Corona Virus

[danny.]

On 02/04/2020 at 09:17, RumbleFox said:

I understand what you are saying and I have watched the video in full but I just can't get behind it.  I am not usually a fan of ad hominem arguments but David Icke genuinely believes in Lizard people, is a climate change denier and he's been craving something like this for a long time.  As I said, that doesn't mean he is wrong in the coronavirus case but his history of beliefs should certainly be taken into account when listening to him speak about a subject.  He has also shifted his terminology of the "elite" and now calls it the 1%.  Like religion, his words and descriptors tend to shift with advances made by other people then he fits the present to look like his predictions.  The problem with "arguing the opposite of the mainstream" is the same problem as creationists "teaching the controversy" of the Big Bang in schools.  By arguing that they should teach kids about creationism because it just offers an "alternate viewpoint from that of the mainstream" they are giving both ideas equal standing where in fact one has 0% basis in any scientific fact.  Not all controversies or "alternatives" hold equal weight or should be given your equal time.

 

Also his talk of the virus not being as serious as some claim is dangerous and irresponsible and could put people at risk of death.  I would rather listen to a doctor than a former goalkeeper and someone who claimed he was the son of God on the matter of a virus.  This is anecdotal of course but my partner's best friend's father died of corona two days ago (he was in his 60s and fairly fit) and people like Icke are putting people at risk by telling people not to believe the experts.  He knows nothing, he talks around issues and makes himself sound smarter than he is.  Sorry it drives me mad even listening to him.

 

Studies have shown people who believe conspiracy theories tend to have certain traits....... "These people tend to be more suspicious, untrusting, eccentric, needing to feel special, with a tendency to regard the world as an inherently dangerous place," ........... "They are also more likely to detect meaningful patterns where they might not exist. People who are reluctant to believe in conspiracy theories tend to have the opposite qualities." and Icke fits every one.

 

I hate the mainstream media, I think they are responsible for many of the ills in our society and they clearly do look to shape the national consciousness and lead us to think in certain ways and we should always be wary of what they tell us and read as much as we can from numerous sources.  I spend more time listening to conspiracy theorists and religious fundamentalists (I am an atheist) than I do people I agree with because I think it is important to listen to views I do not personally hold.  However I believe the danger is that many conspiracists suddenly lump in experts and scientists with "the mainstream" and start believing the world is flat or so on and I genuinely believe the current climate where experts and scientists are not believed because some guy on YouTube shouts louder than them and "knows the real truth" is dangerous.

 

Look at the anti-vaxxers, people have died because of their conspiracy bullshit.  Every scientist in the world bar about 3 states vaccines are vital yet some nobber misconstrues and misuses a half study and suddenly vaccines are evil, viruses we have not seen in 50 years reappear and children die.

 

Anyway, I should change my name to Ramblefox sorry.  Everyone should listen to conspiracies and everyone has the right to believe in them but they must understand that people will challenge them and that simply saying "you're a fool to believe the mainstream" is not a valid argument in response.  I need to go outside more, I'm a dullard in general but this current lockdown is making me even worse.  Sorry everyone.  Sorry mum.  X

 

I feel similar about Icke, I find some things he claims intriguing, went to seem him at Wembley Arena some years ago and some political observations seem to make a lot of sense, but then you get the whole Saturn is a reptilian transmitter and the moon is a spaceship that all goes a bit crazy for me. As I understand it most of his insights are from a DMT trip, which probably isn’t the most reliable of sources. 

[Guest Fktf]

On 02/04/2020 at 09:17, RumbleFox said:

I understand what you are saying and I have watched the video in full but I just can't get behind it.  I am not usually a fan of ad hominem arguments but David Icke genuinely believes in Lizard people, is a climate change denier and he's been craving something like this for a long time.  As I said, that doesn't mean he is wrong in the coronavirus case but his history of beliefs should certainly be taken into account when listening to him speak about a subject.  He has also shifted his terminology of the "elite" and now calls it the 1%.  Like religion, his words and descriptors tend to shift with advances made by other people then he fits the present to look like his predictions.  The problem with "arguing the opposite of the mainstream" is the same problem as creationists "teaching the controversy" of the Big Bang in schools.  By arguing that they should teach kids about creationism because it just offers an "alternate viewpoint from that of the mainstream" they are giving both ideas equal standing where in fact one has 0% basis in any scientific fact.  Not all controversies or "alternatives" hold equal weight or should be given your equal time.

