FT General Election Poll 2019

[Nick]

55 minutes ago, peach0000 said:

Going out to vote in a seat with a 46% majority I just couldn't help thinking what a wasted of time it was. 

Yep I’m pretty much anybody but Boris and am in Daventry district where Chris Heaton Harris won in 2017 by 20k votes! Pretty irrelevant what I do but I’ve voted anyway!

[Voll Blau]

3 hours ago, Apollo said:

We had a referendum in 2011 on whether we should change the voting system - 67% said no. Here to stay for a little while yet 

That's because the new voting system proposed was a crock of shit and a poor compromise from the Lib Dems because the Tories didn't want to let us have a crack at PR.

 

 

2 hours ago, Matt_Lcfc said:

Whether the system is FPTP does not matter in that sense. Even if you have proportional representation or AV, you’re still 1 out of millions. The constituency sizes are the problem, they have to be bigger to allow for a greater diversity of views. That isn’t the fault of FPTP.

 

A PR system with larger constituencies, whereby somewhere like Leicestershire (and Rutland) would elect 10 MPs in total rather than 10 different areas of the county electing 10 different MPs, would be better. Last time out I worked out it would have led to the county electing 6 Tories and 4 Labour (rather than 7 and 3) - but of course if that system were in play people would be more inclined to vote for minor parties, so they could easily end up winning seats needing only 10% of the county's vote.

 

In 2015, it would have been 4 Tory, 4 Labour, 1 Lib Dem and 1 UKIP - if you're interested.

[twoleftfeet]

3 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

That's because the new voting system proposed was a crock of shit and a poor compromise from the Lib Dems because the Tories didn't want to let us have a crack at PR.

 

 

 

A PR system with larger constituencies, whereby somewhere like Leicestershire (and Rutland) would elect 10 MPs in total rather than 10 different areas of the county electing 10 different MPs, would be better. Last time out I worked out it would have led to the county electing 6 Tories and 4 Labour (rather than 7 and 3) - but of course if that system were in play people would be more inclined to vote for minor parties, so they could easily end up winning seats needing only 10% of the county's vote.

 

In 2015, it would have been 4 Tory, 4 Labour, 1 Lib Dem and 1 UKIP - if you're interested.

I think PR would be great for the second chamber instead of having unelected friends of former prime ministers and those how have a say because their dad did.

[Mike Oxlong]

7 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said:

Yep I’m pretty much anybody but Boris and am in Daventry district where Chris Heaton Harris won in 2017 by 20k votes! Pretty irrelevant what I do but I’ve voted anyway!

Same for me unfortunately 

[Alf Bentley]

1 hour ago, Matt_Lcfc said:

Whether the system is FPTP does not matter in that sense. Even if you have proportional representation or AV, you’re still 1 out of millions. The constituency sizes are the problem, they have to be bigger to allow for a greater diversity of views. That isn’t the fault of FPTP.

 

I take your point to an extent: each individual/vote is a grain of sand on the beach, whatever the voting system. 

 

A great diversity of views can be EXPRESSED under FPTP, but they cannot be REPRESENTED, because there's only one winner - and that wouldn't change, whatever the constituency size.

 

I'd favour the more proportional voting system known as Single Transferable Vote (STV) in Multi-Member Constituencies. That would involve bigger constituencies, but with multiple MPs elected for each.

 

Take Leicester & Leicestershire as an example:

- Anyone voting anything other than Labour in Leicester knows, realistically, that they have zero chance of getting a candidate elected

- Anyone voting anything other than Tory in Leicestershire County (apart from Loughborough, perhaps) knows, realistically, they have zero chance of getting a candidate elected

 

The system for the European elections wasn't STV but did involve the election of multiple MEPs in a larger constituency:

- In East Midlands, anyone in city or county voting Tory, Labour, Lib Dem, Green or Brexit Party did so knowing that there WAS a chance of their vote getting a candidate elected.

(Not if they were a Cornish nationalist, Natural Law Party or Revolutionary Communist, admittedly)

 

 

[davieG]

1 hour ago, Matt_Lcfc said:

Whether the system is FPTP does not matter in that sense. Even if you have proportional representation or AV, you’re still 1 out of millions. The constituency sizes are the problem, they have to be bigger to allow for a greater diversity of views. That isn’t the fault of FPTP.

