Corona Virus

[los dedos]

Just now, murphy said:

Just looked it up.  You're right.  I thought you were joking.  

 

Feel a bit foolish now.  No alien invasion.  Back to the pestilence and death. 

 

As you were.

There is a meteor shower over the next few days. Thought it might be that ?

[jammie82uk]

1 hour ago, pds said:

Anyone aware of any shops that have delivery slots or is it still backed up for weeks?

 

Having everyone at home the cupboards are emptying at an alarming rate! Sorted the kids dinner earlier then realised all we had left was a few tins of Alphabetti so I've had that on toast tonight!

The press are saying There’s apparently a website that will look for you http://www.shoppingslot.co.uk and email you when there is a free slot but I haven’t been able to get on the site 

[st albans fox]

27 minutes ago, bovril said:

Government response to Sunday Times article:

https://healthmedia.blog.gov.uk/2020/04/19/response-to-sunday-times-insight-article/

so we had lots of meetings and even a webinar .............. very surprised to see a response put  together on a Sunday ......... we don’t usually see replies to newspaper articles ......

[jammie82uk]

15 minutes ago, murphy said:

Just been in the garden and there are dozens of lights like satellites in the sky, very high up all following the same arcing trajectory.  Never seen anythin like it.  It's the alien invasion.  I told you!

Just seen that myself I counted 14 in a line following the same course they are starlink satellites

[whoareyaaa]

8 minutes ago, murphy said:

Just looked it up.  You're right.  I thought you were joking.  

 

https://www.space.com/spacex-starlink-satellites-spotted-night-sky-video.html

 

Feel a bit foolish now.  No alien invasion.  Back to the pestilence and death. 

 

As you were.

 

 

 just seen 3 of them 2 almost smashed into each other from diff directions

[murphy]

Just now, jammie82uk said:

Just seen that myself I counted 14 in a line following the same course they are starlink satellites

Yes, I know that now.  I hadn't heard about this.  Apparently he's going to put 12.000 up there.  Increasing the toal number of satellites 6 fold.

 

You must have caught the tail end of it because there must have been 50 odd.

 

Apparently they will be back tomorrow night 21:58 pm look from weat to east.

 

Apologies for going ot.

[jammie82uk]

5 minutes ago, murphy said:

Yes, I know that now.  I hadn't heard about this.  Apparently he's going to put 12.000 up there.  Increasing the toal number of satellites 6 fold.

 

You must have caught the tail end of it because there must have been 50 odd.

 

Apparently they will be back tomorrow night 21:58 pm look from weat to east.

 

Apologies for going ot.

Got permission for 12,000 they want 40,000 up there tho apparently it’s to provide broadband 

Edited 19 April 2020 by jammie82uk

[whoareyaaa]

1 minute ago, jammie82uk said:

Got permission for 12,000 they want 40,000 up there tho apparently it’s to provide broadband 

Starlink is a satellite constellation being constructed by American company SpaceX to provide satellite Internet access. The constellation will consist of thousands of mass-produced small satellites in low Earth orbit, working in combination with ground transceivers. Wikipedia

 

the transceivers are probably the 5g 

 

[yorkie1999]

they'll be over again at about 11pm

[Collymore]

12 minutes ago, jammie82uk said:

Just seen that myself I counted 14 in a line following the same course they are starlink satellites

They're the 5G ones, right? (No joke)

[yorkie1999]

99 red balloons go by!

[Izzy]

13 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

 just seen 3 of them 2 almost smashed into each other from diff directions

[jammie82uk]

10 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

Starlink is a satellite constellation being constructed by American company SpaceX to provide satellite Internet access. The constellation will consist of thousands of mass-produced small satellites in low Earth orbit, working in combination with ground transceivers. Wikipedia

 

the transceivers are probably the 5g 

 

 

7 minutes ago, Collymore said:

They're the 5G ones, right? (No joke)

possibly, they do state they are for global broadband 

[murphy]

Playing havoc with NASA's observatories apparently.

 

 

 

Telescopes at Lowell Observatory in Arizona captured this image of galaxies on May 25, their images marred by the reflected light from more than 25 Starlink satellites as they passed overhead. 

[yorkie1999]

21 minutes ago, murphy said:

Playing havoc with NASA's observatories apparently.

 

 

 

Telescopes at Lowell Observatory in Arizona captured this image of galaxies on May 25, their images marred by the reflected light from more than 25 Starlink satellites as they passed overhead. 

obviously this has nothing to do with this thread but he's the time tracker

https://www.satflare.com/track.asp?q=starlink#TOP

[CosbehFox]

Strange times even the Daily Mail having a dig tomorrow. 400k items of PPE arriving late 

[davieG]

9 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Strange times even the Daily Mail having a dig tomorrow. 400k items of PPE arriving late 

They’re bored with and have exhausted all the good stories now they’re looking for scapegoats and people to take down.

 

It’s the formula the British media work too. 

[Mike Oxlong]

First I’ve really seen of Gavin Williamson today when he did the daily briefing. Struck me as a bit oily and the recipient of some really bad elocution lessons. 

[VLC86]

1 hour ago, pds said:

Apparently not available for my location.

The supermarket delivery situation seems to be getting better. I got a click and collect at ASDA and was able to change to delivery for this week and got a Tesco delivery last week. Keep checking.

[SemperEadem]

 

[Guest Fktf]

1 hour ago, Desabafar said:

does anybody know if government went against its scientific advisors anytime? if not the blame is on the scientists advising the government

We hear about 'the science' from govt ministers all the time, but there's not one clear path identified by science. Plenty of scientists (including me) implored the govt to take lockdown measures earlier, but the govt took the advice of other scientists that (at least in my opinion, but others will disagree) wanted to follow a managed herd immunity strategy. 