 

Also his talk of the virus not being as serious as some claim is dangerous and irresponsible and could put people at risk of death.  I would rather listen to a doctor than a former goalkeeper and someone who claimed he was the son of God on the matter of a virus.  This is anecdotal of course but my partner's best friend's father died of corona two days ago (he was in his 60s and fairly fit) and people like Icke are putting people at risk by telling people not to believe the experts.  He knows nothing, he talks around issues and makes himself sound smarter than he is.  Sorry it drives me mad even listening to him.

 

Studies have shown people who believe conspiracy theories tend to have certain traits....... "These people tend to be more suspicious, untrusting, eccentric, needing to feel special, with a tendency to regard the world as an inherently dangerous place," ........... "They are also more likely to detect meaningful patterns where they might not exist. People who are reluctant to believe in conspiracy theories tend to have the opposite qualities." and Icke fits every one.

 

I hate the mainstream media, I think they are responsible for many of the ills in our society and they clearly do look to shape the national consciousness and lead us to think in certain ways and we should always be wary of what they tell us and read as much as we can from numerous sources.  I spend more time listening to conspiracy theorists and religious fundamentalists (I am an atheist) than I do people I agree with because I think it is important to listen to views I do not personally hold.  However I believe the danger is that many conspiracists suddenly lump in experts and scientists with "the mainstream" and start believing the world is flat or so on and I genuinely believe the current climate where experts and scientists are not believed because some guy on YouTube shouts louder than them and "knows the real truth" is dangerous.

 

Look at the anti-vaxxers, people have died because of their conspiracy bullshit.  Every scientist in the world bar about 3 states vaccines are vital yet some nobber misconstrues and misuses a half study and suddenly vaccines are evil, viruses we have not seen in 50 years reappear and children die.

 

Anyway, I should change my name to Ramblefox sorry.  Everyone should listen to conspiracies and everyone has the right to believe in them but they must understand that people will challenge them and that simply saying "you're a fool to believe the mainstream" is not a valid argument in response.  I need to go outside more, I'm a dullard in general but this current lockdown is making me even worse.  Sorry everyone.  Sorry mum.  X

 

Rambling.. Maybe.. But you're not writing a scientific report. There's some brilliant points here.

 

My biggest fear is science and experts being lumped in with the mainstream. Imagine a world where people are fed up of experts (or has that already happened??) 

 

X 

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, Fktf said:

Rambling.. Maybe.. But you're not writing a scientific report. There's some brilliant points here.

 

My biggest fear is science and experts being lumped in with the mainstream. Imagine a world where people are fed up of experts (or has that already happened??) 

 

X 

Sadly, you only have to look at climate change policy to realise that yes, that has already happened.

[leicsmac]

Anyway, some good news:

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166354220302011?fbclid=IwAR25yF-YCwPCxiIBTkKF7iAqeGsJM3Lt0KxyqApyTHmrO2Nxh1J_oiX5cKg

 

And some bad and ugly news:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-52161995

[UPinCarolina]

2 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Anyway, some good news:

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166354220302011?fbclid=IwAR25yF-YCwPCxiIBTkKF7iAqeGsJM3Lt0KxyqApyTHmrO2Nxh1J_oiX5cKg

 

And some bad and ugly news:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-52161995

That man needs to be put in stocks. Let the public have at him.

Edited 4 April 2020 by UPinCarolina

[simFox]

9 hours ago, yorkie1999 said:

Why would they though. They've seen their country become the worlds major economic super power, if that were me i'd be thinking, we must be doing something right so let's carry on eating snakes and pangolins, which by all accounts, they still are.

We all know the death rate is much higher, when your friends and loved ones are dying and you've been in constant lockdown and are fully aware of the constant coverups, whistleblowers disappearing and hero doctors dying. It might not be feeling like an economic superpower.

[StanSP]

Holy shit 

 

[whoareyaaa]

8 hours ago, pazzerfox said:

I enjoyed reading your post. 