FPTP stops smaller groups from even bothering to stand, if you had this for example

 

4. STV

The Single Transferable Vote is used in Northern Ireland, Ireland, and for Scottish council elections. Under an STV system, constituencies have multiple members and voters rank candidates from one to however many they wish. STV improves proportionality, retains constituency links – and even strengthens them by offering voters a wider choice of representatives, and does not create two classes of representative, as is the case for the previous three systems.

 

You would inevitably end up with more choice and your vote would go to someone you believe in rather than one who might stop the one you don't believe in. The likely up shot is we would end up with a more balanced parliament that more genuinely reflected the views of the country. We'd more likely end up with coalitions but would that be any worse than the current intransigence of the 2 main parties. 

 

 

[Matt_Lcfc]

Both @Voll Blau and @Alf Bentley have made some good points.

i fully agree that there has to be some electoral reform. I would make constituencies a bigger size and decrease the number of MPS. The reality is 1) having 650 MPS is ridiculous 2) if you pay 74,000 per year then you won’t attract the real talent, as shown by the political landscape. Why not reduce the amount of constituencies and pay MPs more money? 

[RoboFox]

42 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said:

Yep I’m pretty much anybody but Boris and am in Daventry district where Chris Heaton Harris won in 2017 by 20k votes! Pretty irrelevant what I do but I’ve voted anyway!

 

34 minutes ago, Mike Oxlong said:

Same for me unfortunately 

My folks are both north Northants based. Tory stronghold. 

[twoleftfeet]

4 minutes ago, Matt_Lcfc said:

Both @Voll Blau and @Alf Bentley have made some good points.

i fully agree that there has to be some electoral reform. I would make constituencies a bigger size and decrease the number of MPS. The reality is 1) having 650 MPS is ridiculous 2) if you pay 74,000 per year then you won’t attract the real talent, as shown by the political landscape. Why not reduce the amount of constituencies and pay MPs more money? 

Because paying them more removes them further from the realities of every day life pay them average salaries then you would see wages rise for all

 

[Matt_Lcfc]

3 minutes ago, twoleftfeet said:

Because paying them more removes them further from the realities of every day life pay them average salaries then you would see wages rise for all

 

The pay is not the reason they are cut off from society, 75,000 is not extortionate.

It would make it harder to become a mp & with a better salary would attract a greater pool of talent. Plenty of chief executives and members of thriving companies who have a good understanding of politics and have a good leadership skills and would do a better job than this lot.

[foxy boxing]

Just voted, i agree with people saying their needs to be electoral reform. we need to make it so there are less safe seats for parties and it should be about every vote matters and not just people feeling like their vote doesn't matter because they live in a constituency that is a safe seat for the MP of whoever party.

[Alf Bentley]

14 minutes ago, Matt_Lcfc said:

Both @Voll Blau and @Alf Bentley have made some good points.

i fully agree that there has to be some electoral reform. I would make constituencies a bigger size and decrease the number of MPS. The reality is 1) having 650 MPS is ridiculous 2) if you pay 74,000 per year then you won’t attract the real talent, as shown by the political landscape. Why not reduce the amount of constituencies and pay MPs more money? 

 

I'd have no problem with MPs' pay being increased as it's a responsible job. Could maybe limit how much time they spend on other paid work, though (without banning it entirely)?

 

I know other legislatures manage to operate with fewer MPs than we have, so don't have a fundamental problem with reducing the number of MPs.

However, other countries are also less centralised than ours. More power/responsibilities are in the hands of regional or local govt. I'd support more decentralisation of power anyway, so reducing the number of MPs while increasing the powers of local/regional govt would suit me.

 

I don't think the money spent on MPs (or that would be spent if you kept 650 and increased their pay) is a big issue, though. It's peanuts compared to the overall govt spending budget.

 

Edited 12 December 2019 by Alf Bentley

[Tuna]

 

[Tuna]

Just back from voting. I'm in a seat that's been safe since it's creation but would urge anyone not sure about voting to go ahead and vote anyway.

