Corona Virus

[yorkie1999]

7 minutes ago, blabyboy said:

The tests they bought were found to be less than effective that they thought.

 

Easy to setup polling stations when you have done it plenty of times before. Procurring working tests for a novel virus, not so easy, then training enough ppl quickly to do it, then hoping they don't get sick before the day, logistics of storing, transporting tests.

So the reason not to do something like that is effort. With a possible vaccine not being available for about a year, and then we don’t know if it will be successful, we’ve got 2 choices, stay in lockdown forever, or separate those who have it/had it from those who haven’t and the only way to do that is test everyone.

[davieG]

6 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

I get the feeling that it won’t be long before people will be clammering for the lock down to finish...   or know exactly when it will finish.   They hear what other countries are doing and it’s a case of  ‘well why can’t we do that’ ...   unfortunately we are all on different paths and at the moment there is no definitive right or wrong way ...   I mention this as I think it could easily become a problem and lead to civil unrest. 

There's nothing I can see about our situation that makes me consider for a second finishing the lockdown on any level. I don't understand why so many people seem to be so unconcerned if not for themselves their families, friends and colleagues.

[The whole world smiles]

53 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Can we drop all the blue vs. red politics for a bit? I come in here to hopefully read about some clever Dr creating a vaccine, not to see pointless politics talk. I'm not having a go at anyone but it's not the time for it (IMO of course).

I agree with this. The thread should be about the virus. And also as a nation we should be trying to come together.

 

However if like me you have felt passionately about austerity and trying to protect and invest in the NHS for years it's hard not to feel angry about our response compared to other countries who have invested in health care not see this as a political issue.

 

I guess what I'm saying is yes let's stick a pin in it politically and get through it but hopefully there will be a deep inquest into all of this and hopefully we will be doing more as a nation than clapping nurses. Hopefully we will actually be paying them properly and investing into a desperately underfunded service.

 

 

[Guest Kopfkino]

54 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Can we drop all the blue vs. red politics for a bit? I come in here to hopefully read about some clever Dr creating a vaccine, not to see pointless politics talk. I'm not having a go at anyone but it's not the time for it (IMO of course).

 

But what about Diane Abbott, like if Diane Abbott did a thing then there'd be a pile in on here of Diane Abbott proportions. If Diane Abbott had gone to Cheltenham then all the blue boys would want to ban all six thousand three hundred and seventy thousand horses because Diane Abbott. And if Diane Abbott hadn't banned Stereophonics, well the headlines would be 'Devil Abbott' cos Diane Abbott. And like also Diane Abbott has done a vaccine but Rupert Murdoch hates Diane Abbott so the Diane Abbott vaccine has been hidden away. If Priti Patel had done that she'd be made Queen but Diane Abbott isn't allowed to be Queen Diane cos MattP. 

 

Basically you wouldn't be saying it's pointless if it was all a Diane Abbott pile-in. WHAT ABOUT DIANE ABBOTT? 

[Countryfox]

9 minutes ago, blabyboy said:

Stress (along with exercise) is a major factor in immune system health. The good ppl in the nhs are in a very stressful environment, working often longer hours then they should do. They then leave and enter another stressful environment that is the world around them. That's going to deplete their immunity over time. Add to that environment a virus that is currently unstoppable and i would expect to see more casualties in that workforce.

 

A secondary question. When the vaccine arrives, would you take it, given the speed with which it is developed?

That’s last remark about testing is very valid ...   personally I think it should be given to Forest fans first and if all’s well after a week or two then given to the rest of us.  If there is the slightest concern then a further test should be carried out on (say) ..   Derby fans ... 

[StanSP]

1 minute ago, Kopfkino said:

 

But what about Diane Abbott, like if Diane Abbott did a thing then there'd be a pile in on here of Diane Abbott proportions. If Diane Abbott had gone to Cheltenham then all the blue boys would want to ban all six thousand three hundred and seventy thousand horses because Diane Abbott. And if Diane Abbott hadn't banned Stereophonics, well the headlines would be 'Devil Abbott' cos Diane Abbott. And like also Diane Abbott has done a vaccine but Rupert Murdoch hates Diane Abbott so the Diane Abbott vaccine has been hidden away. If Priti Patel had done that she'd be made Queen but Diane Abbott isn't allowed to be Queen Diane cos MattP. 

 

Basically you wouldn't be saying it's pointless if it was all a Diane Abbott pile-in. WHAT ABOUT DIANE ABBOTT? 

u ok?

[Countryfox]

1 minute ago, StanSP said:

u ok?

Ive heard they do an Easter egg full of Bushmills ...

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Can we drop all the blue vs. red politics for a bit? I come in here to hopefully read about some clever Dr creating a vaccine, not to see pointless politics talk. I'm not having a go at anyone but it's not the time for it (IMO of course).