 

I suppose it boils down to how you want to see the world (positively or negatively).  Whilst some of what David Icke says i find intriguing, he does come across bitter and that life has done him wrong and owes him a massive favour.  His latest theory claims that vaccinations will be compulsory and that we will all be injected with nano technology, which are microchips beyond what the human eye can see, which interact with 5G and satellites to manipulate humans.  Convenient with the roll out of 5G expected to be this/next year some might say.

 

There are some many conflicting stories out there, it's difficult to find the real truth that's for sure!

 

Feel free to "Ramble" some more, your posts are interesting.

 

 

 

That might explain the ID in Cov  

[reynard]

11 hours ago, murphy said:

I don't think a confrontational approach with China is wise.  What if they were sanctioned into becoming a pariah state and at great cost to the west?  They would form stronger alliances with genuine pariah states like Iran and N.Korea, maybe Russia and become the superpower of the bad guys.  No we need co operation with Beijing but things have got to change in China.

Nor do I. The effects of the pandemic are global, in terms of both human life and economies. China has suffered too. What needs to happen is global co-operation to ensure that we protect ourselves from this happening again, as far as we are able, and to ensure that all nations are far better prepared to deal with this sort of outbreak.

I know we are all worried about our own NHS but spare a moment to think about countries like India, the poor in large South American cities, many African countries and then the thousands of displaced people in refugee camps in countries such as Greece, Syria and Yemen.

I'm just reading a proof copy of a new book by Rutger Bregman called Humankind: A Hopeful History. In it he examines the premise that humans are selfish creatures. Right now we are seeing great acts of kindness. I don't think I've read a book at a more appropriate time.

to quote "The book is a plea for a more hopeful view of mankind, something that I think is desperately needed in these times."

 

Co-operation and understanding of different cultures seems key to how the world emerges from this crisis. Yes China needs to make some changes but I'm not sure the stick will work better than the carrot.

[leicsmac]

6 minutes ago, reynard said:

Nor do I. The effects of the pandemic are global, in terms of both human life and economies. China has suffered too. What needs to happen is global co-operation to ensure that we protect ourselves from this happening again, as far as we are able, and to ensure that all nations are far better prepared to deal with this sort of outbreak.

I know we are all worried about our own NHS but spare a moment to think about countries like India, the poor in large South American cities, many African countries and then the thousands of displaced people in refugee camps in countries such as Greece, Syria and Yemen.

I'm just reading a proof copy of a new book by Rutger Bregman called Humankind: A Hopeful History. In it he examines the premise that humans are selfish creatures. Right now we are seeing great acts of kindness. I don't think I've read a book at a more appropriate time.

to quote "The book is a plea for a more hopeful view of mankind, something that I think is desperately needed in these times."

 

Co-operation and understanding of different cultures seems key to how the world emerges from this crisis. Yes China needs to make some changes but I'm not sure the stick will work better than the carrot.

..or indeed any crisis.

 

Unfortunately, a great deal of the powerful and those who put them into power haven't got that message because they think that Might Makes Right for as long as they are alive and that's all they care about.

[murphy]

7 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Anyway, some good news:

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166354220302011?fbclid=IwAR25yF-YCwPCxiIBTkKF7iAqeGsJM3Lt0KxyqApyTHmrO2Nxh1J_oiX5cKg

 

And some bad and ugly news:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-52161995

We used to use ivermectin in wildlife rehab for foxes with mange. 

 

Quite a powerful drug though, you couldn't just give it to them straight away, you had to give them supportive care to build them up first to withstand the parasitic die off and because it was such a potent drug.  

 

I think it is better tolerated in humans though.

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, murphy said:

We used to use ivermectin in wildlife rehab for foxes with mange. 

 

Quite a powerful drug though, you couldn't just give it to them straight away, you had to give them supportive care to build them up first to withstand the parasitic die off and because it was such a potent drug.  

 

I think it is better tolerated in humans though.

Interesting, thank you.

 

Having something like this as a stopgap while a vaccine is synthesised and tested would help enormously, if it were effective. Especially if it turns out Covid is here to stay.

[January47]

Interesting report coming out of university in Italy estimating the number of people in Italy who have had symptoms could be as high as 5 million and numbers infected could be as high as 20 million

A lot of coulda and maybes though. Won’t really know till there’s an antibody test.

[davieG]

https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1246358936585986048/photo/1

 

Boris Johnson #StayHomeSaveLives

 

@BorisJohnson

 

I have written to all leaders of opposition parties to invite them to work together at this moment of national emergency.

