutually exclusive.

[murphy]

2 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

That's a gross comparison to make. Thrac wasn't 'bullied', he received backlash for making horrendously offensive statements.

 

As for the term itself, I don't think it's unfair to say there's been a lot of scapegoating of Perez in recent matches so for me there has been a pile on based on your definition.  

Well perhaps it was a bad example.  I agree that Thracian's comments provoked a justified backlash.  The point I was trying to make is that a pile on can only happen if there is a person ther to pile on to.  Thracian in the case I mentioned.  That is the only point I was making and the difference is that Thracian provoked it as you say.

 

THe second part of your post re scapegoating is the opposite of a pile on by my definition/understanding of the term.

[murphy]

10 minutes ago, FoxesWalk said:

If you go looking for negatives in any player you can find them. It’s not that Ayo is very good at retaining, he is below average for a forward in Europe’s top 5 leagues, but so are Barnes and Nacho, and Perez was marginally better than both of those last year. As I said, Vardy is miles ahead of all of them and better than most forwards in the top 5 leagues. 
 

When Nacho wasn’t scoring a year or so ago the same criticism was levelled at him, and it’s valid, same with Perez and Barnes. But it’s not like Perez is uniquely bad at this, he is slightly less bad than our other forwards. You notice it more because you expect him to do bad things and each time you see them it adds to the body of evidence to support the idea that he is shite. Nacho does the same all the time but it’s forgiven and forgotten because of his recent reputation and goal contributions. Same with Barnes. 

Well that was the point.  I was trying to revisit AP with an open mind, yet I still see the same result unless I can't shake an unconscious bias which is possible but I don't know why it would exist in the first place.  

[jammie82uk]

58 minutes ago, murphy said:

I don't like this term.  Surely a pile on can only exist when the object of said pile on is in the room so to speak.  He's not here so it is just a discussion but one that is firmly weighted at one side of the argument.

Definition of pile on,  

informal 

: to join other people in criticizing something or someone in usually an unfair way

example: After the first few negative reviews, all the other critics started piling on.

 

[honeybradger]

1 hour ago, FoxesWalk said:

Every player does this, he just gets picked up on more now because nobody likes him. He isn’t the worst in our team for this. Iheanacho is considerably more wasteful than him looking at the stats, but everyone likes him because he scores goals... Barnes also statistically ranks worse than Perez for miscontrols and being disposed. He is actually one of our best forwards for not wasting the ball. 
 

I just had a quick look at the miscontol/dispossession stats for all of our forwards after writing that first paragraph, and Perez is actually 2nd best only to Vardy. And Vardy is MILES ahead of everyone else. Elite level stats. 

I think the perception that Perez loses the ball more than iheanacho and barnes comes from the fact that when he loses the ball he tends to do it needlessly in low pressure situations, when Barnes and Iheanacho lose the ball at least it's because theyre trying to do something with it and attack the opponent's defence. Perez has the combination of losing the ball frequently whilst also having very low output which is incredibly frustrating for most fans.

[honeybradger]

44 minutes ago, FoxesWalk said:

If you go looking for negatives in any player you can find them. It’s not that Ayo is very good at retaining, he is below average for a forward in Europe’s top 5 leagues, but so are Barnes and Nacho, and Perez was marginally better than both of those last year. As I said, Vardy is miles ahead of all of them and better than most forwards in the top 5 leagues. 
 

When Nacho wasn’t scoring a year or so ago the same criticism was levelled at him, and it’s valid, same with Perez and Barnes. But it’s not like Perez is uniquely bad at this, he is slightly less bad than our other forwards. You notice it more because you expect him to do bad things and each time you see them it adds to the body of evidence to support the idea that he is shite. Nacho does the same all the time but it’s forgiven and forgotten because of his recent reputation and goal contributions. Same with Barnes. 

Actually you covered a similar point in this post, you seem to understand why fans dont like perez without looking it in the eye, fans can forgive sloppy football if there is some sort of output from it, with perez there isnt any and that's why he's disliked. Our fans like defensive work as much as anyone as well but i cant remember the last time i got excited over a perez tackle, probably newcastle 5-0 in his first season where he was actually causing the opposition cbs some trouble and got us a couple goals from it.