Agreed, fair enough.

 

Except Trump. He can and should carry the can for what's happening Stateside all the way to getting wiped out into ignominious obscurity in November.

[String fellow]

Personally, I don't think civil unrest is likely if the lock-down continues for a while. The main reason is that such things would involve gatherings of people, and for their own safety, that's precisely what people shouldn't be doing. 

[st albans fox]

There was a poll on sky this morning that showed the U.K. top of the charts for being prepared to accept lockdown @ 95%
 

Funnily enough the Germans were quite a way down at 82% which is strange considering that they always seemed to come up with the excuse they ‘were only following orders’ ! 

[Foxin_Mad]

15 minutes ago, davieG said:

There's nothing I can see about our situation that makes me consider for a second finishing the lockdown on any level. I don't understand why so many people seem to be so unconcerned if not for themselves their families, friends and colleagues.

I think the concern of the long term impact of the lockdown also has to be considered.

 

We can keep doing this for a year - sure. The government will spend millions on welfare, a pretty much the whole country will be unemployed in a years time. There will be no non food retail or leisure industry, most small and medium business will be bankrupt, shopping centres empty, landlords unpaid, and no money in the economy for the few that do survive.

 

The impact of this is profound, many hundreds of thousands would die from mental health/suicide. There could be mass civil unrest as people who have lost everything  are dangerous. Are we not concerned for this/them?

 

The only solution to a long lockdown is to suck up the unemployment, failing business etc and hope they will return 'one day' and for the government to pay every unemployed citizen a UBI of 30k a year - for a undefined period until employment returns - to ensure people dont lose homes, lifestyles - how do they afford that with little tax income?

 

The problem is far bigger than now. I also see little evidence the lockdown is achieving much yet anyway. Italy still has a high number of infections/deaths a month on. What gives?

[Countryfox]

13 minutes ago, String fellow said:

Personally, I don't think civil unrest is likely if the lock-down continues for a while. The main reason is that such things would involve gatherings of people, and for their own safety, that's precisely what people shouldn't be doing. 

I agree but I think things may change very quickly ..   I don’t think the press are helping ...

 

 

[UniFox21]

48 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

 

Yeah it seems a bit weird to go with a comparative 'analysis' based on two countries that speak the same language, are next door to each other and have similar critical care capacity but to just ignore a significant difference in population density. Why not compare the UK with similar high density countries, given that's an actual variable that matters and shared language and history less so? What about the fact that London is a significant global city and Dublin isn't. Its as if nobody has heard of omitted variable bias. 

 

We need less of these wanky, half-arsed comparative analyses disguised as smart examination. For sure, Ireland has most likely 'done better' than the UK at this stage cos it acted quicker to suppress but that really simple summation takes a handful of words not a heap of tweets pretending to be more grandiose. 

Exactly this tbh. You can't sum up the potential random transmission events with an average. She's done bullshit comparisons that to many will seem in depth as she's used some numbers. It can start spreading panic and fear through a country at a time where it isn't needed. 

 

Now isn't the time to point fingers, that can be done when this has passed and deep evaluating can be done. Frankly I'm sick of the half hearted comparisons or bullshit analysis we see lately. 

[Beechey]

May god have mercy on our student loan interest rates if the Bank of England prints to allow the government to spend.

[nnfox]

9 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

I agree but I think things may change very quickly ..   I don’t think the press are helping ...

 

 

The press don't help at all. This is a case of lining the government up to take a swipe at them in the future.  The government, quite rightly, won't say what the exit strategy is, mainly because it is unknown! If they say something and don't follow it through they get accused of U-turns and failings; if they don't say anything then they get accused of not having a plan!

[Foxin_Mad]

6 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

I agree but I think things may change very quickly ..   I don’t think the press are helping ...

 

 

The press are scoundrels.

 

I think the more people lose the more likely civil disobedience and unrest will become.

 

Now it's ok, the government has fudged peoples finances for a few months with made up money, people are generally happy to sit around doing nothing and getting paid 80%, sadly that cant continue long term. Something gives at some point.

[Jon the Hat]

10 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

I agree but I think things may change very quickly ..   I don’t think the press are helping ...

 

 

Press criticises government for not learning from other countries, demands Government reveal plans before other countries so when government changes plans later based on experience of countries weeks ahead of us they can scream U-turn.

[Jon the Hat]

3 minutes ago, nnfox said:

The press don't help at all. This is a case of lining the government up to take a swipe at them in the future.  The government, quite rightly, won't say what the exit strategy is, mainly because it is unknown! If they say something and don't follow it through they get accused of U-turns and failings; if they don't say anything then they get accused of not having a plan!