 

[Foxxed]

On 29/03/2020 at 22:29, Countryfox said:

Maybe Up the League Fox was wrong to post voting stuff but pleeeeese let’s not keep bringing Boris into this !! ....  I get the finger pointing at China who held back on passing information to the rest of the world ...   or at Charlie Chan (name changed to maintain his anonymity) who decided to have a pangolin for supper ....  but Boris ! ..  who is trying his best and basically following the advice of the experts !! ...  give it a rest !   He’s only just stopped being attacked cus we had floods ! ...   that was his fault too !   I despair !
 

I sincerely hope your friend makes a speedy and full recovery from this heartbreaking illness that clogs your lungs till you die ...   unlike my friend who has already succumbed to it ...   and let’s all stay united and pitch in together to get through it.   

You think it's wrong to criticise the Prime Minister because of his actions?

  

On 29/03/2020 at 21:59, Beechey said:

I've seen this kind of thing a lot and am trying to find a source for it, do you know where I can find it?

Herd Immunity. The idea the more people get it the more will be become immune, and the fast it will go. It's true except it will kill thousands of people in the meantime. Your mother, gran and those 30 year old NHS nurses with no underlying issues, for example.

 

A staunch Tory on the main forum said he'd be honoured if he caught it because of what Boris tweeted. Right next to a guy saying if he caught it his lungs would pack in completely.

[ithuriel]

We need to stay friends with the Chinese, over time they have mellowed from what they were and interacting with the west means we continue to influence them, this Pandemic is bound to have major consequences inside their country too and we want them to be as positive as possible.

If you are going to change someone you do not build walls and hurl insults.

[leicsmac]

12 minutes ago, ithuriel said:

We need to stay friends with the Chinese, over time they have mellowed from what they were and interacting with the west means we continue to influence them, this Pandemic is bound to have major consequences inside their country too and we want them to be as positive as possible.

If you are going to change someone you do not build walls and hurl insults.

But, but, muh "human nature" and "good fences make good neighbours"...

[ithuriel]

 

[The Horse's Mouth]

https://twitter.com/DawkinsReturns/status/1246271705447829504?s=20 hahahshshahahahahahahah

[The Horse's Mouth]

24 minutes ago, ithuriel said:

We need to stay friends with the Chinese, over time they have mellowed from what they were and interacting with the west means we continue to influence them, this Pandemic is bound to have major consequences inside their country too and we want them to be as positive as possible.

If you are going to change someone you do not build walls and hurl insults.

If they pay what they owe

[Beechey]

36 minutes ago, Foxxed said:

 

Herd Immunity. The idea the more people get it the more will be become immune, and the fast it will go. It's true except it will kill thousands of people in the meantime. Your mother, gran and those 30 year old NHS nurses with no underlying issues, for example.

 

A staunch Tory on the main forum said he'd be honoured if he caught it because of what Boris tweeted. Right next to a guy saying if he caught it his lungs would pack in completely.

I know what it is, I'm trying to look for a citation on the claim that Boris Johnson said to "go out and get it".

[Paninistickers]

18 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

If they pay what they owe

You can influence that. 

 

Buy UK made stuff. Or at least, refuse to buy Chinese tat. In that way, they pay. No more haemorrhaging of money to enrich factory owners over there.

[Kopfkino]

Just now, Paninistickers said:

You can influence that. 

 

Buy UK made stuff. Or at least, refuse to buy Chinese tat. In that way, they pay. No more haemorrhaging of money to enrich factory owners over there.

How do you know where everything in the supply chain has come from?

[leicsmac]

5 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

How do you know where everything in the supply chain has come from?

...all so easy to simply say 'build British, buy British" rather than considering the nuances of the situation, isn't it?

 

For what it's worth I'm hoping that one day technology advances will mean that a great many items and foodstuffs can be created on demand "locally", but we're certainly a ways away from that yet.

[Lionator]

2 hours ago, January47 said:

Interesting report coming out of university in Italy estimating the number of people in Italy who have had symptoms could be as high as 5 million and numbers infected could be as high as 20 million

A lot of coulda and maybes though. Won’t really know till there’s an antibody test.

Do you have a link to that? Would be an interesting read.