[Alf Bentley]

Massive queues at polling stations in London: https://metro.co.uk/2019/12/12/longest-queues-ever-people-stand-line-around-block-vote-11771760/

 

Will be interesting to see whether that's replicated nationwide or is just in certain areas.....or might be partly because people don't want to go in the dark after work?

 

 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

What are the best conspiracy theories we've seen so far then? I saw someone suggesting earlier that the Conservatives had deliberately burst a water main near a polling station so that people couldn't get there to vote. 

[Manini]

6 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

Massive queues at polling stations in London: https://metro.co.uk/2019/12/12/longest-queues-ever-people-stand-line-around-block-vote-11771760/

 

Will be interesting to see whether that's replicated nationwide or is just in certain areas.....or might be partly because people don't want to go in the dark after work?

 

 

Walked past 2 In central Leeds circa 8am this morning and queues were huge. 

[ScouseFox]

hector bellerin tweeting #****boris has gone down about as well with all the arsenal fans as you'd have thought. great stuff this morning. 

[WigstonWanderer]

22 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

What are the best conspiracy theories we've seen so far then? I saw someone suggesting earlier that the Conservatives had deliberately burst a water main near a polling station so that people couldn't get there to vote. 

TBF I wouldn’t put it past them 

[Wymsey]

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/labour-leicester-east-councillors-accuse-3632626

[David Guiza]

Trying not to post much on Politics because the current outlook is depressing me, however I am really tired of seeing tweets from people I know saying something along the lines of 'can't wait for the election to be over so that people stop shoving politics down my throat'. It literally effects everything in life and many people aren't happy with the almost decade of the current mess and are entitled to challenge that and try and convince people to change. Providing they don't cross a line I really don't see a problem with that. 

 

I also don't get the 'why can't you just accept that people have different views' argument. Of course I agree with that, but at the same time if a friend/family member became uber right wing and we had different views on practically everything, then I wouldn't cling onto the friendship just because we've always been friends. When I see some of the nonsense that old school friends post, I wish I'd given up on them long before I did.

 

I love debating with politics/anything with somebody from an opposing view, I'm sure I'd happily get on with somebody like @MattP in reality, even though we are different ends of the political spectrum. What I can't stand however is ignorance and, I'm not sure if anybody else is the same, but I seem to be surrounded by it.  

 

Just now, ScouseFox said:

hector bellerin tweeting #****boris has gone down about as well with all the arsenal fans as you'd have thought. great stuff this morning. 

Practically everybody having a go at him by saying 'you shouldn't tell people who to vote for' has a timeline full of anti-Labour propaganda. The irony is amazing. 

[ealingfox]

When the Tories, led by Johnson, get their majority, what I would really like to see is actually taking some responsibility and stop blaming everyone else. The EU, "Remainers", Labour - by the end of this government they will have had 15 years and if things are still shit hold your hands up and accept some responsibility. I have always heard taking responsibility for yourself and your actions was one of the core tenets of Conservative ideology. So no more excuses and pointing the finger, just get on with it and own what you do.

 

[Darkon84]

I'd just like to say to everyone here, no matter what happens, make sure you get out there and cast your vote, and no matter what the outcome tomorrow, I hope the bickering, snide comments etc can be stopped and we can all move forward together. Either way, it's not going to be great and the best thing we can do is at least cut out the hate and move on. Peeeeeeeeeeeeeeace y'all, it's been a hell of a ride so far!

[Strokes]

7 minutes ago, Darkon84 said:

I'd just like to say to everyone here, no matter what happens, make sure you get out there and cast your vote, and no matter what the outcome tomorrow, I hope the bickering, snide comments etc can be stopped and we can all move forward together. Either way, it's not going to be great and the best thing we can do is at least cut out the hate and move on. Peeeeeeeeeeeeeeace y'all, it's been a hell of a ride so far!

F’ckin doubt it mate. It’ll get worse before it gets better in my opinion.

[Innovindil]

3 minutes ago, Strokes said:

F’ckin doubt it mate. It’ll get worse before it gets better in my opinion.

If tories win a majority tonight I just want twitter injecting straight into my veins tbh.