 

To be honest, I feel a bit sorry for politicians. Imagine being in a position where one group of scientists are telling you 'lock the country down immediately, until we get a vaccine in 18-24 months time', and another group of scientists saying 'we can keep the country going as normal, and we'll achieve a herd immunity in the same period of time'. Seems like a no-brainer to go with the option that keeps the economy functioning.. 

 

At some point some scientist had the idea of herd immunity, and managed to convince a group of scientists this was a possible management strategy for us, and this group of people got the ear of the govt. But having seen what happened in Italy, this group should have immediately recognised their idea was a bust. 

 

This is a very long post to say I agree with you! My anger isn't with the politicians, it's with the scientists that abandoned the first principle of any dangerous unknown. Be cautious. Be (ironically?) as conservative as possible. 

 

 

Edited 19 April 2020 by Fktf

[Leicester_Loyal]

2 hours ago, bovril said:

Government response to Sunday Times article:

https://healthmedia.blog.gov.uk/2020/04/19/response-to-sunday-times-insight-article/

Wow! Not often you see the actual Government responding to newspaper articles!

[Kopfkino]

40 minutes ago, Fktf said:

We hear about 'the science' from govt ministers all the time, but there's not one clear path identified by science. Plenty of scientists (including me) implored the govt to take lockdown measures earlier, but the govt took the advice of other scientists that (at least in my opinion, but others will disagree) wanted to follow a managed herd immunity strategy. 

 

To be honest, I feel a bit sorry for politicians. Imagine being in a position where one group of scientists are telling you 'lock the country down immediately, until we get a vaccine in 18-24 months time', and another group of scientists saying 'we can keep the country going as normal, and we'll achieve a herd immunity in the same period of time'. Seems like a no-brainer to go with the option that keeps the economy functioning.. 

 

At some point some scientist had the idea of herd immunity, and managed to convince a group of scientists this was a possible management strategy for us, and this group of people got the ear of the govt. But having seen what happened in Italy, this group should have immediately recognised their idea was a bust. 

 

This is a very long post to say I agree with you! My anger isn't with the politicians, it's with the scientists that abandoned the first principle of any dangerous unknown. Be cautious. Be (ironically?) as conservative as possible. 

 

 

Isnt the point of democratic societies that elected officials, particularly with the UK's system of government and elections, are accountable for what are still political decisions? This isn't Sweden where control of the response is actually formally delegated elsewhere. I'm not particularly keen on blaming the politicians, either individually or collectively, but it does seem to me that it was set up early to be easy to pass the buck to the scientists advising the government and avoid making tough political decisions. 

[leicsmac]

The UK might be having some problems with PPE supply, but it could be worse:

 

 

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/04/hospitals-face-a-white-house-blockade-for-coronavirus-ppe.html

 

Where, exactly, was the Feeb looking to take that paid-for PPE? My guess would be a red state, simply because the Trump admin knows that rural states will get hit hard in some time because they've avoided/are avoiding lockdowns for political reasons, and so they're "requisitioning" the supplies to try and keep the hospitals in red states supplied when people start dying, again for political reasons to make it seem like the virus is just a city problem.

 

Reward the states that support you, punish those that oppose you, even in matters of life and death.

[WigstonWanderer]

4 hours ago, Fktf said:

We hear about 'the science' from govt ministers all the time, but there's not one clear path identified by science. Plenty of scientists (including me) implored the govt to take lockdown measures earlier, but the govt took the advice of other scientists that (at least in my opinion, but others will disagree) wanted to follow a managed herd immunity strategy. 

 

To be honest, I feel a bit sorry for politicians. Imagine being in a position where one group of scientists are telling you 'lock the country down immediately, until we get a vaccine in 18-24 months time', and another group of scientists saying 'we can keep the country going as normal, and we'll achieve a herd immunity in the same period of time'. Seems like a no-brainer to go with the option that keeps the economy functioning.. 

 

At some point some scientist had the idea of herd immunity, and managed to convince a group of scientists this was a possible management strategy for us, and this group of people got the ear of the govt. But having seen what happened in Italy, this group should have immediately recognised their idea was a bust. 

 

This is a very long post to say I agree with you! My anger isn't with the politicians, it's with the scientists that abandoned the first principle of any dangerous unknown. Be cautious. Be (ironically?) as conservative as possible. 

 

 

Good summary. I like your term “managed herd immunity” to describe the government’s initial strategy. My own feeble attempts to explain this seemed to cause more confusion than anything and got a load of people’s backs up . This is a much better phrase to use.
 

In your opinion, are the government still following a managed herd immunity strategy? In my view it seems unlikely. Seems likely that once this phase is over from peak or trough, up to 10m people could have been infected and that’s probably a wild overestimate. This would have to be repeated several times to get much effect as regards herd immunity and that’s assuming that infected/recovered people become immune for a lengthy period, for which there appears to be some doubt.

 

The alternative strategy would appear to be be suppression followed by test, trace and isolate. This is what has so far been so successful in South Korea and seems to now be what is intended for us here in Australia, and what I personally had hoped for after reading the Hammer and Dance article.

 

I think it’s now what the UK government would like to do, but are faced with multiple difficulties of testing capacity and an impatient population. Being slow to lock down in the first place due to the initial strategy has meant a much longer and deeper crisis, making it more difficult to switch to test and trace. A bit like the old Irish joke, “If I was goin there I wouldn’t start from here”.

Edited 20 April 2020 by WigstonWanderer