Great minds etc

[Stivo]

1 hour ago, January47 said:

Be careful of conclusions drawn from this data. For example most cases so far have been in London and the West Midlands where that ethnic profile may be present in the general population there.

Also I'd guess that most people are above recommended BMIs so would need to compare against the wider population profile.

 For any data you always need to compare against the relevant control.

I think it quite poor they have released this data without doing that as most people would jump to conculsions.

Spot on, the icnarc report which this all comes from has a figure 6 which  corrects the bmi figure to represent the age and sex profile of the sample.  This suggests that overweight people who are not obese are in fact below the proportion expected!!  Being morbidly obese is definitely bad.

 

Similarly figure 5 corrects the ethnic proportion for the postcode ( it isn’t clear whether this is the reporting hospital, the patient or the hospital catchment area). Anyway the correction suggests that Asian ethnicity is in about the right proportion but black and other ethnicity do seem greatly over represented.

 

These two figures aren’t very clear as they use a poorly chosen mix of llines and bars and seem to have been ignored when jumping to conclusions.

 

[Toddybad]

16 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Press criticises government for not learning from other countries, demands Government reveal plans before other countries so when government changes plans later based on experience of countries weeks ahead of us they can scream U-turn.

Governments should be less press led in general. It's given rise to a mad rush for decisions - which are often then bad decisions- simply to respond to 24hr news.

 

And people are too quick to look at things in a black and white way.

 

Surely the middle ground is the best? It would be useful for people to have some idea of how government sees this moving forward - depending on whether there is actually any consensus at the moment - without them having to be definitive. Just a general outline of the possibilities and what might trigger them - eg we would like to relax sector by sector but first we need to see hospital admissions drop by 80%, if this doesn't happen in the next 2/3 weeks then we may need to tighten things in the short term (I've entirely made this up so no point focusing on this bit as it isn't intended to be accurate).

 

 

[st albans fox]

Civil unrest here ?   I won’t believe it until I’ve seen it first in France ........ of course we could see some use this as an excuse for rioting in some inner cities but those would simply be using the situation as cover for what they’d like to do anyway ! 

[Foxin_Mad]

2 minutes ago, Toddybad said:

 

Surely the middle ground is the best? It would be useful for people to have some idea of how government sees this moving forward - depending on whether there is actually any consensus at the moment - without them having to be definitive. Just a general outline of the possibilities and what might trigger them - eg we would like to relax sector by sector but first we need to see hospital admissions drop by 80%, if this doesn't happen in the next 2/3 weeks then we may need to tighten things in the short term (I've entirely made this up so no point focusing on this bit as it isn't intended to be accurate).

 

 

This....I think the uncertainty and apparent lack of a plan how to end this is worrying.

 

We cant stay locked up for 12-18 months, if we do Coronavirus is the least of our problems.

 

Give us a timeline, explain it's not definitive and it may change if people dont comply or the figures suggest deviation is needed, if it has to change so be it. I think people will accept this is unprecedented so the situation will keep evolving.

[UpTheLeagueFox]

5 hours ago, Carl the Llama said:

That's not really what we're doing though, one side is comparing how the different parties would respond and the other side is making it Abbot-fest 2020 where all the people jumping in to explain why they're justified to hate Abbott and list off all her gaffes is only reinforcing the initial point about double standards in apparent 'values'.  It's unbelievable lack of awareness tbh.

 

5 hours ago, Strokes said:

I’ve thought this for a while, as soon as there is a sniff that she can be got at, it’s like a pack of wolves. Shameful really.

The point was more about what I was seeing on Twitter re the comparison.

As it goes, I don't think the abuse of Abbott's gaffes are essentially based in sexist or racist tones and the same goes for Patel.

They've both proved to be fairly woeful and that's because they've been fairly woeful and nothing else.

[Foxin_Mad]

3 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Civil unrest here ?   I won’t believe it until I’ve seen it first in France ........ of course we could see some use this as an excuse for rioting in some inner cities but those would simply be using the situation as cover for what they’d like to do anyway ! 

The more time this goes on, people go stir crazy, lose their jobs, homes and lifestyles it becomes more likely. It's the rat backed into a corner theory - people with nothing to lose become more dangerous.

[yorkie1999]

1 hour ago, blabyboy said:

Stress (along with exercise) is a major factor in immune system health. The good ppl in the nhs are in a very stressful environment, working often longer hours then they should do. They then leave and enter another stressful environment that is the world around them. That's going to deplete their immunity over time. Add to that environment a virus that is currently unstoppable and i would expect to see more casualties in that workforce.

 

A secondary question. When the vaccine arrives, would you take it, given the speed with which it is developed?

Sleep is one of the most important things in building up your immune system.